What currency should post-apocalyptic games use?

[rusty_shackleford]

I think the bottlecap of Fallout is silly, and I'm referring specifically to the first game. Any other entries using it is beyond ridiculous and not worth discussing. Maybe, perhaps, the water merchants were just not very bright. But with any access to some pre-war reading material they could have accumulated enough knowledge to know how to make currency resistant to counterfeiting while also being currency they control tied to the their resource: potable water. Which is presumably the entire point, a token worth some water.

What currencies do you envision a post-apocalyptic society using?

[Tweed]

Ammo.

[rusty_shackleford]

Ammo.

What are you doing to make sure every other piece of ammo isn't emptied and loaded with gravel?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

If realism matters that much to you, then it's okay to just have standard currency systems. Trying to be overly creative might be counterproductive unless you really think it through.

Bottlecaps are good. It has limited alternative use; people aren't using bottlecaps for anything and the technology to mold plastic has been lost, so they're not melting down bottlecaps. They can't make more bottlecaps. New bottlecaps can only been introduced into the economy by going out into the world and finding new, unopened coca cola bottles. Bottle caps are fungible; they are light, they are all roughly the same size, they all look the same, easily identifiable as a bottlecap. Bottlecaps are durable.

Fungibility matters. The problem with the magic jewels as currency from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive is that they are not fungible. Every jewel is cut differently. They're all different. You don't have $10 jewels. And they're encased in glass and fragile. Same issue with ammo like in Metro 2033.

[rusty_shackleford]

Ammo.

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

[Oyster Sauce]

BPD women

[rusty_shackleford]

If realism matters that much to you, then it's okay to just have standard currency systems. Trying to be overly creative might be counterproductive unless you really think it through.

Bottlecaps are good. It has limited alternative use; people aren't using bottlecaps for anything and the technology to mold plastic has been lost, so they're not melting down bottlecaps. They can't make more bottlecaps. New bottlecaps can only been introduced into the economy by going out into the world and finding new, unopened coca cola bottles. Bottle caps are fungible; they are light, they are all roughly the same size, they all look the same, easily identifiable as a bottlecap. Bottlecaps are durable.

Fungibility matters. The problem with the magic jewels as currency from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive is that they are not fungible. Every jewel is cut differently. They're all different. You don't have $10 jewels. And they're encased in glass and fragile. Same issue with ammo like in Metro 2033.

The issue with bottle caps is you don't control the supply, which is a major issue if you're the guy who owns the thing that it's traded for.

[Tweed]

Ammo.

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

Guess they'll just have to shoot someone.

[Tweed]

If realism matters that much to you, then it's okay to just have standard currency systems. Trying to be overly creative might be counterproductive unless you really think it through.

Bottlecaps are good. It has limited alternative use; people aren't using bottlecaps for anything and the technology to mold plastic has been lost, so they're not melting down bottlecaps. They can't make more bottlecaps. New bottlecaps can only been introduced into the economy by going out into the world and finding new, unopened coca cola bottles. Bottle caps are fungible; they are light, they are all roughly the same size, they all look the same, easily identifiable as a bottlecap. Bottlecaps are durable.

Fungibility matters. The problem with the magic jewels as currency from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive is that they are not fungible. Every jewel is cut differently. They're all different. You don't have $10 jewels. And they're encased in glass and fragile. Same issue with ammo like in Metro 2033.

Who's gonna mint money after the bombs fall? Fiat currency is only valuable because the government says it is. No government, no value.

[Oyster Sauce]

Ammo.

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

This is a realistic problem that would be interesting if it were to happen in a game. I wouldn't expect an adhoc currency system post-Samson to be perfect.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

If realism matters that much to you, then it's okay to just have standard currency systems. Trying to be overly creative might be counterproductive unless you really think it through.

Bottlecaps are good. It has limited alternative use; people aren't using bottlecaps for anything and the technology to mold plastic has been lost, so they're not melting down bottlecaps. They can't make more bottlecaps. New bottlecaps can only been introduced into the economy by going out into the world and finding new, unopened coca cola bottles. Bottle caps are fungible; they are light, they are all roughly the same size, they all look the same, easily identifiable as a bottlecap. Bottlecaps are durable.

Fungibility matters. The problem with the magic jewels as currency from Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archive is that they are not fungible. Every jewel is cut differently. They're all different. You don't have $10 jewels. And they're encased in glass and fragile. Same issue with ammo like in Metro 2033.

