Junior Adventurer's Guild - January: Gothic

[rusty_shackleford]

And so it ends.
Though it had some issues, this is certainly a game I am glad to have played. It had that certain "closeness" of the many characters that made it feel both cozy and memorable, both the game and the characters themselves, for me. I really liked the progression with the skill points and hunting for better armor, the different trainers, etc, and how you could slowly fight your way up the "food chain", so to speak (I already fondly recall how the Scavengers, who I call "turkeys", used to kill me and how I would dread them during exploration XD ). The world felt alive, and I really loved the little details those that made this game put in. The idle animations for example (like the mages randomly failing a spell and setting their robes on fire XD ). For how many little things there were, and different ways to do things, I am left unsure if I cut through part of the story, or if it was cut content, or if it was content meant for members of another camp (I, for example, teleported to the circle of the Mages of Fire and met a guy with a name like Bartholo that had an inventory full of lutes ), this to say, I noticed there is a lot to do, even if the ending might remain the same (if there even is just one ending, I wouldn't be surprised if there are several). I myself played in German with English subtitles, and I really liked the voice acting and how it could be silly and make jokes, even poke fun at its own system and dialogue without becoming a bad "comedy" like other games (like "long, long ago..." and the main character cuts him short after yet another long story after he heard several already XD I am glad we got to hear the story regardless of the character's interruption ), as with Deus Ex, though I am unsure if I am just seeing things, it felt like those that made this game had a lot of fun making it, regardless of the, in the end, cut things, and that, I believe, give this game all the charm that I like so much. I also noticed it had some systems that I would say were pretty advanced, like the water currents.
This all said, not sure if it's intended, but Gothic crashed one last time for me after the credits ended, and I found that to be already quite nostalgic in a beautiful way. Thank you once more for hosting these monthly game sessions @Oyster Sauce

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The Sleeper bugged out of the circle for me, as you can see. I also had one Novice left alive as I wished to have a witness he did not attack me
I am also deeply sad Cor Kalom had to die, I really liked the guy

Stats if needed (realized I had a lot of potions while fiddling with Telekinesis, so my Strength and other stats skyrocketed, especially because of the mummies in the chambers near the Sleeper's statue at the entrance).

Beginning of the credits when I recalled I should probably take a screen before I decided to take the above after reloading on my latest save.

One last thing, if I may. What happened to the Necromancer? (I call him by his class as I keep mixing his name up and I either call him Xarxes or Xander) Was he unwell after the spell, or did he die? It felt strange for him to appear and just keel over suddenly. If it's found out or explained in the later games, do not tell me, as the main character did say in the cinematic that "is another story", which I am eager to play in the future

Xardas appears in the next game.

[DagothGeas5]

I forgot to say, I also loved how it was optional to kill people in this game. Before getting the sword that could kill cultists I had never killed any humans the whole game (Gorn was a mass murderer in the Free Mine, even wanting to kill Diggers, though I am not sure I could have progressed without him killing where I, instead, spared). It felt like it mattered. Are there any other games that have this sort of a "weight", so to speak, added to the human NPCs aside from Deus Ex? The only one that comes to mind is Assassin's Creed, but those I played were nothing close to in depth for this mechanic.

[Finarfin]

Reeeee, don't hurt Gorn, he's your bro, along with Milten, Lester, Diego, Lee and Lares

[DagothGeas5]

Reeeee, don't hurt Gorn, he's your bro, along with Milten, Lester, Diego, Lee and Lares

Gorn is safe and sound like everyone else in my game don't you worry I even only beat up those that attacked first (and the guy occupying the shack) even though it would have given me experience to do otherwise

[rusty_shackleford]

I forgot to say, I also loved how it was optional to kill people in this game. Before getting the sword that could kill cultists I had never killed any humans the whole game (Gorn was a mass murderer in the Free Mine, even wanting to kill Diggers, though I am not sure I could have progressed without him killing where I, instead, spared). It felt like it mattered. Are there any other games that have this sort of a "weight", so to speak, added to the human NPCs aside from Deus Ex? The only one that comes to mind is Assassin's Creed, but those I played were nothing close to in depth for this mechanic.

