What is an RPG?

[rusty_shackleford]

In no particular order:

• Combat, specifically combat utilizing the statistics of the character(s).
• The outcome of most important events must involve, but not be entirely determined by, some form of a randomizer.
• Quests, including a comprehensive quest.
• Character advancement of its statistics in some form, including through better equipment.
• Being able to interact with NPCs and/or the environment in a meaningful way.
• The character(s) or party must have some form of an inventory to hold items they collect on their adventures.
• The character(s) must be customizable, either at character creation or through other means during the game itself.

Any attempt to define CRPG that excludes early RPGs such as Wizardry or Ultima, or excludes tabletop RPGs such as AD&D or Traveller is inherently not valid.

.

[Tweed]

RPGs are stat-driven progression games where the characters get stronger over time by defeating enemies and sometimes by finishing quests. The two most basic examples of this format that I know are Wizardry and Dragon Quest with DQ borrowing heavily from Ultima and a little from Wiz (the original DQ can barely be called a JRPG) which both use hit points as a currency for exploration. The stronger you are, the longer you last, the longer you last, the farther you can go and the more stuff you can fight and so it goes and so it goes...

This at it's heart is an RPG, this was with us from the beginning.

Would you include games where stats are exclusively obtained from gear? Such as Monster Hunter. There is clear progression, and you get stronger by defeating enemies, but in the form of using their materials for new equipment.

When the progression is clear, it's just replacing experience points with gear on some kind of tier list.

[Poityu]

Regarding the last paragraph, I would agree with that, but for the sake of keeping Gamebooks and Games separate, stats and combat also ought to be a requirement for an RPG (video game = combat), not optional.

RPGs are stat-driven progression games where the characters get stronger over time by defeating enemies and sometimes by finishing quests.

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.
In the last paragraph I mixed up thinking adventure games (no stat) made from RPGMaker = labeled RPG in Japan.
(Thinking of games like Ib)

Sorry for the nonsense. :weeb:

[DemoGraph]

Quests, including a comprehensive quest.

Does Minecraft count? You have to kill the Void Dragon to finish the game, you're driven to it by the "achievement" tree.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I know when I see it.


Going down the list:

It can't be any game where you play a role. Overwatch and MOBAs have roles, but we don't consider them RPGs. Probably because both are games where whatever progression you make is reset at the end of the 15 to 30 minute match.

It can't be any game with stats or else again we are considering stuff like Overwatch.

It can't be any game with turn based combat or else we are considering chess an RPG. It's a board game.

It can't be any game with real time with pause combat or else we are considering RTS too.

It can't be any game with choices or else we are considering Star Fox 64 an RPG because you can different lanes to go down towards the final planet.

It can't be any game made before 2003 because then Super Mario Bros would be an RPG.

Someone said in this thread that an RPG is any game with party members, which would cover most, but not all cases. Dark Souls and Thief have only one playable characters. I consider Thief to be an RPG, and a lot of people consider Dark Souls to be one too.

Therefore it seems best just to say that the genre is a broad umbrella and does not have a strict definition.

[Tangerine]

I know when I see it.


Going down the list:

It can't be any game where you play a role. Overwatch and MOBAs have roles, but we don't consider them RPGs. Probably because both are games where whatever progression you make is reset at the end of the 15 to 30 minute match.

It can't be any game with stats or else again we are considering stuff like Overwatch.

It can't be any game with turn based combat or else we are considering chess an RPG. It's a board game.

It can't be any game with real time with pause combat or else we are considering RTS too.

It can't be any game with choices or else we are considering Star Fox 64 an RPG because you can different lanes to go down towards the final planet.

It can't be any game made before 2003 because then Super Mario Bros would be an RPG.

Someone said in this thread that an RPG is any game with party members, which would cover most, but not all cases. Dark Souls and Thief have only one playable characters. I consider Thief to be an RPG, and a lot of people consider Dark Souls to be one too.

Therefore it seems best just to say that the genre is a broad umbrella and does not have a strict definition.

This logic is like saying a sedan is not a car because bikes also have wheels.

[Kowe]

Short Answer: How closely it resembles its Tabletop RPG origin.

Those games are the main inspiration. Which in turn are an evolution of Wargames. Tweed mentioned them.
Wargames themselves come from traditional strategy games. Chess, Shogi, Xiangqi, Shatranj, and their predecessor Chaturanga. In connection to what Val wrote, that similarities exist is no coincidence.

Longer Answer:

Ordered by Importance:

► Poll Answers

Any game with stats
Most commonly, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence. With a XP-based system and Character Sheet(s).

Any game with turn-based combat
Its original gameplay system. Consequence of the limited computer performance in the early days.

Any game with real-time with pause combat
Evolution of the previous point. It still has the same underlying interactions.

Any game with choices and consequences
Not necessarily.
It can be a linear story leading up to the same end. With most ingame choices of killing x monster and helping y NPCs being inconsequential and only to simulate the growth of the Player Character(s) for the final encounter.

