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Post by DemoGraph »

Ok, a few short questions, before I answer in detail. Yes/no probably should suffice.

I, Demograph, prefer incestous marriage. Am I woke?
Modern day American citizen prefers incestous marriage. Is s/he woke?
Pharaohs preferred incestuous marriages. Were they woke?
Bill Clinton got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
A modern person got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Ok, a few short questions, before I answer in detail. Yes/no probably should suffice.

I, Demograph, prefer incestous marriage. Am I woke?
Modern day American citizen prefers incestous marriage. Is s/he woke?
Pharaohs preferred incestuous marriages. Were they woke?
Bill Clinton got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
A modern person got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
woke post
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
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Post by Tangerine »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Ok, a few short questions, before I answer in detail. Yes/no probably should suffice.

I, Demograph, prefer incestous marriage. Am I woke?
Modern day American citizen prefers incestous marriage. Is s/he woke?
Pharaohs preferred incestuous marriages. Were they woke?
Bill Clinton got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
A modern person got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
Is this leading to "You can't define woke with 100% accuracy, so it doesn't exist"?
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Post by Kalarion »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Ok, a few short questions, before I answer in detail. Yes/no probably should suffice.

I, Demograph, prefer incestous marriage. Am I woke?
Modern day American citizen prefers incestous marriage. Is s/he woke?
Pharaohs preferred incestuous marriages. Were they woke?
Bill Clinton got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
A modern person got extramarital blowjob. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
In all cases where it's not clear in the question itself or the question explicitly rules against it, I will answer based on the assumption that the intent is to normalize and/or promote the behavior in question.

Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Maybe.
Yes.
. wrote: ↑
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
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Post by W1llus »

DreamMachine wrote: ↑ April 11th, 2025, 15:24
Disappointing to see that the games from my previous post haven't been added to the list yet. Nevertheless below are more woke titles to add.

- Portal Stories: Mel: Your robot companion is gay. There is another robot in the game that is also gay. One of the offices has a rainbow flag on the wall.

- Control: The protagonist is lesbian and there is romantic tension between her and another character in the game. There is also a strong black female leader character present in the game.

- Mutazione: The protagonist is lesbian. One of the females in the game cheats on her boyfriend and gets pregnant. When both males are confronted, the female, instead of taking responsibility (and without input of both males who are complete simps), decides to put the responsibility of raising the kid on the entire community. Absolutely disgusting.

- Close to the Sun: The story revolves around a woman looking for her genius sister aboard a huge ship built by Nikola Tesla. When taking a closer look at the name plates of the living quarters, you can clearly see that most residents/scientists are female. There is also an indication that a game was being played between some of the residents and the leaderboard of this game is dominated by one of the women.

- Nine Sols: A couple of minutes into the game and the first singular they/them reference pops up. I stopped playing.

- Atomfall: At the very start of the game you meet a male scientist. A few minutes later the menu refers to him as they/them. I can't bother with the rest of the game, but I'd like to bet it probably gets worse. Rebellion is evil.

- Dead Island 2: The player is referred to as they/them. Very insulting.

- Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order: Already on the list but I just want to mention that the entire game revolves around an ancient nonbinary alien race called the Zeffo. Or at least I think they are nonbinary as they are referred to as they/them only. The whole game is filled to the brim with singular they/them references, but it's very inconsistent in my opinion. Stormtroopers are they/them (if I recall correctly) but your robot companion (who doesn't even have a mechanical penis) is a him. I seriously get the feeling this game is just a psyop with a Star Wars skin.

At this point I have come to the conclusion that almost every modern game at least contains woke elements. There is no escape. The only thing you can do is limit yourself to older games. Also, stick with original version as well as remasters/remakes/etc are probably "updated" for useful idiots/modern audiences.

I also wish the list was in another format. Google is evil and you can't even print or download it. Why block people's ability to save an offline copy for future reference? I don't appreciate this to say the least. Long gone are the days when the internet was a place of freedom where you could just copy, share and download whatever you wanted.