Gothic 2 is just Gothic: But More! with higher quality.
There's also Archolos which is free for anyone who owns Gothic 2, it's a very good fanmade game in the Gothic 2 engine/style.


Make sure to grab the Polish VA. I assume you can't understand it, but that's fine, it sounds like one of those fantasy languages anyways. Just adds atmosphere.

[DagothGeas5]

I forgot to say, I also loved how it was optional to kill people in this game. Before getting the sword that could kill cultists I had never killed any humans the whole game (Gorn was a mass murderer in the Free Mine, even wanting to kill Diggers, though I am not sure I could have progressed without him killing where I, instead, spared). It felt like it mattered. Are there any other games that have this sort of a "weight", so to speak, added to the human NPCs aside from Deus Ex? The only one that comes to mind is Assassin's Creed, but those I played were nothing close to in depth for this mechanic.

Gothic 2 is just Gothic: But More! with higher quality.
There's also Archolos which is free for anyone who owns Gothic 2, it's a very good fanmade game in the Gothic 2 engine/style.

Don't you worry, I remember the list you gave me to play Wanted to wait for the Adventurer's Guild to go ahead, but, I have to say, I am really itching to see more of this game

[Finarfin]

Reeeee, don't hurt Gorn, he's your bro, along with Milten, Lester, Diego, Lee and Lares

Gorn is safe and sound like everyone else in my game don't you worry I even only beat up those that attacked first (and the guy occupying the shack) even though it would have given me experience to do otherwise

You were nicer than me. When I got the Improved Ore Armor and Uriziel I killed everyone in the old camp, even thorus tasted defeat.

[Oyster Sauce]

Was there a point to the endgame quest where you tell the Big 4 to meet up at their special place? I don't remember a followup and I never saw them again.

[Finarfin]

Was there a point to the endgame quest where you tell the Big 4 to meet up at their special place? I don't remember a followup and I never saw them again.

That's just a nice quest that adds to the atmosphere of the game.

[DagothGeas5]

Was there a point to the endgame quest where you tell the Big 4 to meet up at there special place? I don't remember a followup and I never saw them again.

There was no followup that I saw. Last I saw Milten was during the cutscene with the sword, but I made a beeline to the orc camp after as I felt a sense of urgency story-wise with the Sleeper awakening etc. If they can indeed be found, I was trying to find them at that secret camp in the woods near where the orc territories begin, but I never saw anyone.

[1998]

I forgot to say, I also loved how it was optional to kill people in this game. Before getting the sword that could kill cultists I had never killed any humans the whole game (Gorn was a mass murderer in the Free Mine, even wanting to kill Diggers, though I am not sure I could have progressed without him killing where I, instead, spared). It felt like it mattered. Are there any other games that have this sort of a "weight", so to speak, added to the human NPCs aside from Deus Ex? The only one that comes to mind is Assassin's Creed, but those I played were nothing close to in depth for this mechanic.

Gothic 2 is just Gothic: But More! with higher quality.
There's also Archolos which is free for anyone who owns Gothic 2, it's a very good fanmade game in the Gothic 2 engine/style.


Make sure to grab the Polish VA. I assume you can't understand it, but that's fine, it sounds like one of those fantasy languages anyways. Just adds atmosphere.

Worth mentioning they are working on a 2.0 currently. If they release it this year, it's almost certainly GOTY.

[Tweed]

I forgot to say, I also loved how it was optional to kill people in this game. Before getting the sword that could kill cultists I had never killed any humans the whole game (Gorn was a mass murderer in the Free Mine, even wanting to kill Diggers, though I am not sure I could have progressed without him killing where I, instead, spared). It felt like it mattered. Are there any other games that have this sort of a "weight", so to speak, added to the human NPCs aside from Deus Ex? The only one that comes to mind is Assassin's Creed, but those I played were nothing close to in depth for this mechanic.

Gothic 2 is just Gothic: But More! with higher quality.
There's also Archolos which is free for anyone who owns Gothic 2, it's a very good fanmade game in the Gothic 2 engine/style.

Don't you worry, I remember the list you gave me to play Wanted to wait for the Adventurer's Guild to go ahead, but, I have to say, I am really itching to see more of this game

If you decide to play Gothic 2 with NotR then consult on a guide on how to build a character if you don't run any mods/patches. It gets pretty complicated and you can screw yourself.

