Earliest examples of good game writing?

[rusty_shackleford]

Characters with motivation, good plot twists, perhaps even a satisfying conclusion. Little or no fourth-wall breaking or extraneous references that don't fit, and so on.

I can tell you when this stopped appearing in viddy games(~2015), but when did it start appearing in viddy games?
Albion(1995) has an enjoyable story, I compared it to a proto-Fallout when I played it. But I'm sure there are plenty of earlier examples.

I can think of some much earlier examples that had good ideas in broad strokes but either didn't have the talent or technology to execute what they wanted to do — yes, technology. There was a period of time when video games were beginning to actually have writing and you'd have to cross-reference your manual to look up passages because they needed to reduce disk size.

Hard mode: no adventure games.

[J1M]

Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver
Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver 2
StarCraft
Deus Ex
Star Wars Republic Commando
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

[Tweed]

Betrayal at Krondor.

[madbringer]

Anchorhead is, in my head, the first good video game with good writing. A gripping, Lovecraftian horror story that keeps you on your toes from start to finish and has good flow, too. But as for earliest, the Marathon series comes before it, then System Shock, and before that, perhaps Planetfall? Planetfall is the first game with real story I ever played, so perhaps I'm a bit biased.

[DemoGraph]

Some MUDs or text quests, probably.

[Tadeusz]

Characters with motivation, good plot twists, perhaps even a satisfying conclusion. Little or no fourth-wall breaking or extraneous references that don't fit, and so on.

I really liked the campaign stories in HoMM IV, they have all the things that you mentioned. The Necropolis one is my favorite. The story is presented through walls of text though but it's there.

[Manny V]

Characters with motivation, good plot twists, perhaps even a satisfying conclusion. Little or no fourth-wall breaking or extraneous references that don't fit, and so on.

I really liked the campaign stories in HoMM IV, they have all the things that you mentioned. The Necropolis one is my favorite. The story is presented through walls of text though but it's there.

SPAZZ MATICUS, A YOUNG KING ON A MAD QUEST TO RULE THE WORLD

[rusty_shackleford]

Betrayal at Krondor.

1993, I suspect it could actually be this for non-adventure games.

[asf]

early ultimas maybe

[rusty_shackleford]

early ultimas maybe

You mean like that time when Garriott didn't even know what Exodus meant and just used it because it sounded cool?

[Tinky Winky]

Dark Sum: Shattered Land.
Well, actually there's nothing fancy in terms of the storywriting. The plot isn't anything more compelling than your generic good-vs-big-bad fantasy cliches, but the game has a comfy village in the middle of the despairing shithole, which made me really feel and want to protect it at all costs.

[Marcus]

I can tell you when this stopped appearing in viddy games(~2015)

Which were the last games to have good writing?

[rusty_shackleford]

I can tell you when this stopped appearing in viddy games(~2015)

Which were the last games to have good writing?

Witcher 3 base game has a complete dogshit story, but some very good individual quests(mostly contracts), bloody baron questline, and exceptional DLC

[Tweed]

early ultimas maybe

You mean like that time when Garriott didn't even know what Exodus meant and just used it because it sounded cool?

Remember that time when Richard didn't like Christianity and made a game about it, but Roe Adams built the entire virtue system around it? Yeah, that was great.

[DecadeRiptide]

I can tell you when this stopped appearing in viddy games(~2015)

Which were the last games to have good writing?

Witcher 3 base game has a complete dogshit story, but some very good individual quests(mostly contracts), bloody baron questline, and exceptional DLC

wasnt amazing but wouldnt say it was dogshit
better than most other garbage released

[Tweed]

Which were the last games to have good writing?

I think it was a lot sooner than 2015. Dragon Age Origins, New Vegas, Alpha Protocol were all 2009 - 2010 and everything after that is mediocrity or plain ****.

[Element]

Marathon 1

[Roguey]

Dave Lebling, Marc Blank, and Steve Eric Meretzky were the masters of text-based games in the 80s.

[rusty_shackleford]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

[madbringer]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

That's a bit unfair. Text games require input and active thought, same as any other type of interactive fiction. By your definition, most adventure games should not count, they're just books with moving pixels and interruptions between pages.

[asf]

only games i like count

[aimlesshealer]

Was already posted but going to reiterate because it's my favorite: Marathon, 1994. "Read my lips: Computer games tell stories. That's what they're for." -Greg Kirkpatrick

[Tangerine]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

That's a bit unfair. Text games require input and active thought, same as any other type of interactive fiction. By your definition, most adventure games should not count, they're just books with moving pixels and interruptions between pages.

Interactive fiction are not games.

[Xenich]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

That's a bit unfair. Text games require input and active thought, same as any other type of interactive fiction. By your definition, most adventure games should not count, they're just books with moving pixels and interruptions between pages.

Interactive fiction are not games.

How are they not? I mean, if we take into account the definition of a game being a competition where there are win/loss conditions.

Heck, I even consider the old "Choose your own adventure" kid novels of the 70's/80's to still be games because you can make wrong decisions that lead to death or loss of the objective.

Edit:

How about a relational example.

"Watch the shells, I am moving them around, pay attention... Which one is the pea under?"