The issue with bottle caps is you don't control the supply, which is a major issue if you're the guy who owns the thing that it's traded for.

European kings did not own all of the gold in the world too. Theoretically, someone could have sailed across the ocean, found a huge stockpile of gold and silver and brought an enormous volume back, spending it in the economy and devaluing what coins the king did have. Someone finding a lot of extra bottlecaps would be similar. The point is just like how gold can't be mass produced out of thin air, bottlecaps in this scenario are not going to be mass produced out of thin air. So you can't have near unlimited inflation like a government printing paper.

Unless you control the entire surface of the Earth, there is no way to "control the supply" of any material to be used as currency. Someone out there beyond your domain might be able to find some more gold or bottlecaps and thus disrupt value somewhat when trading with your people. If you want total control over the money used within your domain, then you're going to have a fiat currency, like a paper bill that itself is worthless but we all agree that it has more value than it actually does for the purpose of trading. But this only works if you have a large enough and strong enough government that they can jail people for not accepting the paper bills as currency, and enough people won't move out of the country to avoid having to accept the paper bills.

[maidenhaver]

Paper is sophisticated enough a government can control it, while simple enough it can easily spread. Coins wouldn't be hard to mint, and everyone would understand them.

[rusty_shackleford]

Who's gonna mint money after the bombs fall?

If all they cared about was something that was very hard to counterfeit, using existing currency does cover that. But it still has the issue that they don't control the supply.

So in this hypothetical scenario where water merchants are trying to get a currency to circulate that could be traded for their water, this would be difficult because pre-war currency would be continuously added as more is recovered.

[J1M]

Ammo.

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

The same nitpick would apply to water as a currency.

[Tweed]

Water spoils, ammo eventually goes bad, and so does gasoline.

[Kolgrim]

I think it would make the most sense to have things like cigarettes, booze, ammo, medical supplies, food, etc instead of a flat currency.

[rusty_shackleford]

European kings did not own all of the gold in the world too. Theoretically, someone could have sailed across the ocean, found a huge stockpile of gold and silver and brought an enormous volume back, spending it in the economy and devaluing what coins the king did have. Someone finding a lot of extra bottlecaps would be similar. The point is just like how gold can't be mass produced out of thin air, bottlecaps in this scenario are not going to be mass produced out of thin air. So you can't have near unlimited inflation like a government printing paper.

Unless you control the entire surface of the Earth, there is no way to "control the supply" of any material to be used as currency. Someone out there beyond your domain might be able to find some more gold or bottlecaps and thus disrupt value somewhat when trading with your people. If you want total control over the money used within your domain, then you're going to have a fiat currency, like a paper bill that itself is worthless but we all agree that it has more value than it actually does for the purpose of trading. But this only works if you have a large enough and strong enough government that they can jail people for not accepting the paper bills as currency, and enough people won't move out of the country to avoid having to accept the paper bills.

A coin was worth what it was worth because the picture of the king was stamped on it with the king's approval.
i.e., the same reason the USD is valuable: refuse to use it at your own peril, but unless you're willing to challenge the king…

---

And to challenge assertions regarding the price revolution, the Spanish crown was minting everything it could get its hands on, so it was not merely(or likely very much at all) due to simply more precious metals.

[Tweed]

Ammo.

What are you doing to make sure every other piece of ammo isn't emptied and loaded with gravel?

Sounds like it would be way too much effort, even if you have everything you need to make fake ammo that passes detection.

[rusty_shackleford]

Ammo.

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

The same nitpick would apply to water as a currency.

It has been too long for me to remember if the sole reason water was so valuable was because it's a desert. But it's worth remembering that radiation is just different in the Fallout universe and never really consistent, so who knows how hard it is to remove from water there, but it's surely not as easy as just filtering it using soil like real life.

[J1M]

What happens if someone discovers a major cache of army supplies and everyone's ammo rapidly devalues like a bitcoin?
How about ammo having a limited shelf life before it starts to go bad?

The same nitpick would apply to water as a currency.

It has been too long for me to remember if the sole reason water was so valuable was because it's a desert. But it's worth remembering that radiation is just different in the Fallout universe and never really consistent, so who knows how hard it is to remove from water there, but it's surely not as easy as just filtering it using soil like real life.

