What currency should post-apocalyptic games use?

[maidenhaver]

The point of money in antiquity wasn't to barter, ironically it was to cover the value of things too dear to trade. Two tribes go to war, because one killed a son from the other tribe. To stop this from death-spiralling, a king like Melchizedek would arbitrate and spread his wealth to make peace between them, so his frontier didn't collapse. Bartering works for most people in a post-apoc or ancient setting.

[Lhynn]

Bartering is always more interesting in those settings.

Are there any games that have actual bartering? All of the ones I can think of have a currency and a light feel of bartering because NPCs have limited currency.

The most obvious example would be path of exile. There is no currency there. People just sort of adopted the most universally useful thing and started to use it as that.

[Norfleet]

The most obvious example would be path of exile. There is no currency there. People just sort of adopted the most universally useful thing and started to use it as that.

In other words, they made a currency, yes. Same thing happened back in Diablo 2 with SoJs: The official "gold" currency was too inflated and too unstable, so the players simply came up with their own currency. An even funnier story comes from an old MUD back in the day: There was an original currency, which, like most game currencies, eventually suffered hyperinflation and because unusable. The devs responded by releasing a new replacement currency, for which people could trade in their old currency. The NEW currency, of course, hyperinflated as well in short order...causing players to actually go BACK to using the OLD currency, which, due to no longer being printed and having had much of its stocks destroyed, was no longer inflatable.

[rusty_shackleford]

Bartering is always more interesting in those settings.

Are there any games that have actual bartering? All of the ones I can think of have a currency and a light feel of bartering because NPCs have limited currency.

The most obvious example would be path of exile. There is no currency there. People just sort of adopted the most universally useful thing and started to use it as that.

Then that's the currency

[Havitner]

Pull tabs

[Lhynn]

Are there any games that have actual bartering? All of the ones I can think of have a currency and a light feel of bartering because NPCs have limited currency.

The most obvious example would be path of exile. There is no currency there. People just sort of adopted the most universally useful thing and started to use it as that.

Then that's the currency

Its not tracked as currency, and there are people that have enough that they wont trade for it.

[Norfleet]

Its not tracked as currency, and there are people that have enough that they wont trade for it.

Neither of these arguments is relevant to its status as a de facto currency, though.

[Lhynn]

Its not tracked as currency, and there are people that have enough that they wont trade for it.

Neither of these arguments is relevant to its status as a de facto currency, though.

Its a good argument to point out that its not a "de facto currency."
Much like rice or cows or fur are not a de facto currency, but can and have been used as one. We are still essentially talking about bartering.

[Stack of Turtles]

Its not tracked as currency, and there are people that have enough that they wont trade for it.

Neither of these arguments is relevant to its status as a de facto currency, though.

Its a good argument to point out that its not a "de facto currency."
Much like rice or cows or fur are not a de facto currency, but can and have been used as one. We are still essentially talking about bartering.

By definition, it stops being barter as soon as you start regifting the thing you were traded to someone else instead of using it yourself.

[Tweed]

The most obvious example would be path of exile. There is no currency there. People just sort of adopted the most universally useful thing and started to use it as that.

Then that's the currency

Its not tracked as currency, and there are people that have enough that they wont trade for it.

Stone of Jordan says hi.

[Lhynn]

Neither of these arguments is relevant to its status as a de facto currency, though.

Its a good argument to point out that its not a "de facto currency."
Much like rice or cows or fur are not a de facto currency, but can and have been used as one. We are still essentially talking about bartering.

By definition, it stops being barter as soon as you start regifting the thing you were traded to someone else instead of using it yourself.

So if you get a cow, then trade it for a horse, then you trade the horse for a woman, then you trade the woman for a dog, then you trade the dog for a weapon, then you use the weapon to hunt, that would mean, according to your logic, that the cow, the horse, the woman and the dog are all currencies.

[Stack of Turtles]

Its a good argument to point out that its not a "de facto currency."
Much like rice or cows or fur are not a de facto currency, but can and have been used as one. We are still essentially talking about bartering.

By definition, it stops being barter as soon as you start regifting the thing you were traded to someone else instead of using it yourself.

So if you get a cow, then trade it for a horse, then you trade the horse for a woman, then you trade the woman for a dog, then you trade the dog for a weapon, then you use the weapon to hunt, that would mean, according to your logic, that the cow, the horse, the woman and the dog are all currencies.

Quest items are a currency.

[Norfleet]

Its a good argument to point out that its not a "de facto currency."
Much like rice or cows or fur are not a de facto currency, but can and have been used as one. We are still essentially talking about bartering.