[DagothGeas5]

Gothic 2 is just Gothic: But More! with higher quality.
There's also Archolos which is free for anyone who owns Gothic 2, it's a very good fanmade game in the Gothic 2 engine/style.

Don't you worry, I remember the list you gave me to play Wanted to wait for the Adventurer's Guild to go ahead, but, I have to say, I am really itching to see more of this game

If you decide to play Gothic 2 with NotR then consult on a guide on how to build a character if you don't run any mods/patches. It gets pretty complicated and you can screw yourself.

Unless it puts me in some dead end, it wouldn't be the first time I built my character in a way that made the game seemingly impossible and frustrating to complete for myself, but it was always worth it (especially as it forced me to re-evaluate strategies and the likes, which was fun to do). Thank you for the headsup!

[J1M]

@Oyster Sauce looking to confirm that completing this with mods, or OpenGothic, or the Gothic remake that comes out next year will all count towards the badge before I decide how to resolve the startup crashes.

[Oyster Sauce]

@Oyster Sauce looking to confirm that completing this with mods, or OpenGothic, or the Gothic remake that comes out next year will all count towards the badge before I decide how to resolve the startup crashes.

Yep

[rusty_shackleford]

@Oyster Sauce looking to confirm that completing this with mods, or OpenGothic, or the Gothic remake that comes out next year will all count towards the badge before I decide how to resolve the startup crashes.

OpenGothic worked well for me when I tried it

[CornCake]

That's it for Gothic. Great game with a massive fuckmuckle of issues. @Oyster Sauce If you wouldn't mind please mate!


The exploration in this game was excellent, starting out with wee next to nothing and having to break into chests, grind against oversized pigeons and die to ****** wasps, only to come back with better gear and stats to make them regret existence was pure satisfying. Unfortunately this only lasts until the midgame, where you max out your weapon stat and build only strength/dex so it turns into a numbers game instead of any skill. The combat was clunky even for 2001 (DMC released same year) but serviceable. Early on I found the best strategy was to attack once or twice, then backstep to avoid the counter, so without the weapon skill upgrading your attack speed and animations, I got exhausted from combat at chapter 4. Speaking of chapter 4, it turned into a series of fetch quests, with lots of walking (the movement speed is not fast either without the sprint potions) and the only reprieve being the teleport runes, and the game remained this way until the end as the dungeons weren't unique compared to exploring the overworld (other than the temple being lava based, but far too long).

The reactivity of the NPC's was a refreshment, I loved how they would get angry if you blocked their path or pulled your weapon out in front of them, and I laughed hard when I got told off for walking through someone's hut as if it were road. If the game had a few more voice actors, It would have been even better as I heard the same three for most NPC's the entire playthrough.

The story was interesting at first, but became cliche and forgettable the more you went through. It dinnae matter which camp you picked, as no matter what you ended up with the new camp and the only difference being your "class". There were few consequences for picking as the other two camps cared little and let me roam around freely. It falls of a cliff at the end as the villain was predictable from the start, and the final cutscene was completely underwhelming and rushed. I could tell that the longer the game went on, the less time they had to work on it so they had to throw it out the door.

Voice acting was hit or miss, with the player character being horrible, so I skipped his dialogue every time he spoke (it helped that the text was almost always 1 for 1, no Mass Effect wheel here).

I used a few mods for it, community patches to fix bugs (some at least, was still very buggy) and resolution. A texture pack to make the game look incredible without breaking the art style, a controller mod since the M/K controls were too clunky for me to enjoy, and some plugins to help with crashes.

I give it a 3.5. One of the better games I played for the JAG so far, and good for a single playthrough.

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Cannae make a map texture for your mod? Just flip the Skyrim map upside down! No one will notice!

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Loads o diversity in a game from 2001...

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Diego's a buffty lad, gets a wee bit close when he talks, needs a beating.

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Mug means different things depending on the UK or the US.

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**** anything with magic. The stunlocking is infuriating to the point of wall smashing.

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**** your ULU MULU ********, TOTAL ORC DEATH! TOLKIEN WOULD BE PROUD!

