Various role-playing RPG game stuff not deserving its own thread

[WhiteShark]

This is just a difference in defining the term "magic". To most people, magic isn't specifically used in the sense in your second sentence, but means anything sufficiently inexplicable and supernatural.

Which, I think, is a confusion resulting largely from fiction divorcing the word from its actual meaning. It's almost as if there are entities that want people to think that magic is a neutral, or even good, thing.

[rusty_shackleford]

Clerics.

All magic users in Forgotten Realms get their magic from a deity, they're all technically clerics.

[maidenhaver]

This is just a difference in defining the term "magic". To most people, magic isn't specifically used in the sense in your second sentence, but means anything sufficiently inexplicable and supernatural.

Which, I think, is a confusion resulting largely from fiction divorcing the word from its actual meaning. It's almost as if there are entities that want people to think that magic is a neutral, or even good, thing.

If somebody's receptive to magic, then fiction is the least of their worries. How many normal christians who weren't sexually abused pursued diabolism, because of Gandalf and Merlin?

[Kalarion]

Qrd on Merlin?

Merlin's traditional biography casts him as an often-mad cambion, born of a mortal woman and an incubus, from whom he inherits his supernatural powers and abilities.

I expect one of our resident experts will chime in soon.

Yeah, there's really not too much more to tell other than that. I'm not aware of anything that gives more detail on Merlin's childhood.

http://www.earlybritishkingdoms.com/bio ... t on earth.

Merlin was the illegitimate son of a monastic Royal Princess of Dyfed. The lady's father, however, King Meurig ap Maredydd ap Rhain, is not found in the traditional pedigrees of this kingdom and was probably a sub-King of the region bordering on Ceredigion. Merlin's father, it is said, was an angel who had visited the Royal nun and left her with child. Merlin's enemies claimed his father was really an incubus, an evil spirit that has intercourse with sleeping women. The evil child was supposed to provide a counterweight to the good influence of Jesus Christ on earth. Merlin, fortunately, was baptized early on in his life, an event which is said to have negated the evil in his nature, but left his powers intact. The original story may have been invented to save his mother from the scandal which would have occurred had her liaison with one Morfyn Frych (the Freckled), a minor Prince of the House of Coel, been made public knowledge. Although, chronologically speaking, this man fits better as the father of the Northern Merlin (See below).

Incidentally, Merlin's ancestry is a plot point in That Hideous Strength, as he's needed in the fight against NICE as someone who would "legally" be allowed to use magic.

Stephen Lawhead makes Merlin the child of an Atlantean princess (Charis, later the Lady of the Lake) and Taliesin (himself a foundling of unknown origin, raised by Elfin ap Gwynneth(dd?) and Rhonwyn, the king and queen of Dyfed before its destruction by the first great invasion of the savages of the north).

I like Stephen Lawhead.

[WhiteShark]

If somebody's receptive to magic, then fiction is the least of their worries. How many normal christians who weren't sexually abused pursued diabolism, because of Gandalf and Merlin?

I don't have any numbers on that, so I can only speculate, but I have heard the testimony of an ex-satanist who got into it young because he wanted to do magic, and I remember as a kid once spending some time in my room trying very hard to use The Force to move stuff around. What if, instead of giving up, I had gone looking for how to really do it, as that ex-satanist did? At the very least, it's not something I would have thought to try without the influence of fiction. I enjoy fantasy as much as the next guy, but it's undeniable that it has stripped the word magic of its proper sense of darkness and danger.

[rusty_shackleford]

If somebody's receptive to magic, then fiction is the least of their worries. How many normal christians who weren't sexually abused pursued diabolism, because of Gandalf and Merlin?

I don't have any numbers on that, so I can only speculate, but I have heard the testimony of an ex-satanist who got into it young because he wanted to do magic, and I remember as a kid once spending some time in my room trying very hard to use The Force to move stuff around. What if, instead of giving up, I had gone looking for how to really do it, as that ex-satanist did? At the very least, it's not something I would have thought to try without the influence of fiction. I enjoy fantasy as much as the next guy, but it's undeniable that it has stripped the word magic of its proper sense of darkness and danger.

You got older and realized you can tell the difference between fiction and the real world.
People who waste their time trying to attack fiction for "evul magicz!" do significant harm to christianity. Nobody wants to be associated with a no fun allowed group.

[Stack of Turtles]

This is just a difference in defining the term "magic". To most people, magic isn't specifically used in the sense in your second sentence, but means anything sufficiently inexplicable and supernatural.

Which, I think, is a confusion resulting largely from fiction divorcing the word from its actual meaning. It's almost as if there are entities that want people to think that magic is a neutral, or even good, thing.

Okay, but in the context of the specific conversation in this thread, miracles performed by God are the logical good equivalent of magic if someone wants supernatural abilities in an RPG, yeah?

[WhiteShark]

You got older and realized you can tell the difference between fiction and the real world.
People who waste their time trying to attack fiction for "evul magicz!" do significant harm to christianity. Nobody wants to be associated with a no fun allowed group.