Any game made before 2003
No. Doesn't matter when it is made. We see Dungeon Crawlers, ARPGs, cRPGs and other subgenres getting modern titles.

► Counterpoints

There's Falllout 3 and 4
Yes, it's a mix of both FPS and RPG elements. More of a RPG because it isn't "point crosshair or center of screen on target, click and boom". It has an internal dice roll for the body part hits. A formula for the hit chance.
It applies to other games with the same design.

Other genres follow the pattern of Kill, Loot, Equip
Correct. It is better to refer it that as a pick-up of a weapon, item or other game elements.
What makes it different with RPGs is the interaction with Items and the Character Sheet(s).

In summary, it is the combination of its elements. Mainly: Dice Roll(s) and Character Stats.

[Norfleet]

Wargames themselves come from traditional strategy games. Chess, Shogi, Xiangqi, Shatranj, and their predecessor Chaturanga. In connection to what Val wrote, that similarities exist is no coincidence.

More the other way around. Wargames come from ACTUAL war. The games you describe are abstracted strategy games only connected to warfare on a tangential level: There may be units that are themed after actual military units, but there is no attempt to model their real behavior, just use them as a skin. In a wargame, the units are meant to represent actual units, their behavior is meant to model their actual behavior, and the entire thing is meant to simulate a real battle to some degree, to function as a military planning and training tool. As the game diverges away from its simulationist roots and starts to just be used for entertainment, it becomes more abstract and you get the games you named.

[Norfleet]

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.

Not even. Stats are a common element of games in general, but not required. RPG-7 is an RPG. Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Like a dog, there's no single characteristic you can list that must absolutely be present to be an RPG. It is the combination of elements and how they are used that makes something an RPG, a designation determined ultimately by consensus. Two different RPGs can share none of the listed elements, yet both can still be RPGs.

[Brugmans]

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.

Not even. Stats are a common element of games in general, but not required. RPG-7 is an RPG. Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Like a dog, there's no single characteristic you can list that must absolutely be present to be an RPG. It is the combination of elements and how they are used that makes something an RPG, a designation determined ultimately by consensus. Two different RPGs can share none of the listed elements, yet both can still be RPGs.

Cowboy and Indians is an RPG in the same way that surfing is a board game.

[A Chinese opium den]

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.

Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Real life has stats, libtard.

[Stack of Turtles]

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.

Not even. Stats are a common element of games in general, but not required. RPG-7 is an RPG. Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Like a dog, there's no single characteristic you can list that must absolutely be present to be an RPG. It is the combination of elements and how they are used that makes something an RPG, a designation determined ultimately by consensus. Two different RPGs can share none of the listed elements, yet both can still be RPGs.

Cowboy and Indians is an RPG in the same way that surfing is a board game.

I agree, but they are.

[Brugmans]

Not even. Stats are a common element of games in general, but not required. RPG-7 is an RPG. Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Like a dog, there's no single characteristic you can list that must absolutely be present to be an RPG. It is the combination of elements and how they are used that makes something an RPG, a designation determined ultimately by consensus. Two different RPGs can share none of the listed elements, yet both can still be RPGs.

Cowboy and Indians is an RPG in the same way that surfing is a board game.

I agree, but they are.

Sure, and Jew's ears grow under yarmulkes.

[A Chinese opium den]

Cowboy and Indians is an RPG in the same way that surfing is a board game.

I agree, but they are.

Sure, and Jew's ears grow under yarmulkes.

The big dog fella?

[Poityu]

Not even. Stats are a common element of games in general, but not required. RPG-7 is an RPG. Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.
Like a dog, there's no single characteristic you can list that must absolutely be present to be an RPG. It is the combination of elements and how they are used that makes something an RPG, a designation determined ultimately by consensus. Two different RPGs can share none of the listed elements, yet both can still be RPGs.

Sounds like a shapeless mass of infinite possibilities!
...maybe Womxn are also RPGs?

[Norfleet]

Sounds like a shapless mass of infinite possibilities!
...maybe Womxn are also RPGs?

It's really more like a shapeless mass of distinctly finite possibilities. It's very obvious to see that a thing is an RPG when you see it, but very hard to strictly define.

[Norfleet]

After second thought, it is true if one mentions RPG, the first thing comes to mind is a stats system.

Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Real life has stats, libtard.

But you don't get to use your real stats in the game. It's all "Bang, bang, I shot you!" and "No you didn't!".

[A Chinese opium den]

Cowboys and Indians is an RPG. Cops and Robbers is an RPG. Stats are not used in playing any of these.

Real life has stats, libtard.

But you don't get to use your real stats in the game. It's all "Bang, bang, I shot you!" and "No you didn't!".

Charisma check.

[Valter]

Please consult The Graph:

So I get the rest, but what does Early RPG Design Soup mean? What predated tabletop wargames and RPGs?

[rusty_shackleford]

Please consult The Graph:

So I get the rest, but what does Early RPG Design Soup mean? What predated tabletop wargames and RPGs?

