Pillars of Eternity

[Tweed]

NOOOO FOR YOUR BRAND NEW IP YOU NEED TO MAKE EVERY CLASS OPTIMIZED FOR THE EXACT SAME BUILD THEY HAVE BEEN FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING JOOOOOSH

"I've balanced everything so there's no bad builds and people can play however they want, BRILLIANT! NOOOO! STOP MINMAXING THE MOST EFFECTIVE STATS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

"YOU CAN'T HECKIN' CAST GREASE ON THE MOST POWERFUL BOSS IN THE GAME AND BEAT IT TO DEATH! STOP ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!"

[rusty_shackleford]

Sorry but pillows did a lot right and many of the criticisms leveraged at it are poor.

It's a ground-up rewrite of tabletop rules(not being specific here because it pulls from a lot of sources, obviously) to fit a computer game(& its strengths) and does a great job at it, mostly. The main issues aren't mechanical but design. Consider all the spells you get — how many feel like they were designed to be in a game rather than by someone that lives in the game's world? Near all of them. There is nothing like Unseen Servant(AKA Magehand in later editions). Most magic cannot even be used outside of combat for pure balance reasons.

Pillows making most, if not all, attributes useful to some degree is good, but there is dissonance between the design and the implementation.


I should replay it again while taking notes.

If anything, I'd say it has issues in not going far enough to leverage the strength of computers in terms of things like damage simulation, wounds, etc., Most features that are considered burdensome at tabletop are great fits for computer RPGs and where computers are a big win.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm unsure if @J1M has played Pillars of Eternity but it actually seems like something he'd appreciate, focusing entirely on mechanical design anyways.

A designer's willingness to realize that dice do not belong in computer RPGs is a very good proxy for how much they understand computer RPGs rather than wearing an RPG costume as a way to tell a story. On one end you have designers that performatively show dice physically rolling, on the other end you have complex simulations using mathematical models that tend to make use of random number generators.

[Fitz]

Flawed or not Pillars is pretty lit. It has some great ideas, the RTwP combat is superb, the sound and visuals of it mesh really well and the whole game flows nicely. It's not perfect but it's for sure one of the modern day classics. It pays homage to a lot of its predecessors and it's a really good (I'm not using perfect here, but maybe I should) bridge between the different eras of crpgs. That's not an easy thing to do and regardless of personal opinions it deserves some respect for where it stands and what it did for crpg/gaming history. Not to mention the whole kickstarter thing is a crazy interesting piece of lore that not a lot of games have.

HQ having a review about it and a recommend/or not in the curator page would only bring more credibility to the place.

[logincrash]

Consider all the spells you get — how many feel like they were designed to be in a game rather than by someone that lives in the game's world? Near all of them. There is nothing like Unseen Servant(AKA Magehand in later editions). Most magic cannot even be used outside of combat for pure balance reasons.

This is kinda interesting when it comes to vidya in general. To what extent does gameplay appear not only to the player IRL, but to characters in-game? Are gameplay elements (spells, abilities, etc.) simply abstractions or are they actual in-universe concepts? Is it better or worse when they are one-to-one and the characters pretty much see and know what player sees and knows?
I remember reading a Dragon Age fanfic and one of the characters asked a mage to "cast a Burning Hands" on something to disinfect it. I thought that sounded very strange and awkward.

[Oyster Sauce]

NOOOO FOR YOUR BRAND NEW IP YOU NEED TO MAKE EVERY CLASS OPTIMIZED FOR THE EXACT SAME BUILD THEY HAVE BEEN FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING JOOOOOSH

"I've balanced everything so there's no bad builds and people can play however they want, BRILLIANT! NOOOO! STOP MINMAXING THE MOST EFFECTIVE STATS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

"YOU CAN'T HECKIN' CAST GREASE ON THE MOST POWERFUL BOSS IN THE GAME AND BEAT IT TO DEATH! STOP ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!"

If every fighter should have exactly 18 strength and 14 dexterity and 8 intelligence then it's a pointless system and the classes should all be premade. And if the difficulty isn't tuned around having the most optimal build that you looked up before installing the game (like you do), you might as well open the console and enable godmode.

[J1M]

I'm unsure if @J1M has played Pillars of Eternity but it actually seems like something he'd appreciate, focusing entirely on mechanical design anyways.