"You see two paths before you, one shows a bridge with loose planks, the other is a rocky path leading steeply down where you can not see where it goes. Which path do you take?"

Make that text adventure graphical and you now have the standard adventure game (kings quest, Adventure game).

Add various dice roll mechanics and statistics for the player, and you have Heroes quest (RPG).

Add in the player ability to time physical presses of a key to overcome a pattern of the opponent they encounter, you now have an action game.

All games, all competition to a win/loss condition.

The difference with most interactive fiction (if it allows choices with fail conditions) is the entire point of it is telling a story using game based decisions while later games put a lot more attention to the player solving/action aspect of play.

Still a game though.

[Tangerine]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

That's a bit unfair. Text games require input and active thought, same as any other type of interactive fiction. By your definition, most adventure games should not count, they're just books with moving pixels and interruptions between pages.

Interactive fiction are not games.

How are they not? I mean, if we take into account the definition of a game being a competition where there are win/loss conditions.

Heck, I even consider the old "Choose your own adventure" kid novels of the 70's/80's to still be games because you can make wrong decisions that lead to death or loss of the objective.

There isn't a skill test in CYOA book. It's glorified guess and check.

[Xenich]

text-based """games""" don't count, that's just a book with extra steps

Interactive fiction are not games.

How are they not? I mean, if we take into account the definition of a game being a competition where there are win/loss conditions.

Heck, I even consider the old "Choose your own adventure" kid novels of the 70's/80's to still be games because you can make wrong decisions that lead to death or loss of the objective.

There isn't a skill test in CYOA book. It's glorified guess and check.

Depends, some do. Some take rational thought, others are random results. I will concede if there is no skill being applied (rational thought or logical deduction), you have a point, but not all interactive fiction is purely random in its resolutions.

Though.. I just realized.. games of chance are still games. Is a slot machine a game? There is no skill being measured, merely chance?

[Xenich]

After considering "games of chance" (even thinking about how RPGs with RNG systems are just games of chance with statistical leverage), "chance" as a mechanism of game play is still a game.

I stand by my original argument.

[Tangerine]

How are they not? I mean, if we take into account the definition of a game being a competition where there are win/loss conditions.

Heck, I even consider the old "Choose your own adventure" kid novels of the 70's/80's to still be games because you can make wrong decisions that lead to death or loss of the objective.

There isn't a skill test in CYOA book. It's glorified guess and check.

Depends, some do. Some take rational thought, others are random results. I will concede if there is no skill being applied (rational thought or logical deduction), you have a point, but not all interactive fiction is purely random in its resolutions.

Though.. I just realized.. games of chance are still games. Is a slot machine a game? There is no skill being measured, merely chance?

Poker is a game because there's a skill element. Slot machines are not because it's pure luck they're rigged. There's unfortunately not a better term for activities done for leisure that heavily involve luck.

[Xenich]

There isn't a skill test in CYOA book. It's glorified guess and check.

Depends, some do. Some take rational thought, others are random results. I will concede if there is no skill being applied (rational thought or logical deduction), you have a point, but not all interactive fiction is purely random in its resolutions.

Though.. I just realized.. games of chance are still games. Is a slot machine a game? There is no skill being measured, merely chance?

Poker is a game because there's a skill element. Slot machines are not because it's pure luck they're rigged. There's unfortunately not a better term for activities done for leisure that heavily involve luck.

Games of chance...

Yet let us consider this for a second. Take Craps for instance... you leverage statistical likelihood as you play, there is skill in this as to when to play, what to bet on, etc... and I would say there is a certain level of skill in many games of chance to leverage your odds by understanding the game. In the end, luck still determines the outcome, but there is skill in what you do to improve your odds of this.

Look at RNG RPGs, board games, etc... you make knowledge based decisions to leverage the statistics to a win. Everything from tactical placement, approach, etc... are knowledge and skill based decisions, but ultimately the roll will determine the outcome. You know what I mean, where you do everything right, build your character just the right way, place them in the correct winning strategy... but oops... you rolled a 1...bummer.

This is statistical randomness, essentially a "game of chance". Granted, heavily adjusted by proper selection of outcome, yet still... based on the roll...

Contrast that with pure skill games, like arcade games where everything is based on the players action skill. They control the outcome, they decide the victory, not chance.

So would an action arcade gamer be justified in claiming an RNG RPG is just a "game of chance", therefore not a game... because they don't TRULY control the outcome and are ultimately at the mercy of chance?

I say it is still a game, just a "type" of game and I think that is a fair assessment.

[Tangerine]

Games of chance...

Is not a good term because it includes slots, pachinko, roulette, and other non-games.

So would an action arcade gamer be justified in claiming an RNG RPG is just a "game of chance", therefore not a game... because they don't TRULY control the outcome and are ultimately at the mercy of chance?

Poker and RNG RPG are games because your knowledge allows you to leverage your skills to maximize your chance of winning. This is different than making a choice and hoping for the best.

Edit: @Xenich To clarify on the latter, the outcome of a decision in IF is based on the writer's whims and not bound by any rules. You hope that the narrative logic makes sense, but there's nothing enforcing that.