All you've argued is that the game doesn't extend official recognition to it as a currency, and that some people consider themselves too rich to want more money. If they actually wanted to buy anything, they'd simply use their money. None of that changes the status of it as a de facto currency widely used by the playerbase.

[Lhynn]

IIT I learned barter is impossible, its all currency trading.

[Stack of Turtles]

IIT I learned barter is impossible, its all currency trading.

Did you think people in premodern tribal villages did fetch quest chains???

[Norfleet]

IIT I learned barter is impossible, its all currency trading.

The difference between barter and currency is that in currency, the "good" is an standardized, portable, fungible thing that the receiver doesn't necessarily want in and of itself, but knows that they can reliably exchange it for whatever it is they DO want. If I trade someone a cow for something, that's barter because cows are not really portable or fungible (although possibly standardized). If I trade someone a cowcoin (works based on proof of steak) for that thing, that's currency. Similarly, Diablo 2 SoJ economy fits all these criteria: Although it is an object, it's considered standardized (basically everyone there recognized this), portable (only takes up a single inventory space), and fungible (all SoJs are the same). The receiver doesn't necessarily want the SoJ itself, but knows they can exchange it for something they do later. Thus, it has become a currency.

Did you think people in premodern tribal villages did fetch quest chains???

Obviously, they had wampum.

[Stack of Turtles]

IIT I learned barter is impossible, its all currency trading.

The difference between barter and currency is that in currency, the "good" is an standardized, portable, fungible thing that the receiver doesn't necessarily want in and of itself, but knows that they can reliably exchange it for whatever it is they DO want. If I trade someone a cow for something, that's barter because cows are not really portable or fungible (although possibly standardized). If I trade someone a cowcoin (works based on proof of steak) for that thing, that's currency. Similarly, Diablo 2 SoJ economy fits all these criteria: Although it is an object, it's considered standardized (basically everyone there recognized this), portable (only takes up a single inventory space), and fungible (all SoJs are the same). The receiver doesn't necessarily want the SoJ itself, but knows they can exchange it for something they do later. Thus, it has become a currency.

Did you think people in premodern tribal villages did fetch quest chains???

Obviously, they had wampum.

Portable and fungible are not, strictly, requirements: the Rai stones of Yap are considered currency.

[Norfleet]

Portable and fungible are not, strictly, requirements: the Rai stones of Yap are considered currency.

I'm not sure that the stones themselves were the currency, but rather, the backing. They way they operated was more like a system of backed currency where the backing store is simply held in a vault somewhere and the ownership of that backing store transferred without moving the item itself.

It does go to show how people isolated on islands can develop some pretty weird systems because they can't escape and are stuck with each other. These guys essentially invented blockchain before computers and Bitcoin.

[rusty_shackleford]

IIT I learned barter is impossible, its all currency trading.

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things
an obvious historical example is livestock, the latin word pecunia means money, it's derived from the word for cattle.

it differs from barter in that people barter for things they either want or think they can barter for other things they want

[Lhynn]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money, dogs are a currency, therefore money. Everything is a currency, bartering doesnt exist. Peak RPGHQ right there.

[rusty_shackleford]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money, dogs are a currency, therefore money. Everything is a currency, bartering doesnt exist. Peak RPGHQ right there.

dogs would be a poor example outside of china

[Lhynn]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money, dogs are a currency, therefore money. Everything is a currency, bartering doesnt exist. Peak RPGHQ right there.

dogs would be a poor example outside of china

Depends on the setting, in the middle east they are more valuable than women, or so Ive heard from some *******, I wouldnt know.

[Stack of Turtles]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money, dogs are a currency, therefore money. Everything is a currency, bartering doesnt exist. Peak RPGHQ right there.

No society ever had this sort of "institutionalized" barter you seem to be imagining.

[Lhynn]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money, dogs are a currency, therefore money. Everything is a currency, bartering doesnt exist. Peak RPGHQ right there.

No society ever had this sort of "institutionalized" barter you seem to be imagining.

What are you talking about? Are you insane or just plain ********?

[Norfleet]

an obvious historical example is livestock, the latin word pecunia means money, it's derived from the word for cattle.

Yes, and the reason they invented CowCoin was precisely because hauling around cows everywhere was too awkward and inconvenient.

[DemoGraph]

currency is anything people generally agree is something they're willing to accept to trade for other things

Barter doesnt exist, its all money. Cows are a currency, therefore money, women are a currency, therefore money

URMUM is definitely affected by inflation.