A designer's willingness to realize that dice do not belong in computer RPGs is a very good proxy for how much they understand computer RPGs rather than wearing an RPG costume as a way to tell a story. On one end you have designers that performatively showing dice physically rolling, on the other end you have complex simulations using mathematical models that tend to make use of random number generators.

I liked the RTS aspect of clearing the maps. I absolutely hated the names and terminology used. It really detracted from the plot, story, and characters. In addition to not retaining anything about the story, it also meant I used party of mercenaries.

Didn't enjoy the "all stats are good" philosophy. That was just obfuscation of which stats are good. I'd rather not have to solve that riddle to play the game. Just give me the correct stats or some orthogonal options.

I know the game has some optional extreme challenges, but overall it felt like I could just use the same tactic for everything so if there was much mechanical depth it wasn't highlighted.

[rusty_shackleford]

Consider all the spells you get — how many feel like they were designed to be in a game rather than by someone that lives in the game's world? Near all of them. There is nothing like Unseen Servant(AKA Magehand in later editions). Most magic cannot even be used outside of combat for pure balance reasons.

This is kinda interesting when it comes to vidya in general. To what extent does gameplay appear not only to the player IRL, but to characters in-game? Are gameplay elements (spells, abilities, etc.) simply abstractions or are they actual in-universe concepts? Is it better or worse when they are one-to-one and the characters pretty much see and know what player sees and knows?
I remember reading a Dragon Age fanfic and one of the characters asked a mage to "cast a Burning Hands" on something to disinfect it. I thought that sounded very strange and awkward.

Many D&D spells (TSR D&D) were designed from an in-universe POV so you ended up with spells that make sense from a character that lives in said world.

There's a bunch of 1st level spells that are really good examples of something that you could definitely see a hedge-mage knowing and making use of

Mending:

This spell repairs small breaks or tears in objects. It will weld a broken ring, chain link, medallion, or slender dagger, providing but one break exists. Ceramic or wooden objects with multiple breaks can be invisibly rejoined to be as strong as new. A hole in a leather sack or wineskin is completely healed over by a mending spell. This spell does not, by itself, repair magical items of any type. One turn after the spell is cast, the magic of the joining fades, and the effect cannot be magically dispelled. The maximum volume of material the caster can mend is 1 cubic foot per level.

or Dictation:

This spell animates a quill to write upon a prepared parchment any words spoken by the wizard, or those within 10 feet of them. The quill functions as normal, needing to be refilled at an ink pot, but the magic of the spell prevents ink from dripping or running. The text is as smooth as the paper and writing instrument allow for.

It is useful for recording conversations, verbal agreements, interrogations, or even notes or observations if the wizard doesn't want to take the time to write them down himself. Generally, a person reading aloud takes about one to five minutes to read a page, depending on how many words are on page. If a conversation moves too quickly for the quill to keep up, it will default to the caster's speech only. If the caster speaks too quickly for the quill to keep up, it may begin to skip over words and make the text difficult to parse.

Foreign languages are not translated, although foreign words are given the correct alphabetic spelling in the wizard's native tongue; for example, the phrase "cest la vie" would appear as it does here, with no English translation, but a phrase or name in Arabic or Chinese would not be transcribed in those alphabets. Magical spells and invocations are not recorded, so this spell can't be used to create a backup copy of a scroll even as it's read by the wizard, but a clever wizard may be able to record a magical item's command word if an enemy within ranges uses it while the spell is in effect.

The material components for this spell is the blank page, scroll, or paper that the dictation will appear on, as well as quill and ink. This must be prepared with a special wash of vinegar, which brings the cost to 10 gold pieces per page so readied.

[rusty_shackleford]

And if the difficulty isn't tuned around having the most optimal build that you looked up before installing the game (like you do), you might as well open the console and enable godmode.

fact

Don't look up builds. Outside of very certain RPGs like Knights of the Chalice 2, or perhaps the Pathfinder games on Unfair, these games were not designed around optimized builds. When creating a character, I will take a preset if one is available or come up with an idea and create a build for it. It's fine to not be optimized, most games are designed around a non-optimized character being able to complete it.

[Tweed]

NOOOO FOR YOUR BRAND NEW IP YOU NEED TO MAKE EVERY CLASS OPTIMIZED FOR THE EXACT SAME BUILD THEY HAVE BEEN FOR THE PAST 60 YEARS DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING JOOOOOSH

"I've balanced everything so there's no bad builds and people can play however they want, BRILLIANT! NOOOO! STOP MINMAXING THE MOST EFFECTIVE STATS! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!"