Also, can someone please refer me to specific examples of singular they/them being used in games/movies/tv shows from at least 15-20 years ago? People claim that this has always been a thing, but this feels like gaslighting to me. I have been entertaining myself with games, movies etc for decades, and the first time I consciously noticed this singular they/them stuff was only a couple of years ago in Disney's Dreamlight Valley. I didn't know what the heck was going on... The fact that the game referred to a character as "they" was really puzzling and confusing to me. If this had been a thing before, I should not have been so confused. Hence, my theory is that this is being done on purpose in part to confuse people.
Wait a minute I played control. Where in the game does it say Jesse is a lesbian? Are you referring to the girl with the short hair? I don't even remember a romantic relationship being even implied. The strong black female though is very accurate. She does die in the DLC though.
Edit: I looked into it, and I could not find any hits regarding Jesse being a lesbian. Hell, if that were the case, there would have been something on Reddit since they eat that slop up. I did find ******* discussing if she was ***** (she's not) or if she's some how a ***** allegory (she isn't) which is why you gotta be really careful when you're using an irl women as a model to not give her in-game self a man jaw to leave no room for doubt.
Last edited by W1llus on April 26th, 2025, 02:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Thanks.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 15:03
You're wandering from the point, which is that your initial criticism - "the list either goes too far, or doesn't go far enough" was unironically agreed with (it doesn't go far enough).
That wasn't the point of my criticism.
My point was that I think that the criteria of wokeness in that list are so vague, they degrade to "everything I don't like is woke". It's completely analogous to woketards spewing stuff like "everything white is bigoted", radfem "all **** carriers are guilty since birth" or generic "anyone I don't like is Hitler".
If authors of that list (or your conservative movement in general) don't want to be regarded as clowns, some methodology is in order.
It might not be turbo precise. But saying that Loki was woke is dumb, because he lived outside of the realm of Christian values. And if you're going to run with borderless cultural Christian imperialism without some methodological rigidity, you don't only deviate from Christian ontology that (unlike many Eastern religions) aimed for non-contradictory worldview, you degrade to the state of cavemen thinking. Because this
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Yes.
is completely the same as stating that all the world outside of a part of Christianity is woke. Up to polygamous animals.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
Maybe.
Teeth implants, amputee prosthetics and appendectomy are "maybe" woke. Depending on the definition of "altering your body", you may also include everything up to vaccination, medicinal drugs, anesthetics and alcohol here.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
Yes.
Teeth whitening, shaving, haircuts, and nail clipping are woke.

You might have trouble convincing people.
Last edited by DemoGraph on April 26th, 2025, 06:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stack of Turtles »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Yes.
is completely the same as stating that all the world outside of a part of Christianity is woke. Up to polygamous animals.
It is. Also all of Christianity is woke too.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Stack of Turtles wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:10
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Yes.
is completely the same as stating that all the world outside of a part of Christianity is woke. Up to polygamous animals.
It is. Also all of Christianity is woke too.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
Thanks.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 15:03
You're wandering from the point, which is that your initial criticism - "the list either goes too far, or doesn't go far enough" was unironically agreed with (it doesn't go far enough).
That wasn't the point of my criticism.
My point was that I think that the criteria of wokeness in that list are so vague, they degrade to "everything I don't like is woke". It's completely analogous to woketards spewing stuff like "everything white is bigoted", radfem "all **** carriers are guilty since birth" or generic "anyone I don't like is Hitler".
If authors of that list (or your conservative movement in general) don't want to be regarded as clowns, some methodology is in order.
It might not be turbo precise. But saying that Loki was woke is dumb, because he lived outside of the realm of Christian values. And if you're going to run with borderless cultural Christian imperialism without some methodological rigidity, you don't only deviate from Christian ontology that (unlike many Eastern religions) aimed for non-contradictory worldview, you degrade to the state of cavemen thinking. Because this
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
Julius Caesar got extramarital blowjob from Cleopatra. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
Yes.
is completely the same as stating that all the world outside of a part of Christianity is woke. Up to polygamous animals.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
I think that I have a right to alter my body if I consider it dysfunctional. Am I woke?
Maybe.
Teeth implants, amputee prosthetics and appendectomy are "maybe" woke. Depending on the definition of "altering your body", you may also include everything up to vaccination, medicinal drugs, anesthetics and alcohol here.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 19:29
I think that I have a right to alter my body for aesthetic reasons. Am I woke?
Yes.
Teeth whitening, shaving, haircuts, and nail clipping are woke.

