Clair Obscur: Expedition 33

[DrSneed]

About to start this game. Any useful tips to make life easier?

Lower the difficulty

[methoxetamine]

About to start this game. Any useful tips to make life easier?

It's pretty straightforward. My only suggestion is when you get to Act 3 just finish the story before doing side content. Loading your save after the ending puts you back right before the ending so you can go do the the optional stuff then. There's a fair amount of it and if you do any of the harder optional content you will one shot the final boss and ruin the kino of the fight

[DemoGraph]

This is the panel of those awards btw

Look at all these *******... disgusting

I've looked, selectively.
Chipzel - She is pretty kewl (OSTs for Superhexagon, Crypt of the necrodancer, Interstellaria). I'm definitely going to dig through her discography.
Lena Raine - tried to listen to her, but something was off. I couldn't understand what was wrong and then googled the bio. Yep, it's a boy and he's an amateur.
Anna Hollinrake - a pastelhuggington ingenue, nothing special.
Remy Siu - too deep for me, but he's Canadian.
Everyone else was lolnope from the start.

But Chipzel is (highly likely) great, geroff her! Like seriously.

Gambling is not a clinical addiction and it's one of the most destructive addictions out there. Gambling addicts have horrifically high rates of suicide.

Maybe. But we're not discussing gambling.

Then, what is the "theme" of the game or the "message" according to your interpretation?

I don't know. It's a pretty mixed bag. I'd even say that it could be intentionally postmodernistic for moar drama. But shouuld I select some specific topics.
Women are whores. Because Verso can **** Sciel despite her constant moaning about the dead hubby.
All westerners are nazi hypocrites. Because there's a genocide of strong AIs happening in the game, but everyone loses their **** over irrelevant daddy issues.
Devs can't into ludonarrative dissonance (I've already bitched about this in this thread). But everyone is okay with it. Civilization is in decline.

About to start this game. Any useful tips to make life easier?

Turn on the composition I've added above, launch X-COM, send rookies to die.

[logincrash]

Gambling is not a clinical addiction and it's one of the most destructive addictions out there. Gambling addicts have horrifically high rates of suicide.

Maybe. But we're not discussing gambling.

Holy ****. How would you have felt yesterday evening if you hadn't eaten breakfast or lunch?

[Stack of Turtles]

Gambling addiciton isn't real unless we consider low IQ a clinical condition, which, maybe we should

[Tangerine]

Gambling addiciton isn't real unless we consider low IQ a clinical condition, which, maybe we should

That'd be used as another way to give ******* gibs.

[Stack of Turtles]

Gambling addiciton isn't real unless we consider low IQ a clinical condition, which, maybe we should

That'd be used as another way to give ******* gibs.

That happens already. At least we could institutionalize them first, theoretically.

[DemoGraph]

Gambling is not a clinical addiction and it's one of the most destructive addictions out there. Gambling addicts have horrifically high rates of suicide.

Maybe. But we're not discussing gambling.

Holy ****. How would you have felt yesterday evening if you hadn't eaten breakfast or lunch?

I would've felt like I'm fasting. So probably very holy.

Jokes aside. Both painter girl and her mother had what is often mundanely called stress-induced depression. They demonstrated the lack of willpower (or psychological exhaustion) by hiding from a problem and/or indulging themselves. This is a medical condition, but not yet an addiction. Because it could be overcome (healed) given enough time.
Case in point - well, I have a close experience with depression.
Suppose that instead of escapism in art those characters would've acquired a religious escapism that would've materialized in strict adherence to religious norms, fasting, 6 hour-long kneeling prayers or meditations, flagellation, etc. Would it change your reaction to the situation?
Flagellation would probably be off-limits. What about fasting? The girl almost definitely shouldn't practice it because it could affect her physical development. But the damage would be stretched out over years. A week or two of selective fasting could be beneficial for the body. Maybe. When do you stop? What about those meditations? 6 hour long kneeling is definitely bad for cardiovascular system and good for premature cellulite. The damage is there... or maybe it would appear after some months. Is this self-damaging behaviour an addiction? When does it become one?
Would you, as father and husband, state "honey, too much god is bad for your health, go do some yoga instead"?

[Stack of Turtles]

Would you, as father and husband, state "honey, too much god is bad for your health, go do some yoga instead"?

Yes, except not yoga, yoga is for libtards.

[logincrash]

Maybe. But we're not discussing gambling.

Holy ****. How would you have felt yesterday evening if you hadn't eaten breakfast or lunch?