"YOU CAN'T HECKIN' CAST GREASE ON THE MOST POWERFUL BOSS IN THE GAME AND BEAT IT TO DEATH! STOP ITTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!"

If every fighter should have exactly 18 strength and 14 dexterity and 8 intelligence then it's a pointless system and the classes should all be premade. And if the difficulty isn't tuned around having the most optimal build that you looked up before installing the game (like you do), you might as well open the console and enable godmode.

I played PoE when it was first released, no guide to look up.

[Tweed]

If every fighter should have exactly 18 strength and 14 dexterity and 8 intelligence then it's a pointless system and the classes should all be premade.

And thanks for agreeing that PoE's system didn't change anything and was flawed from the word go.

[Oyster Sauce]

If every fighter should have exactly 18 strength and 14 dexterity and 8 intelligence then it's a pointless system and the classes should all be premade.

And thanks for agreeing that PoE's system didn't change anything and was flawed from the word go.

I'm sensing a lack of consistency in your argument

[Roguey]

I'm unsure if @J1M has played Pillars of Eternity but it actually seems like something he'd appreciate, focusing entirely on mechanical design anyways.

A designer's willingness to realize that dice do not belong in computer RPGs is a very good proxy for how much they understand computer RPGs rather than wearing an RPG costume as a way to tell a story. On one end you have designers that performatively show dice physically rolling, on the other end you have complex simulations using mathematical models that tend to make use of random number generators.

Counterpoint to this is that it makes RPGs both more confusing for newbies and less fun for experts to powergame. Easy math makes it easier to understand. Sticking to the d20 isn't ideal though. Yeah, it's too iconic for D&D to ever abandon, but crpgs can use smoother, less chaotic distributions:


Since the dice aren't real, there's even no problem using odd-numbered "dice" like a d6 plus two d7s to make an even 20 here or going one more for 4d5s.

With regard to PoE's systems I mostly agree with this fellow here

i used to agree that 'Sawyerism' and 'overbalancing' was a problem with the game design of Pillars of Eternity, then i took time to understand its systems and realized that ridiculous builds are very much still possible.

it just requires a modicum of intelligence to overcome—as opposed to copying already well-known ways to exploit AD&D2's non-linear power scaling.

RPGCodex has been, as they say, filtered.

the RPGCodex critique of Pillars - regarding 'Sawyerism' and 'hating fun' - betrays the opposite of tactical depth. what they fear is a game that doesn't let them rush to obtain a 25 strength belt and auto-attack everything to death. Sawyerism is for people with taste and skill.

Though he's incorrect about the grognard preference. Maximizing strength and autoatttacking everything - that's the Roguey way to play. From what I can tell, the grognards want to look at a long list of spells, commit it to memory, scout out any given encounter, and then recall a specific combination of spells to make it trivial, which should be greater than one, but far fewer than "any combination of spells will do." Ivory Tower Players as Monte Cook would call them.

[Tweed]

Wow, this place really is done. People praising Pillow's hideous design.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm unsure if @J1M has played Pillars of Eternity but it actually seems like something he'd appreciate, focusing entirely on mechanical design anyways.

A designer's willingness to realize that dice do not belong in computer RPGs is a very good proxy for how much they understand computer RPGs rather than wearing an RPG costume as a way to tell a story. On one end you have designers that performatively show dice physically rolling, on the other end you have complex simulations using mathematical models that tend to make use of random number generators.

Counterpoint to this is that it makes RPGs both more confusing for newbies and less fun for experts to powergame. Easy math makes it easier to understand. Sticking to the d20 isn't ideal though. Yeah, it's too iconic for D&D to ever abandon, but crpgs can use smoother, less chaotic distributions:


Since the dice aren't real, there's even no problem using odd-numbered "dice" like a d6 plus two d7s to make an even 20 here or going one more for 4d5s.

With regard to PoE's systems I mostly agree with this fellow here

i used to agree that 'Sawyerism' and 'overbalancing' was a problem with the game design of Pillars of Eternity, then i took time to understand its systems and realized that ridiculous builds are very much still possible.

it just requires a modicum of intelligence to overcome—as opposed to copying already well-known ways to exploit AD&D2's non-linear power scaling.