You might have trouble convincing people.
If you can connect it to cultural marxism, it is woke, because cultural marxism is the definition of woke.
Is modifying your body woke? It depends on whether the goal is to e.g., undermine the nuclear family, "smash the patriarchy", upset societal norms, etc.,
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
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Post by Acrux »

This guy is speedrunning for biggest libtard here. And he has a lot of competition.
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Post by DemoGraph »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
undermine the nuclear family
Nuclear family is a feature of the last century or two. Before that the majority of Europeans lived in extended families.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
undermine the nuclear family
Nuclear family is a feature of the last century or two. Before that the majority of Europeans lived in extended families.
Goalpost shifting, you know what the intent of that statement was and it was not having Grandma live with you.
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Post by UltraFan123 »

I always found the term "nuclear" family so odd, why not just call it normal family? We should make that a goalpost, rename "nuclear family" to "normal family".

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Post by DemoGraph »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:33
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
undermine the nuclear family
Nuclear family is a feature of the last century or two. Before that the majority of Europeans lived in extended families.
Goalpost shifting, you know what the intent of that statement was and it was not having Grandma live with you.
Nope. :) I'm nitpicking for fun, because you've probably said
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
If you can connect it to cultural marxism, it is woke,
that Marx wasn't woke. Because frankfurters and modern marxists contradict Marx.

I'm reiterating that you guys have problems with definitions.
Last edited by DemoGraph on April 26th, 2025, 06:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:45
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:33
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:31

Nuclear family is a feature of the last century or two. Before that the majority of Europeans lived in extended families.
Goalpost shifting, you know what the intent of that statement was and it was not having Grandma live with you.
Nope. :) I'm nitpicking for fun, because you've probably said
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
If you can connect it to cultural marxism, it is woke,
that Marx wasn't woke. Because frankfurters and modern marxists contradict Marx.

I'm reiterating that you guys have problems with definitions.
marx was giga-woke
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Post by Manny V »

'ate libtards, simple as
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Post by logincrash »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
If authors of that list (or your conservative movement in general) don't want to be regarded as clowns, some methodology is in order.
The saying of "the facts don't care about your feelings" isn't a persuasive argument, because the immediate reaction (whether it's an honest one or just subconscious) is "Well, I care about my feelings, not the facts." Meaning that no amount of logical arguments or well-researched reasoning will ever prevent people from regarding anyone as clowns simply on the basis of their identity. This is the same as "We can't deport all the Mexicans because people will call us racist!" You will be called racist no matter what you do.
You don't win people over by being logically correct. You do it by appealing to their emotions.
The point of this list isn't to win the ideologically opposed people over, it's not even to persuade the normalfags. It's to inform those who already understand and accept the preposition that "woke is bad." And it's not a magically-binding contract that stops you from ever playing any game deemed "woke." That's why it says "Not Recommended" instead of "Forbidden."
Last edited by logincrash on April 26th, 2025, 06:52, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Odds and ends.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 15:03
Where on earth did you get the idea monarchists or catholics are anti-capitalist?
Because Russian and Austrian emperors had limited tech development in their empires to slow down expansion of merchant power.
Christians in general and Catholics in particular had laws against usury. And for the major part of history Christians had adhered to doctrine of "justified price" that made trading for profit and capitalist activities inherently sinful. That's one of the main reasons why **** became moneylenders of Medieval Europe.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 15:03
The HOMM3 example isn't as hot of a take as you might have thought.
It's not only about HOMM. You can take pretty much any oldschool game and find something undesirable in it. Except Pacman. And Tetris (except that it's a commie game).
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 15:03
Your criticism of the list as slovenly comes across as rude and mean-spirited given both the time and effort @Furin has put into it
I don't know who makes it. And don't care. I react to the product and underlying ideas, not the people. That's why I say things like "you guys".
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
Is modifying your body woke? It depends on whether the goal is to e.g., undermine the nuclear family, "smash the patriarchy", upset societal norms, etc.,
You contradict Kalarion. Because you shift focus from personal to political level. It means that this
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
isn't woke. Because Caesar uses his property according to societal norms.
It also means that, e.g. contraception and abortions aren't woke, at least sometimes. And transgenderism, if it's not political, but a personal choice, probably isn't woke. I don't know whether you would agree with it.
logincrash wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:51
"Well, I care about my feelings, not the facts."
Lately, the usual counterargument to this is "You'll never be a woman".
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Post by logincrash »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
logincrash wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:51
"Well, I care about my feelings, not the facts."
Lately, the usual counterargument to this is "You'll never be a woman".
True. And, as you've undoubtedly noticed, this counter-argument doesn't magically untroon people.
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Post by Acrux »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09

