World of Warcraft: Retail, Classic and Private

[Tweed]

this is how i see myself on rpghq: just the chill lowkey guy who does his own thing and doesn't give a **** about what anyone thinks

Is this a player model? Because it um... it actually looks pretty cool.

Achievement unlocked: furry slippery slope

This is the subscriber loss event horizon. Once you have to directly cater to furfags, it's ogre.

[rusty_shackleford]

Is this a player model? Because it um... it actually looks pretty cool.

Achievement unlocked: furry slippery slope

This is the subscriber loss event horizon. Once you have to directly cater to furfags, it's ogre.

That was the fox race years ago

[Tweed]

Achievement unlocked: furry slippery slope

This is the subscriber loss event horizon. Once you have to directly cater to furfags, it's ogre.

That was the fox race years ago

Dragons are a forbidden fruit, an unwritten rule. You should never, ever let the player be a dragon of any kind.

[J1M]

The issue with drakthyr is that a "deviant art scalie" member of the art team created the player character dragons to cater to his sexual fetish and based them on the female worgen animations, instead of letting players play the types of dragons that were already in the game that they had been asking for.

They also refused to give the "support" combat role kit to any other classes, such as enhancement shaman, in order to force more people to play evokers, which could only be drakthyr.

[Tweed]

The issue with drakthyr is that a "deviant art scalie" member of the art team created the player character dragons to cater to his sexual fetish and based them on the female worgen animations, instead of letting players play the types of dragons that were already in the game that they had been asking for.

They also refused to give the "support" combat role kit to any other classes, such as enhancement shaman, in order to force more people to play evokers, which could only be drakthyr.

I rest my case.

[sheet]

I didn't take Warcraft 3 as a warning sign since it was such a good game, but it would have been better to have stuck with humans, elves, dwarves, gnomes, orcs, trolls, ogres, and goblins.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[Manny V]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

[LemonDemonGirl]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

Death Knights are supposed to be cannon fodder for the Lich King

[Manny V]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

Death Knights are supposed to be cannon fodder for the Lich King

you're thinkin of... yknow.... the swarms of ghouls/zombies/skeletons etc

(yeah yeah i know the whole intro sequence reveals he was just using you to draw out Tirion but c'mon, let's be real here, why the **** would you use dumb **** like gnomes as your troops)

[TKVNC]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

Should have been race locked to Human, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Forsaken.

[Manny V]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

Should have been race locked to Human, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Forsaken.

Orcs are acceptable too, since they're just bulkier green humans (and the original death knights had the souls of orcs, not to mention Ner'Zhul himself was an orc)

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I conceptually like the idea of a cute little playable race. 50% of the Japanese FF14 playerbase is Lalafell and it is obviously an archetype that WoW lacked (the abysmal character populations for Gnomes and Goblins shows that they were unsuccessful implementations). But the ingame implementation of Vulpera is rather lacking IMO. They neither look cute nor cool.

Getting skinny Dracthyr instead of big powerful Drakonoids was indeed a disappointment. Augmentation being a support spec using Neltharion's secret lab experiments and Earth Warder powers is cool, but it's attached to an unappealing racial model. And then the "support" hero talents like Lightsmith for paladin weren't as visually cool nor as transformative ingame.

[TKVNC]

whenever i make a death knight and see the NPC new recruits running up the Lich King in the starter area, it's always absurd seeing the foids/gnomes/draenei and what have you running up. who the **** thought it was a good idea to make a little midget or ******** space goat into an edgelord bringer of death and despair? it's preposterous.

Should have been race locked to Human, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Forsaken.

Orcs are acceptable too, since they're just bulkier green humans (and the original death knights had the souls of orcs, not to mention Ner'Zhul himself was an orc)

Well it requires being a knight. Generally speaking. That means no Orcs.

[Manny V]

Should have been race locked to Human, Dwarf, Blood Elf and Forsaken.

Orcs are acceptable too, since they're just bulkier green humans (and the original death knights had the souls of orcs, not to mention Ner'Zhul himself was an orc)

Well it requires being a knight. Generally speaking. That means no Orcs.

fair, but me likey zug zug death knights

[Finarfin]

The first death knights had the souls of orcs in them so yeah, orcs being death knights is fine.

[DemoGraph]

I conceptually like the idea of a cute little playable race.

That's what goblins and dwarves are for.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[Finarfin]

Reading the description of it, makes it apparent that it is tied to a charity.

[Oyster Sauce]

Tauren are the coolest race



still mad at my friend who insisted we go with Epoch

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The most acute example that I remember is the Drakthyr questline ending in a monologue that basically felt like a lecture about MAGA with a few proper nouns changed.

Ah, you mean Saarkareth running off. I can see that. That storyline was pretty terribly handled though as it mainly boiled down to you, Emberthal, Ebyssian catching up to Saarkareth, not killing him, he runs off with a magic relic to go do things, and then Emberthal has a talking session with Ebyssian about how they were a part of bad things in the past and need to do better now. Rinse repeat 4x times.

I don't absolve Golden of her responsibility either. People are way too quick to overlook her influence as the only 'real' writer on staff. The fact is that WoW went from a franchise that A-list actors and sports stars were proud to talk about to a dying brand when the testosterone was replaced with the political agendas of the writing staff. The apologists would have you believe that nobody made these decisions and nobody approved them, yet they were somehow all unanimously supportive of the 'democratic writing process'. Choosing to let the staff run amok and approving their submitted work is why Danuser and Golden are responsible.