RPGCodex has been, as they say, filtered.

the RPGCodex critique of Pillars - regarding 'Sawyerism' and 'hating fun' - betrays the opposite of tactical depth. what they fear is a game that doesn't let them rush to obtain a 25 strength belt and auto-attack everything to death. Sawyerism is for people with taste and skill.

Though he's incorrect about the grognard preference. Maximizing strength and autoatttacking everything - that's the Roguey way to play. From what I can tell, the grognards want to look at a long list of spells, commit it to memory, scout out any given encounter, and then recall a specific combination of spells to make it trivial, which should be greater than one, but far fewer than "any combination of spells will do." Ivory Tower Players as Monte Cook would call them.

I guarantee people had way more trouble just trying to understand descending AC in Baldur's Gate than near any part of Pillars of Eternity.

[rusty_shackleford]

Wow, this place really is done. People praising Pillow's hideous design.

You got filtered, maybe go look up some underrail builds and cheat another playthrough of that?

[Acrux]

Wow, this place really is done. People praising Pillow's hideous design.

It feels like when people started unironically praising the SW prequels as great movies.

[rusty_shackleford]

Pillows is still a poor game because it's boring and poorly paced, but the "SAWYERISM" is not the cause of it. Idea thought up by people who think clicking dialogue options is gameplay, probably.

[Tweed]

The alleged mechanics of PoE changes nothing about—

Wait, what am I doing? Yeah, okay, you do you.

[Oyster Sauce]

Every weapon type having a little bonus attached is so good. My chanter was a medium-armored off-tank with a shield and a hatchet, because hatchets give a slight defense buff.

The weapon class distribution isn't bad either. Not great, but definitely not bad.

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wi ... ue_weapons

[Acrux]

Turn based mode is now official. I heard it was in bad shape just a few weeks ago.

Greetings Watchers,

The wait is over and the Turn-Based Mode for the original Pillars of Eternity is now live!

This new feature lets you experience Pillars 1 in a whole new way, with combat fully reimagined around turn-based pacing and flexibility. If you enjoyed experimenting with the system in Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire, we hope you’ll find this version both familiar and improved so please let us know what you think.

We’d also like to make sure we get a message to all those that played and sent in feedback on the Public Beta to help Turn-Based Mode become the best it can be: THANK YOU! Furthermore, we recognize that this is a large feature and while we have squashed the largest bugs that presented during the beta window, more issues may yet to be discovered. Still, please know that we will continue to release patches for this feature for a short while longer. So if you have an issue or would like to share feedback please contact us via https://www.support.obsidian.net.

Thanks!


And now for what to expect in this update.


Major Features
Turn-Based Mode (TBM) has been added to Pillars of Eternity!

Turns are now influenced by character speed, combat pacing has been adjusted for increased lethality, and certain actions (such as swapping weapons, drinking potions, or enabling modals) are now classified as free actions with per-turn limits.

Players can select Turn-Based Mode when starting a game or swap between real-time with pause and turn-based combat in the options menu, keybinding, or HUD toggle button.

General
Added support to change to the original Pillars of Eternity main menu art by clicking base game and DLC icons.

Combat and Mechanics – Turn-Based Mode Specific
TBM Turns have been reworked compared to Deadfire:

Characters no longer take 1 turn per round. Instead characters take turns as frequently as their Initiative (based on RTwP Recovery) allows.

Faster characters (high dexterity, lighter armor, and/or speed improving effects) may end up taking multiple turns each round, while slower characters may act less or even potentially skip an entire round, if encumbered by enough speed penalties.

TBM Lethality has been significantly increased over RTwP:

In addition to legacy lethality changes from Deadfire (increased Graze Range, reduced Miss Range, Basic attacks perform Full Attacks, etc…), TBM now increases damage (dealt by any source) by 35% globally.

This change helps to keep combat moving forward and highlights careful tactical decision making.

TBM Intellect has been reworked vs. RTwP:

The effect of Intellect on duration in TBM has been increased from +/- 5% → 10% per point.

TBM Initiative has been reworked from Deadfire’s:

The new formula for Initiative is:

Base RTwP Recovery * 2 + 1

All modifiers to initiative happen after the above calculation.

First turn initiative uses a default recovery of 2s.