Because Russian and Austrian emperors had limited tech development in their empires to slow down expansion of merchant power.
Christians in general and Catholics in particular had laws against usury. And for the major part of history Christians had adhered to doctrine of "justified price" that made trading for profit and capitalist activities inherently sinful. That's one of the main reasons why **** became moneylenders of Medieval Europe.
Usury and price gouging are things Adam Smith was opposed to, and therefore modern capitalists contradict Smith. It looks like you have a problem with definitions.
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Post by W1llus »

I skimmed over the list and one of the ratings that caught my eye was nioh 2 which surprised me and I think it comes entirely from a misunderstanding as everyone skips the story for gameplay (the story is okay-ish). Nioh 2 is historical fiction and the way they work your character into the story is by having your PC share the name Hideyoshi with Tokichiro (aka the real toyotomi hideyoshi aka monkey man) as you and him always travel as a pair for the majority of the game. Hence why characters refer to you as they (as in the pair). Otherwise specific interactions outright change depending on your gender such as using one of the hotsprings in one of the levels. At worst it's "informational" because yasuke is in the game and referred to as a samurai. He's also in nioh 1 btw.
Last edited by W1llus on April 26th, 2025, 13:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Stack of Turtles »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:16
Is modifying your body woke? It depends on whether the goal is to e.g., undermine the nuclear family, "smash the patriarchy", upset societal norms, etc.,
You contradict Kalarion. Because you shift focus from personal to political level. It means that this
Julius Caesar got blowjob from his male slave. Can he be regarded woke because of that?
isn't woke. Because Caesar uses his property according to societal norms.
It also means that, e.g. contraception and abortions aren't woke, at least sometimes. And transgenderism, if it's not political, but a personal choice, probably isn't woke. I don't know whether you would agree with it.
You really don't seem to understand basic things like "words".

It's entirely possible that, for example, a gay sexual act is always woke while modifying your body might be woke or not depending on social factors.

Transsexualism is inherently biologically deviant, btw, which means it's always woke regardless of intent. You can shoot the president because you hate his policies or because you want to impress Jodie Foster, but you're an attempted assassin either way.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Acrux wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:18
Usury and price gouging are things Adam Smith was opposed to, and therefore modern capitalists contradict Smith.
1. They actually do. Smith is obsolete in many regards.
2. That's not true. He made distinctions between "natural price" and "market price" and admitted that depending on the circumstances market price could be very high. Then he handwaved it with "but it never lasts for long".
He also admitted that having a large debt might be necessary for government in many circumstances. And that debt yield could be in the dozens, again depending on circumstances.
Stack of Turtles wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 17:23
You really don't seem to understand basic things like "words".
It doesn't matter what I personally understand or not. I'm not here to change your catechism.
Stack of Turtles wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 17:23
Transsexualism is inherently biologically deviant
This might be true for humans. I have no idea. We probably don't know yet, according to this. https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-02005-9
This is definitely not true for other species. I had an aquarium with genderbender snails (very inconvenient, ******* just kept on multiplying). I think that flowers are dominantly hermaphoditic (quick search seems to confirm that). I have no idea how prevalent it is among mammals.
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Post by Tangerine »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 22:37
This might be true for humans. I have no idea. We probably don't know yet, according to this. https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-02005-9
This is definitely not true for other species. I had an aquarium with genderbender snails (very inconvenient, ******* just kept on multiplying). I think that flowers are dominantly hermaphoditic (quick search seems to confirm that). I have no idea how prevalent it is among mammals.
Are you trying to speedrun the libtard anti-anti-woke playbook?
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Post by Stack of Turtles »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 22:37
Stack of Turtles wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 17:23
Transsexualism is inherently biologically deviant
This might be true for humans. I have no idea. We probably don't know yet, according to this. https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 21-02005-9
This is definitely not true for other species. I had an aquarium with genderbender snails (very inconvenient, ******* just kept on multiplying). I think that flowers are dominantly hermaphoditic (quick search seems to confirm that). I have no idea how prevalent it is among mammals.
It doesn't happen among mammals at all.

Snails aren't transsexual, they're just hermaphroditic. Fish that can change sex aren't transsexual either. The "*****" in "transsexual" means "across" or "beyond" and explicitly means that something contrary to the biological reality of the species is happening. Transsexuality inherently means that you aren't actually the sex you pretend to be, but that you're trying to "cross" it. When the actual biological reality of a clownfish changes due to a change in its position in the dominance hierarchy, that's a normal process for clownfish and nothing is being transgressed.