I'm surprised to see you make this argument given how much you like to point out the effects of depictions of violence in gaming. Isn't this the same sort of thing? I've read before that the human only really distinguishes between fiction and reality at the surface, conscious level, but that, to the subconscious, it's all the same. This is why porn is so stimulating even when you know they're acting and just pixels on your screen, anyway.

[WhiteShark]

Okay, but in the context of the specific conversation in this thread, miracles performed by God are the logical good equivalent of magic if someone wants supernatural abilities in an RPG, yeah?

I think you may have lost the context, actually. This was the initial claim:

PSA (food for thought for your next RPG session):

1.) Dwarfs, elfs, gnomes etc. are all demonic and not at all like the mostly virtuous bunch portrayed in LOTR when you read read up on the folklore, look at archeological finds mentioning them and so on. They have much, much more in common with the enemy they are fighting in those books...

2.) There are no good spell casters, wizards, sorcerors, etc. in history. Not a single one.

He didn't say there should be no miracleworkers, but that depicting 'magic users' as anything but evil is ahistorical.

[rusty_shackleford]

You got older and realized you can tell the difference between fiction and the real world.
People who waste their time trying to attack fiction for "evul magicz!" do significant harm to christianity. Nobody wants to be associated with a no fun allowed group.

I'm surprised to see you make this argument given how much you like to point out the effects of depictions of violence in gaming. Isn't this the same sort of thing? I've read before that the human only really distinguishes between fiction and reality at the surface, conscious level, but that, to the subconscious, it's all the same. This is why porn is so stimulating even when you know they're acting and just pixels on your screen, anyway.

I don't consider it to be the same, because violence is a real thing. Of course video games can make you violent, I broke enough controllers as a kid to know this first hand. But they never made me start casting magical spells. At least by young adolescence I was aware of the difference between fiction and reality, and yeah it's probably worth keeping tabs on exactly what kind of media a young child is consuming until then.

[Irenaeus]

You got older and realized you can tell the difference between fiction and the real world.
People who waste their time trying to attack fiction for "evul magicz!" do significant harm to christianity. Nobody wants to be associated with a no fun allowed group.

I'm surprised to see you make this argument given how much you like to point out the effects of depictions of violence in gaming. Isn't this the same sort of thing? I've read before that the human only really distinguishes between fiction and reality at the surface, conscious level, but that, to the subconscious, it's all the same. This is why porn is so stimulating even when you know they're acting and just pixels on your screen, anyway.

Playing games where you're the evil diabolist or necromancer has to be bad for the mind, even if you don't believe in spirits or religion.

[WhiteShark]

I don't consider it to be the same, because violence is a real thing.

Magic, both in the sense of magical traditions and in the sense of genuine dealings with demons, is also real.

Of course video games can make you violent, I broke enough controllers as a kid to know this first hand. But they never made me start casting magical spells.

And I've never broken a controller in a fit of rage despite playing many violent video games, but I did try to use The Force as a child.

At least by young adolescence I was aware of the difference between fiction and reality, and yeah it's probably worth keeping tabs on exactly what kind of media a young child is consuming until then.

Right, but I must point out again that being able to distinguish between reality and fiction does not make one immune to the effects of fiction. If it did, advertising wouldn't work and no one would become emotional over (or even have any interest in) stories.

[Stack of Turtles]

Okay, but in the context of the specific conversation in this thread, miracles performed by God are the logical good equivalent of magic if someone wants supernatural abilities in an RPG, yeah?

I think you may have lost the context, actually. This was the initial claim:

PSA (food for thought for your next RPG session):

1.) Dwarfs, elfs, gnomes etc. are all demonic and not at all like the mostly virtuous bunch portrayed in LOTR when you read read up on the folklore, look at archeological finds mentioning them and so on. They have much, much more in common with the enemy they are fighting in those books...

2.) There are no good spell casters, wizards, sorcerors, etc. in history. Not a single one.

He didn't say there should be no miracleworkers, but that depicing 'magic users' as anything but evil is ahistorical.

I guess that's fair, I really only entered the conversation responding to somebody downthread.

[rusty_shackleford]

And I've never broken a controller in a fit of rage despite playing many violent video games, but I did try to use The Force as a child.

Going to guess my number of controllers broken is much higher than your number of things moved using your mind.

Right, but I must point out again that being able to distinguish between reality and fiction does not make one immune to the effects of fiction. If it did, advertising wouldn't work and no one would become emotional over (or even have any interest in) stories.

When has advertising tried to sell you fiction?
Gay sex is real and it can hurt you.

[rusty_shackleford]

Tolkien has probably converted more people to Christianity than any other single person if we exclude Jesus and his apostles. This is one of the reasons I was so surprised that @Kalarion didn't know he explicitly stated his work is religious in nature, it was common knowledge for any Catholic schoolboy.
In a world where faith leaders instead of attacking Gygax decided to engage with him, they could have probably used D&D as outreach to youth. Gygax was an outspoken Christian.