As far as I am aware, there was no RPG available before the D&D game was created. The closest thing to it, aside from gtames of "Let's Pretend" sort were psychological ones and the Inter-nation Sims that were run popularly for a time in the 1960s.

Psychodrama, (refereed) kriegsspiel, braunstein, blackmoor

Gygax's quote was probably including only commercially available RPGs, and as far as I know, the term "RPG" was never even used until D&D.

[edit]
I'd recommend Poul Anderson's The Saturn Game, it's about psychodrama and I thought it was really good. It's a short story.

[enisey]

Please consult The Graph:

So I get the rest, but what does Early RPG Design Soup mean? What predated tabletop wargames and RPGs?

I'm speculating but I suppose historical reenactments could be considered the first roleplaying.

[Lhynn]

An rpg is whatever has the rpg tag on steam.
Every other answer is ********, wrong, and feminine.

[Tangerine]

An rpg is whatever has the rpg tag on steam.
Every other answer is ********, wrong, and feminine.

There's nothing more feminine than appeal to consensus.

[Lhynn]

An rpg is whatever has the rpg tag on steam.
Every other answer is ********, wrong, and feminine.

There's nothing more feminine than appeal to consensus.

Mostly wrong, the developers set the tag, though the consensus can add tags. In the end it hardly matters, diablo 4 is an rpg in the store, everyone thinks its an rpg, and what some ****** in a forum thinks is not important. It may be important when it comes to the quality of a title, but the genre?

My point is that prattling about something that doesnt matter, since nobody cares about what you think an rpg is, is feminine, its gay even, its on the level of arguing about pronouns or whats the name of "X shade of red". Stop.being.an.absolute.***.

[Acrux]

Who are you and how did you take over Lhynn's account?

[Lhynn]

Who are you and how did you take over Lhynn's account?

Ive had this argument too many times bro. Ive come to realize its folly. If theres anything thats defined by merchants its the tags. It happens with books, with movies, with music.

How well they live up to the genre and how well they stand on their own merits is what we should be discussing.

[J1M]

In no particular order:

• Combat, specifically combat utilizing the statistics of the character(s).
• The outcome of most important events must involve, but not be entirely determined by, some form of a randomizer.
• Quests, including a comprehensive quest.
• Character advancement of its statistics in some form, including through better equipment.
• Being able to interact with NPCs and/or the environment in a meaningful way.
• The character(s) or party must have some form of an inventory to hold items they collect on their adventures.
• The character(s) must be customizable, either at character creation or through other means during the game itself.

Any attempt to define CRPG that excludes early RPGs such as Wizardry or Ultima, or excludes tabletop RPGs such as AD&D or Traveller is inherently not valid.

If anyone could find some obvious gotchas that this doesn't(or does) cover, I'd be interested.
e.g., I consider Wizardry to have environment interactions covered through puzzles, traps, etc., The real enemy of Wizardry is, after all, the dungeon itself.

Dark Messiah seems to cross all of these off but doesn't quite feel like an RPG. Have joked about how RPGs let you sell things, but perhaps there needs to be another point. I would suggest one about the player having agency over where to travel.

[maidenhaver]

RPGs need roads. No roads? Not a rpg.

[J1M]

Devil's Advocate: what if RPG is not a genre to aspire to and is instead a genre games slip back into when the other aspects of the game are not strong enough for a well-defined genre?

Nobody really accepts that NBA 2k is an RPG because the players have stats and progression. The conflict resolution is so clearly a sports contest it is a sports game.

Extend this example to racing games, metroidvanias, shooters, and so on.

Early RPGs are a real grab-bag of mechanics. Simplistic turn-based tactics, adventure game pixel hunting and combining random inventory items, choose you own adventure, mazes, real-time combat, solo, parties, and more.

TLDR: RPG = a game (not just an activity) that doesn't have a proper genre?

[Valter]

Devil's Advocate: what if RPG is not a genre to aspire to and is instead a genre games slip back into when the other aspects of the game are not strong enough for a well-defined genre?

Nobody really accepts that NBA 2k is an RPG because the players have stats and progression. The conflict resolution is so clearly a sports contest it is a sports game.

Extend this example to racing games, metroidvanias, shooters, and so on.

Early RPGs are a real grab-bag of mechanics. Simplistic turn-based tactics, adventure game pixel hunting and combining random inventory items, choose you own adventure, mazes, real-time combat, solo, parties, and more.

TLDR: RPG = a game (not just an activity) that doesn't have a proper genre?

This kinda goes in line with how I view genre labeling in games. The "type" of game it is should denote its primary activity first and foremost. You can craft stuff in Call of Duty, but that's not the main activity. Shooting people in first person is. It is not a Crafting game, it's a First Person Shooter game. Same with sports and all other games. That's how they're distinguished for the most part. RPGs (the video games) are the odd children cursed with a label so vague that 40 years later people still haven't reached a consensus on what an RPG really is. Though they're not the only ones, I'd say "Adventure" games are also in the same spot.