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Giant spider monster thing! I hope I get to fight that! (HINT: Nope. Bald guy instead...)

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The BIG BAD BALDY was a terrible final boss. He spams a spell that stunned me for 1 damage, making me stutter step to him for 45 seconds just to whack him down with a stun in between each hit.

[J1M]

@Oyster Sauce looking to confirm that completing this with mods, or OpenGothic, or the Gothic remake that comes out next year will all count towards the badge before I decide how to resolve the startup crashes.

Yep

Officially declaring that the remake is not eligible for the badge

@Oyster Sauce

[Oyster Sauce]

@Oyster Sauce looking to confirm that completing this with mods, or OpenGothic, or the Gothic remake that comes out next year will all count towards the badge before I decide how to resolve the startup crashes.

Yep

Officially declaring that the remake is not eligible for the badge

@Oyster Sauce

new information

[J1M]

Yep

Officially declaring that the remake is not eligible for the badge

@Oyster Sauce

new information

Was confirming whether or not you were joking, since it is an outlier ruling.

[Finarfin]

What new information? Unless you mean the whole desaster regarding the men in drag being Gomez' slaves and the devs response to the critique.

[Oyster Sauce]

Laffing very hard at everybody who said it was fine that black people were everywhere in Gothic 1 because it's set in a prison colony now that I know they're like 60% of the regular population in Gothic 2. Ahead of its time.

[Tweed]

Laffing very hard at everybody who said it was fine that black people were everywhere in Gothic 1 because it's set in a prison colony now that I know they're like 60% of the regular population in Gothic 2. Ahead of its time.

You're exaggerating, some of them are swarthy *****.

[rusty_shackleford]

can't really think of any blacks other than the recurring character

[Tinky Winky]

can't really think of any blacks other than the recurring character

There's a niggress that cook fish soup (for free, lol) but other than that, I can't think of any.

[J1M]

How do you cast a scroll?

I equipped it to a number slot.
I press the number slot.
Hand glows green.
I press CTRL and W at the same time. (For 8 seconds)
Hand raises above head.
Nothing happens.

EDIT: Figured it out.

[J1M]

Played the GOG version. Was surprised how good the game looked. It scaled up well to 1440p resolution. Good use of the 3D tech of that era. Especially in direct contrast to Morrowind, which came out a year later and looks awful in comparison. I found a lot of the awkwardness, such as the voice acting and character model proportions, was forgivable due to the earnestness that comes across in its delivery.

Similar to Underrail, I give this game credit for having a constrained setting and a different setting than most games.

Unfortunately, the game has a rough start. The controls are "experimental" and will take time to get used to. Additionally, your character starts very weak with limited direct methods of becoming stronger. In some ways, this does a great job of making the player feel powerless and in need of support, just as someone tossed into a prison colony would. Where this goes too far is the amount of searching for an NPC and long walks between points of interest that are required up-front to establish some autonomy.

The ability to choose a camp to join was a decent idea, but I found the game more enjoyable when I had a semi-linear series of quests that directed me to the more interesting locations. A better game structure would have been some initial linear quests that introduce you to the different camps and then near the middle of the game asking the player to choose who to align themselves with. It seems like this may have been a plan at some point, given how awkward it is to be helping the Sect Camp summon their god after selecting another camp.

The troll encounter was cool. The solution was a bit obvious, but still cool. I also wish there were more areas like the last one.

Negatives: Eventually the game grants you some shortcut tools but overall there is simply too much walking between camps in the first half of the game. An item to prevent falling damage would have been nice to enable shortcuts. Should have looked for a mod that does this. Also encountered a number of bugs with regards to side quests that prevented completion.

At one point I got lost and just went with it to farm XP and eat berries. I liked how that turned out, but it was disappointing that most of the landmarks I found were locked until a later story event and the challenging creatures I killed on that diversion didn't count for the later quest that required them to be slain.

Also interesting that the game has almost zero female characters. Was nice not having to listen to Jennifer Hale for a while. I'd be open to an RPG with an all-female cast too, but I suspect instead of making a Wonder Woman game set on Amazon island, game devs wouldn't be able to restrain themselves from turning it into a virtue signaling lecture.

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@Oyster Sauce