[WhiteShark]

Going to guess my number of controllers broken is much higher than your number of things moved using your mind.

Non sequitur.

When has advertising tried to sell you fiction?
Gay sex is real and it can hurt you.

The advertisement itself is fiction. Consider the typical TV ad from before they all became spiteful gay propaganda: it would usually depict some sort of heartwarming or amusing story meant to associate the product with those postitive thoughts in the viewer's mind. In other words, the viewer is not being sold a product, but a fiction about the product. If being able to distinguish between fiction and reality meant immunity to fiction, advertisements would consist of nothing more than a bare description of the qualities and uses of the product.

[rusty_shackleford]

Going to guess my number of controllers broken is much higher than your number of things moved using your mind.

Non sequitur.

When has advertising tried to sell you fiction?
Gay sex is real and it can hurt you.

The advertisement itself is fiction. Consider the typical TV ad from before they all became spiteful gay propaganda: it would usually depict some sort of heartwarming or amusing story meant to associate the product with those postitive thoughts in the viewer's mind. In other words, the viewer is not being sold a product, but a fiction about the product. If being able to distinguish between fiction and reality meant immunity to fiction, advertisements would consist of nothing more than a bare description of the qualities and uses of the product.

How long did it take you to realize that star wars is fiction?

[maidenhaver]

You got older and realized you can tell the difference between fiction and the real world.
People who waste their time trying to attack fiction for "evul magicz!" do significant harm to christianity. Nobody wants to be associated with a no fun allowed group.

I'm surprised to see you make this argument given how much you like to point out the effects of depictions of violence in gaming. Isn't this the same sort of thing? I've read before that the human only really distinguishes between fiction and reality at the surface, conscious level, but that, to the subconscious, it's all the same. This is why porn is so stimulating even when you know they're acting and just pixels on your screen, anyway.

Playing games where you're the evil diabolist or necromancer has to be bad for the mind, even if you don't believe in spirits or religion.

The mental damage came from planning and killing loads of people. Its irelevant if the method was superpowers, or screwdrivers.

[maidenhaver]

I don't know. I played GTA3 to absolute completion one summer, and I've shot millions of good guys in ww2, and I turned out ok.

[maidenhaver]

Tolkien has probably converted more people to Christianity than any other single person if we exclude Jesus and his apostles. This is one of the reasons I was so surprised that @Kalarion didn't know he explicitly stated his work is religious in nature, it was common knowledge for any Catholic schoolboy.
In a world where faith leaders instead of attacking Gygax decided to engage with him, they could have probably used D&D as outreach to youth. Gygax was an outspoken Christian.

How many boys were told they were going to hell for playing dnd by family or preachers, shrugged it, kept playing, and those bridges burned forever?

[Lhynn]

The protestant church is incredibly ********. it has done more harm to the religion in modern times than mudslimes or *****.

[1998]

This comes out 15th October





Fair warning though

[Acrux]

A new game from the guy who made Legionary's Life has been announced.

[Hauberk]

I liked the first game. I rarely look forward to a new release these days (because most new games are **** and/or laden with Infinitron propaganda), but this is an exception I think. Thanks for sharing, @Acrux.

I saw that the author has a demo on his site, by the way: LINK

[SoLong]

This comes out 15th October





Fair warning though

Why is a game about the celts getting funding by Germany? Are they playing in the time period where celts in what is now Germany got their skulls caved in by the Romans?

[1998]

This comes out 15th October





Fair warning though

Why is a game about the celts getting funding by Germany? Are they playing in the time period where celts in what is now Germany got their skulls caved in by the Romans?

Because...******** I guess.

[Oyster Sauce]

Oh ****, Gamers

[logincrash]

I'm thinking about replaying Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The first time I played it, I found it pretty janky, with loading screens taking up most of my gameplay time. So much so that the farthest I got was fighting the first bandit lord.
I read that you can make your kingdom with 0 taxes, which sounds like fun. Is the game in a more playable state than at release? And, frankly, is it any good past the "kill the bandit" prologue?

[Acrux]

I'm thinking about replaying Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The first time I played it, I found it pretty janky, with loading screens taking up most of my gameplay time. So much so that the farthest I got was fighting the first bandit lord.
I read that you can make your kingdom with 0 taxes, which sounds like fun. Is the game in a more playable state than at release? And, frankly, is it any good past the "kill the bandit" prologue?

The beginning of the game up to the fight with the Stag Lord is a really good rpg. I think the troll module is okay, too. I just find the rest of it to be too much of a slog to bother with, though. There's very little reactivity and the devs have a very particular path they want you to follow. Go to the wrong place on the map and your level 5 party will be facing level 15+ monsters, with no way to escape except reloading.

I believe it's pretty stable. The AI isn't great. There are a couple of AI mods, but they are only half completed and need more tweaking IMO.

[Manny V]

Oh ****, Gamers

best flash game.