And that does not happen in any mammals, ever. We are incapable of it. If you had any idea about biology, you'd know that.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Stack of Turtles wrote: ↑ April 27th, 2025, 02:40
It doesn't happen among mammals at all.
We obviously had misunderstanding. I've interpreted "Transsexualism is inherently biologically deviant" as "it's so for all biosphere".
Still, if transsexual preferences in humans are biologically (not culturally) derived, I'd say they should be reacted to similarly to all other inborn disabilities.
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Post by Kalarion »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
That wasn't the point of my criticism.
My point was that I think that the criteria of wokeness in that list are so vague, they degrade to "everything I don't like is woke". It's completely analogous to woketards spewing stuff like "everything white is bigoted", radfem "all **** carriers are guilty since birth" or generic "anyone I don't like is Hitler".
It was your point, so I'll concede I missed it. If you want a specific definition of woke, I would say something along the lines of: anything that attempts to promote or normalize deviant sexual, gender, familial or racial behavior, or to promote or normalize liberalism.
β–Ί Examples
"Anyone I don't like is Hitler" is a meme that was used to great effect to attack libtards. Like all good memes it has a great deal of truth to it, which makes it hard to combat. It's a simple, catchy description of human nature. Since libtards explicitly screech against human nature ("we're TOLERANT, we're INCLUSIVE"), this simple pointing out of the inherent contradiction between what they scream against vs. how they behave drove them absolutely up the wall. So we keep using it. But it doesn't work in reverse (at least, not on me) because it doesn't point out a contradiction in my behavior or thoughts.

Sure, anyone I don't like is demonic. Thank heavens, I happen to be right! That's become more and more the key to me: you're going to hate someone (or something), so you need to make sure the target of hatred is correctly defined. Feel free to point to examples of healthy governance where this is not the case.

You may actually note that the meme is becoming less and less effective as time goes on, as libtards are pulled kicking and screaming away from liberalism or hyperchristianity - there really are things they hate, they really shouldn't worship tolerance or inclusion, and those that fight against them are dangerous and should be treated as such. In a strange way, you might say that the Right is forcing the Left to be more and more based :D
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:45
that Marx wasn't woke. Because frankfurters and modern marxists contradict Marx.

I'm reiterating that you guys have problems with definitions.
No True Communist! Ironically I can sympathize. No True Christian!
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 06:08
Example "traps".
The only way your gotchas re: Julius Caesar etc are actually traps is if you completely ignore the prior I gave in my response:
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 25th, 2025, 23:58
In all cases ... I will answer based on the assumption that the intent is to normalize and/or promote the behavior in question.
Is Caesar's homosexuality portrayed as a fact of Roman elite life? Not necessarily woke.

Is Caesar's homosexuality portrayed as justification, glorification or normalization of homosexuality per se? Woke. As for that, so for the others in the list.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
Because Russian and Austrian emperors had limited tech development in their empires to slow down expansion of merchant power.
Christians in general and Catholics in particular had laws against usury. And for the major part of history Christians had adhered to doctrine of "justified price" that made trading for profit and capitalist activities inherently sinful.
If they did it specifically for that reason they were beyond idiots - they should have just put them all up against the wall.

Christianity has never defined capitalism as inherently sinful, egads, what are you talking about? Capital by its definition exists for good use. I suppose they would have a problem with the modern capitalist system, but so what? I do too, in many ways. It doesn't make me anti-capitalist.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
It's not only about HOMM. You can take pretty much any oldschool game and find something undesirable in it. Except Pacman. And Tetris (except that it's a commie game).
Yes indeed, witness Rusty's attempt to use Arcanum against me when I screech about Baldur's Gate 3, or my newfound disgust with Jeff Vogel after replaying Exile 3 recently. Such is life.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
I don't know who makes it. And don't care. I react to the product and underlying ideas, not the people. That's why I say things like "you guys".
I know that. I was just giving some context. I also said it's fair, and explained why even with the problems that come with one man maintaining such a massive list, I still like it.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
You contradict Kalarion. Because you shift focus from personal to political level.
He does not contradict me, apparently you just forgot to read the portion of my response I put in bold above. The intent behind the portrayal matters as well.
DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 26th, 2025, 13:09
isn't woke. Because Caesar uses his property according to societal norms.
It also means that, e.g. contraception and abortions aren't woke, at least sometimes. And transgenderism, if it's not political, but a personal choice, probably isn't woke. I don't know whether you would agree with it.
Already dealt with.
. wrote: ↑
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
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Post by Eyestabber »