I would've felt like I'm fasting. So probably very holy.

Jokes aside. Both painter girl and her mother had what is often mundanely called stress-induced depression. They demonstrated the lack of willpower (or psychological exhaustion) by hiding from a problem and/or indulging themselves. This is a medical condition, but not yet an addiction. Because it could be overcome (healed) given enough time.
Case in point - well, I have a close experience with depression.
Suppose that instead of escapism in art those characters would've acquired a religious escapism that would've materialized in strict adherence to religious norms, fasting, 6 hour-long kneeling prayers or meditations, flagellation, etc. Would it change your reaction to the situation?
Flagellation would probably be off-limits. What about fasting? The girl almost definitely shouldn't practice it because it could affect her physical development. But the damage would be stretched out over years. A week or two of selective fasting could be beneficial for the body. Maybe. When do you stop? What about those meditations? 6 hour long kneeling is definitely bad for cardiovascular system and good for premature cellulite. The damage is there... or maybe it would appear after some months. Is this self-damaging behaviour an addiction? When does it become one?
Would you, as father and husband, state "honey, too much god is bad for your health, go do some yoga instead"?

It sounds like you're convincing yourself into agreeing with Cipher.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It's exactly the same problem with Spec Ops the Line. They wanted to do "war is bad and YOU are bad because you committed war crimes and enjoyed it, gamer chud!"

It is disingenuous to boil down to Spec Ops as just being a "take that" towards "gamers". It's about how a guy jumped into a situation that he didn't fully understand, thinking that it was cut and dry when it wasn't. It's made in contrast to very typical media narratives where the hero will at the drop of a hat go rogue or go against orders and "do what is right" as if it is always very cut and dry, or quickly joins the rebellion in a rebels vs evil empire situation, etc. Though yes, there is an element of customer mocking there. I thought this forum would have overall appreciated that the game existed for being a rare piece of audio-visual media (Go Tell the Spartans being another example) that doesn't go along with the typical narrative, given how many people here dislike the typical propagandistic books and documentaries and media and so on we were raised with that said "Allies, good, Germany bad, Founding Fathers good, Parliament bad, Lincoln good, Confederacy bad" etc.

[Stack of Turtles]

"Allies, good, Germany bad, Founding Fathers good, Parliament bad, Lincoln good, Confederacy bad" etc.

unironically true and correct

[Tangerine]

It is disingenuous to boil down to Spec Ops as just being a "take that" towards "gamers".

It was made by pretentious libtards who made the WP scene for exactly that reason. It was also leftoid "America/Bush bad" propaganda.

And even assuming death of the author, the story sucks.

[geftsu]

The husband and father should persist, not relent.

THIS is the correct opinion on this matter.

The problem here is the difference in worldview. From my point of view, God doesn't own humanity and parents do not own their children and don't get to force them into the life they want their children to have. You raise your children, you guide them, but at some point they are responsible for the choices they make and the lives they want to lead. It doesn't matter how you evaluate the life choices your children make and whether you think that getting stuck in an eternal Lotus Eater machine is good, bad or neutral -- it is not your choice to make. At some point your children just make their own decisions in life even if those decisions lead them to bad places.

And don't give me the "you won't say that when you are a parent" ********. I absolutely would and I had more than enough experience witnessing and dealing with the parents who think that they get to control their children's lives even when those children are adults who probably have a lot more going on in their life and understand the world outside better than their parents.

And if we are talking about Maelle specifically, in the "real world" she is a mute invalid, her mother hates her so much that she made a painted version of her an invalid out of spite and her sister is a ****. Renoir is the only person in that family who truly loves her. She doesn't really have much incentive to go back to "reality".

By the way, small unrelated tangent. It's interesting that the Canvas has painted versions of the Dessendre family made by Renoir and Aline which represent how they see their family members.

Aline's family is painted as realistic people, but there is a lot of spite in how she depicts them. She made painted Renoir ominous, extremely bitter, forced him to inherit the pain of losing his son and feel it all the time (despite painted Verso being alive) and made him into her attack dog. She painted Alicia as a burned mute, despite the fact that she didn't have to. We don't see uncorrupted Clea, but we know that she painted her a boyfriend (Simon) who doesn't exist in real life, so read that how you will. You could interpret it as "stop being a **** over-obsessing over the painting business and get yourself a man", but that's speculation.