I guess I forgot the radiation detail. Without that caveat, one rainfall would mess up the economy. Or someone figuring out how to drill a well. An aqueduct would be like opening a gold mine. Might be interesting, but I don't think it could be a general answer.

[DemoGraph]

An assortment of commodity money: salt, spirit, grain, cattle, iron rods, ammo. Maaaybe silver-gold for a time when civilization stabilizes.

[Tweed]

I think it would make the most sense to have things like cigarettes, booze, ammo, medical supplies, food, etc instead of a flat currency.

I dunno about cigarettes, but alcohol would work. I guess if you can actually cultivate tobacco you might well have a "cash crop" in that.

[Maledict]

Most expensive: fertile women
Mid expensive: cattle and other reusable movable food sources
Less expensive: slave labourers

There should be no hard currency. That's stupid. All should be about exchanging goods. A currency requires a functional society.

[rusty_shackleford]

A currency requires a functional society.

Many post-apoc RPGs have functioning societies

[J1M]

I think the bottlecap of Fallout is silly, and I'm referring specifically to the first game. Any other entries using it is beyond ridiculous and not worth discussing. Maybe, perhaps, the water merchants were just not very bright. But with any access to some pre-war reading material they could have accumulated enough knowledge to know how to make currency resistant to counterfeiting while also being currency they control tied to the their resource: potable water. Which is presumably the entire point, a token worth some water.

What currencies do you envision a post-apocalyptic society using?

Short answer: pre-apocalyptic silver coins
Between old American 90% coins, and later mint bullion issues like the silver eagle there are plenty of easily verifiable silver coins that would survive the collapse. This would be strictly superior to hack silver and other types of bars.

Silver might not be viable as a currency today, due to the relative amount available as currency per person, but in an post-apocalyptic scenario one would assume most of the population is dead.

Would also be possible to eventually mint more from larger bars or new mining operations. Many of which are already open but shut down due to low profitability at recent silver prices. The value of silver currency in this situation should eventually settle at approximately the labor required to mine, refine, and mint new coins.


Boring answer: whatever the organized military power decides
In other words, the same as modern day. Currency would have value because the organized military power accepts it in exchange for deferring physical violence on your person.


Long answer: are we talking about currency or money?

Money serves four functions:

• medium of exchange: removes the friction present in a barter economy, you don't need to find someone that has something you want that also wants something you have
• measure of value: a standard unit of measurement that can be easily counted
• standard of deferred payment: an accepted means to settle a debt
• store of value: can be reliably saved, stored, and used in the future, stable value over time

Something could become money, but not be a currency that is centrally issued, such as bullets suggested above or medicines with a long shelf life. In an environment where governments are inherently weaker it would actually be harder to establish a currency than a form of money. A currency centrally issued, and the acceptance of it as payment is legally enforced. That could be impossible if travel and communication are difficult. If the currency itself was not a commodity with its own inherent value (paper money, iron coin, seashell), then I think for it to be plausible in that setting it would have to be backed by a commodity (water, gasoline, gold) and there would need to be proof that the currency could be exchanged for that in order for people to trust it as a store of value.

Aside: Perhaps an interesting story thread for the player to discover that the vault a currency is backed by is empty, and a choice of how to hide or use that information?

It's also possible there would be a hybrid currency/money system that evolved, similar to what happens in some south american countries. You have a government currency for your income and day-to-day expenses like food, but it is known that this currency is not a good store of value. To avoid seeing their work inflated away, people will quickly convert any excess income into something else, such as US dollars and accept the related currency conversion fees. A post-apoc setting might see something like bottlecaps as a currency and combustion engines as money.

The world today has approximately the same number of currencies as there are countries. If we accept that a post-apocalyptic setting would devolve into city-states, that implies each city would have a different currency. Perhaps with no easy means of converting one to the other, and certainly with the regional currencies having much higher value closer to where they are issued than several settlements away. In that case, the money that is widely accepted could end up being the means to travel or communicate.

[TKVNC]

Scrip.

Like Wasteland, and early fallouts, or NV.

[Tangerine]

The currency of the pre-apocalypse 2030 superpower: rupees.

[rusty_shackleford]

The currency of the pre-apocalypse 2030 superpower: rupees.

The Zelda currency?

[J1M]

Another source of inspiration: items used as money in the new world. Pelts, glass beads, shell beads, livestock, copper, and stamped playing cards.

[Lhynn]

Bartering is always more interesting in those settings.