The minimum initiative a character may achieve can never be below 1.

Initiative from Reload Time is reduced by 25%.

TBM Free Actions have been reworked from Deadfire’s:

Swapping weapon sets, drinking potions, and toggling modals (or within a modal group) are all now considered free actions.

Each of these Free Actions are now limited to 1 activation per turn within their respective action type category.

E.g. you may drink a potion and change your active paladin aura, but you may not drink two or more potions in the same turn, or change paladin aura → attack → and then change it back.

Additionally, no individual Free Action may be activated more than once in a turn.

TBM Phrase progression has been reworked from Deadfire’s:

As turns are no longer bound to 1 turn per round, phrases no longer progress 1 phrase per turn.

Phrases now progress based on the amount of initiative (recovery) that has elapsed since the Chanter’s last turn (or the start of combat).

TBM Interrupt mechanics differ from Deadfire’s:

Successful interrupts will add their interrupt value to the Initiative value of the victim’s next turn (effectively pushing back their turn).

Interrupts in TBM have had their values increased over their RTwP equivalents.

An interrupt can still cancel a victim’s pending spell casts if successful.

Combat and Mechanics – General
Using quick items or disarming traps while spiritshifted will no longer cause the turn to become unresponsive.

Overlapping Unconscious and Prone effects no longer allow a character to move freely.

Potion of Major Recovery no longer adds duration to hostile effects instead of reducing it.

Fixed an issue that would cause the bonus from the Holy Power spell to sometimes stack and not be removed.

Stacked Stun/Paralyze/Petrify etc... effects should no longer cause characters to be disabled for longer than intended.

The Helwax mold should now once again be usable.

Visual and Audio
Cipher focus HUD FX are once again visible.

Fixed characters sometimes being stuck in a running animation during cutscenes.

The title screen background should no longer appear with a delay.

User Interface and Interaction
Added a keybinding and HUD button to toggle TBM freely while outside of combat.

Spacebar and Enter keys are now the default bindings to end turn while in a TBM combat.

Added keybindings for Delay turn, End turn, and the Combat Speed slider.

Smart camera is now present in TBM and may be optionally disabled in game options.

Accuracy tooltips can once again be viewed in the inventory screen.

Burial Isle cutscenes no longer prevent future actions from being cancelled or similar strange behaviors.

Fixed an issue where the combat log would display erratically on certain resolutions.

Fixed Player-controlled characters sometimes being unable to attack if any Class Behavior is active.

Fixed an issue that allowed summoned Concelhaut to be looted after death.

Fixed cursor changing to the default one while hovering over party members outside of combat.

Fast mode now can now be enabled without toggling off slow mode first.

Localization

Resolved translation errors with Wizard's Wall of Draining spell on Polish language.

Korean localization should now be available and updated in all versions of the game.

[The_Mask]

Pillars of Eternity \u2013 Turn-Based Mode Trailer OUT NOW

[Tweed]

UU just got knocked off of Rusty's greatest game of all time throne.

[Boontaker]

The naked cold wizard taking 20 turns while you freeze to death in your heavy armor

[wndrbr]

I thought they've added the TB mode years ago. Was it in beta state all this time?

[rusty_shackleford]

I thought they've added the TB mode years ago. Was it in beta state all this time?

It was added to deadfire some years back when porting to other platforms

[wndrbr]

I thought they've added the TB mode years ago. Was it in beta state all this time?

It was added to deadfire some years back when porting to other platforms

I'm aware of Deadfire, but PoE1 received the TB patch too a couple of years later.

[Acrux]

No, they started this work back in Oct 2025.

[yangg]

The worst "qol" for this game. Who asked for this ? DoS Larian fans ? RtwP is great, just works. If I were Obsidian I would add a "bug" to turn based mode: once in a while turn based disables and real time takes the place so you get wiped hahaha all the turn based chill goes to drain.

[Rand]

No, they started this work back in Oct 2025.

Yup. But it had a ton of problems.
I'm starting over to see if they fixed them or not.
I'll report on my findings.

The worst "qol" for this game. Who asked for this ? DoS Larian fans ? RtwP is great, just works.

I like turn-based more than some RTWP chaos scrum that I get 3 seconds of gameplay, then a stop to decide what to do 5 times in a row as things change.
Meanwhile I'm trying to get someone to do something useful while the clock is running and the AI is bugging out.