Renoir's family are abstract figures (Axons), but his attitude is very different. He painted Clea as the Hauler, representing how she carries too many burdens and probably takes onto herself more than she should. He painted Aline as Sirene, which clearly represents his love for her, despite the fact that they were already fighting at the time. Alicia is the Reacher, which is about him loving her, being concerned about her and wanting/expecting great things for her (and it's also implied that she is his favorite child). Visages is kinda interesting, because it's about how Renoir saw real Verso rather than about painted Verso being a lying piece of **** who wants everyone dead, because he is bitter about his life. I guess it implies that real Verso was also a reserved individual who was hard to read and who had to play many roles to navigate family dynamics. Given how his death completely broke everyone, he could have been the one who tried to be the sane man and navigate and mediate the conflicts in the family (I know I'm reading into it too much here, but I know how it feels, because I was this person in my family).


Long story short, your problems with the game is you disagreeing with it, because of your values, not because the game is bad on any level. There is absolutely no point in me trying to argue that your values in life are wrong, because it's pointless and we will never agree. In my years of life I never once had or witnessed an argument on the internet that resulted in someone changing their mind.

tl;dr you may disagree with the game, but you are being a contrarian sperg about it.

[rusty_shackleford]

My values are right tho

[geftsu]

My values are right tho

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, and god forbid, I'm not trying to dictate anyone how they should raise their children. I just know that if I was Maelle, I would make the same choice and even if I was dragged into reality kicking and screaming, I would never live the life I do not want. Sooner or later, I would throw it away, I would burn down any relationship if I have to, but I would have things my way in the end.

It's what I did in real life (if you know anything about families in Eastern Europe, you might have an idea) and I never once regretted it. I should have gone my own way much younger than I did, in fact.

[rusty_shackleford]

My values are right tho

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, and god forbid, I'm not trying to dictate anyone how they should raise their children. I just know that if I was Maelle, I would make the same choice and even if I was dragged into reality kicking and screaming, I would never live the life I do not want. Sooner or later, I would throw it away, I would burn down any relationship if I have to, but I would have things my way in the end.

It's not about Maelle, it's about the father doing what is right. If the father has any paternal instincts, and presumably he does considering how long he's been trying, he would keep trying or just perish in the process.
The entire thing is wish fulfillment for Maelle and those who share her worldview.

[Stack of Turtles]

My values are right tho

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind, and god forbid, I'm not trying to dictate anyone how they should raise their children. I just know that if I was Maelle, I would make the same choice and even if I was dragged into reality kicking and screaming, I would never live the life I do not want. Sooner or later, I would throw it away, I would burn down any relationship if I have to, but I would have things my way in the end.

It's what I did in real life (if you know anything about families in Eastern Europe, you might have an idea) and I never once regretted it. I should have gone my own way much younger than I did, in fact.

where do all these women keep coming from?

[geftsu]

Once again, we are circling back to the fact that you think that parents own their children and that they are not independent agents who have self-ownership and can make their own choices. That kind of attitude festers into deep resentment. Ask me how I know and how many times I saw it.

Escapism is a choice like any other, regardless whether you like it. It would be detrimental to civilization if most people chose escapism, that much is true, but most people don't want to escape from reality. At least not really, not to that degree where it's actually a problem.

[rusty_shackleford]

Once again, we are circling back to the fact that you think that parents own their children and that they are not independent agents who have self-ownership and can make their own choices.

Insofar that they can choose for them to pull their children out of a simulation because the parent has deemed it unhealthy, yes. Children aren't mature enough to understand the nuances.

Escapism is a choice like any other, regardless whether you like it. It would be detrimental to civilization if most people chose escapism, that much is true, but most people don't want to escape from reality. At least not really, not to that degree where it's actually a problem.

A father is going to care a lot more when it's his child rather than just a statistic on a sheet

[geftsu]

where do all these women keep coming from?

Not even pretending to try to engage with what is being said, that's why I don't post on the internet. Too bad I can't think of an original way to call you a ******.

[Stack of Turtles]

where do all these women keep coming from?

Not even pretending to try to engage with what is being said, that's why I don't post on the internet. Too bad I can't think of an original way to call you a ******.

I note that this isn't a denial.

[wndrbr]

[geftsu]

Insofar that they can choose for them to pull them out of a simulation because the parent has deemed it unhealthy, yes. Children aren't mature enough to understand the nuances.

As far as children go, sure, I can agree. I'm not going to try to weasel out of this argument by saying **** like "but Maelle lived her life twice and has twice the life experience and is more like 32 rather than 16". I admit that I project my own opinion as an adult man who already weighed all the pros and cons many times over many years.