@Furin

Diceomancer
Xenonauts 2
Mechabellum
Last Epoch

Games I played somewhat recently. They all belong in the "not woke" category. Also, your rating of Jagged Alliance 3 should be yellow, not red. Putting it on the same category as Forspoken makes your list meaningless.
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Post by DemoGraph »

Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 27th, 2025, 18:24
anything that attempts to promote or normalize deviant sexual, gender, familial or racial behavior, or to promote or normalize liberalism.
The only way your gotchas re: Julius Caesar etc are actually traps is if you completely ignore the prior I gave in my response:
I had actually also missed your original note that "it's about promoting, not showing".
And those weren't exactly "gotchas". More like, "I made a kinda linear progression to watch where you'll draw the line, but it's actually not linear as a bonus". It failed, though, because you've shifted shifted your answer enough to make it useless for my original intent. That's ok.

I almost agree with your list (few caveats like "emotional or mental gender subversion" is culture-dependent, etc.).
I don't agree with definition of liberalism (that's definitely not one I was taught in uni, not the most common one and not the one I find believable).
I actually didn't know about Wakanda)

I still think that the list requires more rigor. Because for me your interpretation (and mine) differ from the one used in it. E.g.
"Transistor" is in red, though the character stated as a reason for redness is minor and I don't remember his gender having any influence on the game.
I haven't played "Don't starve" enough, but stating that robot can't be noncisgender is dumb.
Rimworld is a sci fi sandbox. Of course it could have biomodding, etc. It doesn't force you to use it or include LGBTQs in your colony.

I actually had more problems with yellow lists. Like, FF7. Yes, we can play ecoterrorists; it's a game, what about it? We can routinely play necromancers and try to kill all humans.
I find the list to be overzealous in some regards and sloppy in omissions (I've already given examples above, SMAC, Diablo, etc. are all at least should be questionable judging by other labels on that list). Yes, it's probably a question of intent. In many cases it's not obvious (to me) whether devs were trying to undermine anything rather than, say, just put a sexy *** on screen.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 27th, 2025, 18:24
If they did it specifically for that reason they were beyond idiots - they should have just put them all up against the wall.
That. And also the question of social stability. I think it was Nikolai 1 who had once denied to support harvest yield improving measures (there was a project of making pretty much Roman latifundias - high intensity partly mechanized agri plantations) because he thought they would push peasants away from markets and they'd have to resort to vagrancy; and yes plantation owners could've gotten too much power.
Several emperors (both Russian and Austrian) had also delayed serfdom reforms for similar reasons, though that's more complex question.
Kalarion wrote: ↑ April 27th, 2025, 18:24
No True Communist! Ironically I can sympathize. No True Christian!
Well, he doesn't seem to fit your list. Because Marx was preoccupied with philosophy first, economy and politics second and the questions of family were at best of tertiary importance. I don't think he wrote about gender at all (though I definitely haven't read a lot of his works). And I think he didn't try to undermine religion.
Last edited by DemoGraph on April 29th, 2025, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Rumbles »

DemoGraph wrote: ↑ April 29th, 2025, 09:59


I still think that the list requires more rigor. Because for me your interpretation (and mine) differ from the one used in it. E.g.
"Transistor" is in red, though the character stated as a reason for redness is minor and I don't remember his gender having any influence on the game.
I haven't played "Don't starve" enough, but stating that robot can't be noncisgender is dumb.
Rimworld is a sci fi sandbox. Of course it could have biomodding, etc. It doesn't force you to use it or include LGBTQs in your colony.
What grinds my gears in this thread are people who cant make a difference between transhumanism and transgenderism. Goal of transhumanism is to perfect the human being, at the current stage we are in an era where it at least helps life quality if we think of prosthetics, stem cell therapy etc. Now is it woke because it still alters the body, goes against traditional values and fights against nature? Maybe, but it cant be in the same category as gender wars ********.

Also I have played about 500h of Rimworld and the gender/sexuality traits there are just to make managing colonies more difficult, if you have 2 normal males and a gay wants to join, he will start hitting on them like a horny ******* and **** them off (might result in social brawls etc depending on other traits). Incredibly accurate