A father is going to care a lot more when it's his child rather than just a statistic on a sheet

I never once implied that I don't see where Renoir is coming from and why he does what he does. I didn't even call him wrong morally. I would genocide however many people for the sake of my children if it came to that without blinking. My point is more that at some point you just have to let go of your children and let them do their own ****.

UPD: Once again, we are having a discussion about values, not about the game. This has nothing to do with the game being good or bad. The game doesn't even force you to choose one side over the other. There is nothing in the game that tells you "Renoir is wrong and you should feel like he is evil and if you agree with him, you are a bad person". There is also nothing in the game that tells you to think the opposite.

[Stack of Turtles]

I never once implied that I don't see where Renoir is coming from and why he does what he does. I didn't even call him wrong morally. I would genocide however many people for the sake of my children if it came to that without blinking. My point is more that at some point you just have to let go of your children and let them do their own ****.

There is actually no point in time when you should let your children do something self-destructive in front of you without doing everything in your power to stop them, in fact. That's libtard parenting.

[rusty_shackleford]

@geftsu
I suspect you think someone disagreeing with you means you must prove that person wrong. We(the reader) just want to see what both sides of the debate are. People explaining why they like the story is interesting to people that don't like it, not that we're also trying to convince you to dislike it.

---

My point is more that at some point you just have to let go of your children and let them do their own ****.

Maelle is 16 in the painting and real life, she is still a child. Living life as a child twice does not an adult make. She may be on the verge of becoming a young adult, but she has never lived one second as a young adult let alone as an independent adult. Yes, parents should protect their children, and this applies well past leaving childhood too.

There's also the entire aspect that parents have a vested interest in their children having children. Ironically, "For those who come after" is one of the frequently said phrases of the game, yet none will come after Maelle.

[geftsu]

I suspect you think someone disagreeing with you means you must prove that person wrong

No, I really don't, I just got derailed. My point was more about that whether you agree or disagree with Renoir (I personally am kind of in the middle and I don't want to go into it any more) it doesn't make the game bad. The game isn't trying to point a finger at him and tell you "he is le bad, and you should feel like he is bad otherwise you are a chud and literally Hitler".

Maelle is 16 in the painting and real life, she is still a child. Living life as a child twice does not an adult make. She may be on the verge of becoming a young adult, but she has never lived one second as a young adult let alone as an independent adult. Yes, parents should protect their children, and this applies well past leaving childhood too.

Yeah, I agree. No objections here.

There's also the entire aspect that parents have a vested interest in their children having children. Ironically, "For those who come after" is one of the frequently said phrases of the game, yet none will come after Maelle.

I agree, but it's impossible to force them to have children against their will.

And once again, I already agreed that I'm projecting my POV onto Maelle while I'm at a very different stage in my life compared to her. I'm already middle-aged, already weighed the pros and cons and made a decision for myself that "reality" ain't all what it's made out to be. For the record, I don't do drugs, don't drink, don't smoke, lift and have very good income, but I just checked out of society for the most part.

[maidenhaver]

I never once implied that I don't see where Renoir is coming from and why he does what he does. I didn't even call him wrong morally. I would genocide however many people for the sake of my children if it came to that without blinking. My point is more that at some point you just have to let go of your children and let them do their own ****.

There is actually no point in time when you should let your children do something self-destructive in front of you without doing everything in your power to stop them, in fact. That's libtard parenting.

This was the plot of og cartoon Transformers second season movie, but even that was ******.

"I hate them, Gregory! I hate them all!" is such a memorable delivery. The voice actor poured his guts out to rage cry when they give his daughter robot legs.

[Valter]

he would keep trying or just perish in the process.

► Show Spoiler

He did keep trying until he was defeated in the canvas. Forcing them out was no longer an option, so he tried to reason with them, and when that didn't work he just said his goodbyes amicably before being ejected, which could be seen as relenting, but I think he was just out of options for the time being.
Time passes faster in the canvas than IRL so I dunno how long it would take for him to try again, not to mention he needs Clea's help to stand a chance at succeeding and she's off in her own little war. So enough time passing for Maelle's ending to take place is reasonable. Doesn't mean he's given up.

[geftsu]

he needs Clea's help to stand a chance at succeeding and she's off in her own little war

Except Clea will never help him, because she makes her stance clear multiple times and it's the same as mine. She thinks that Maelle needs to make the choice for herself regardless of what Renoir or Aline want.