First, by the time Danuser joined in mid 2015, WoW had already long, long since fallen out of the mainstream, seven years after the WoW hit its peak at the start of WotLK. After a lot of the prominent Blizzard employees and early WoW devs had departed. After Metzen had already talked about being a father to a daughter and Alexstraza's outfit. This was after the DEI initiative. This was after Project Titan had rebooted development as Overwatch, and Tracer would be revealed to be a lesbian in a 2015 comic. The wokening was already happening.

Choosing to let the staff run amok and approving their submitted work is why Danuser and Golden are responsible.

J Allen Brack - the president of Blizzard - was scapegoated as the sacrificial lamb for a mythical, highly sensationalized propaganda story (after a 2 year investigation, the government didn't have any defendants named and wanted to go on a fishing expedition to find some). Remember that there were walkouts. It was a corporate coup. By that point, the company had been so thoroughly converged (due Mike Morihaime embracing a DEI initiative and throwing wide the gates in the early 2010s) that they were now proclaiming their takeover and that anybody not getting along with the program was liable to get a target painted on their back and ousted.

If you want to talk about what went wrong with Warcraft's story, then it goes all the way back to when WC3 and WoW were in simultaneous development. There was no one who had been established as having the authority and a driving vision for what would happen to the franchise's story past WC3. They made this game that sets up all of these plotlines - the Lich King in Northrend amassing his undead army, Illidan dead and the future of the Blood Elves uncertain, an alien army trampling across the galaxy is set to come back. Etc. But then the next game they made did not advance the plot, and there was no plans to make a WC4, and the devs weren't certain if WoW was going to be a success so they deliberately did not touch Outland or Arthas when making Vanilla. Vanilla launched and they then decided to bring back Illidan for the first expansion and then use the Scourge for the second expansion. And then Warcraft just kinda continues being told in WoW as it becomes a little more and more story heavy, but the game is played from the perspective of a bystander to these other "main characters" that the writers are writing as the actual protagonist of the story like Tirion, Thrall, Anduin, etc. The foundation of WoW is in selling player a faction fantasy which the devs have a business motivation not to revoke, so neither the Horde or Alliance can disband or be eliminated or be left behind like how faction stories were definitively concluded in WC3. Severe fundamental and much more crippling problems to the Warcraft story before woke ideology even enters the picture.

As for Golden's writing, I have a much more favorable view of her because of the books, from way back when I was much more invested in the story and was reading a lot of Dragonlance, Warcraft novels, Star Trek novels, Warhammer 40k novels, etc. I wound up throwing most of those away years later. From what I remember her novels were competently written. She was much more straight to the point and did not try to be over elaborate or poetic with her prose try to overdo her dialogue. She got into character's thoughts and did a good job conveying alien perspectives like that of a gloryhound orc butcher like young Grommash, or old Grommash in Lord of the Clans when he is talking to Thrall and he is old and destitute and is small and skinny (as opposed to his WoD version that depicts him big and roided) and is regretful of what he has done and what has befallen his culture has he has become disillusioned with (that the "muh honor" thing was a coverup for mass murder, rape, and robbery).

She also really did try to entertain readers making do with the mandates she gets. With War Crimes she had the unenviable task of trying to somehow bridge MoP to WoD (Garrosh gets put on trial by the Pandaren, escapes to go back in time), and she could have half assed but she did make it entertaining/suspenseful on a moment to moment basis with Baine seeing the ghost of his father and feeling a compulsion to become Garrosh's attorney (somehow Pandaren courts operate like a modern American justice system...), accuser Tyrande using the hour glass of time to bring up old events and pointed questions such as the orcs raping Alexstraza to make her give birth to red dragons which the orcs then enslaved as mounts and rode to death. Anduin talking to Garrosh down in the prison basement and Garrosh reaching through the bars and nearly crushing Anduin. When you think that Garrosh might be repentant. Etc.

The 7.3.5. cutscenes were engaging and I remember that the community really liked them and was hoping that the rest of the story would be on that level going forward, but sadly Golden did not get to write the whole story but only parts of it. Also, Golden in the short stories and the books kept trying to write the characters as more rational people with coherent plans and trying to set them up with spouses or loving marriages, but then you play the game questlines and the characters kept getting set back to being lonely angry people. Jaina was the most obvious victim, oscillating from being in a romance with the calming Kalecgos, to the game where Jaina is by herself and crazy and is shouting at Dalaran archmages while Kalecgos is an ineffectual wimp sitting in the corner.

[DemoGraph]

orcs raping Alexstraza to make her give birth to red dragons which the orcs then enslaved as mounts and rode to death

Fun. Is it PG-13?
I've actually read wiki and they forced her to mate with her official daddy consort.

[J1M]

We agree that the lawsuits were a corporate coup. Activision CEO was targeted as well.

I blame Golden for Anduin becoming too prominent. Maybe she was good at coloring in the lines when she had constraints to work under for novelizations? I haven't read them.

I also prefer the orcs as savage aliens with a code of honor, rather than the humans with tusks they have become.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Fun. Is it PG-13?

Yes. They never go into graphic detail.

The trial winds up being ridiculous because there is nothing practical that Golden could do with it. The 5.4 ending cinematic has Varian deciding to let the Horde go rather than capture or kill everyone while the Alliance army is in Orgrimmar. But the same cinematic has Taran Zhu arresting Garrosh for a trial about "his" crimes, and Golden has to write a book about that. As Tyrande thoroughly points out, there is just no way to really separate his actions from that of the Horde as whole and what they have done over the decades. They all did and it is a farce to focus on just one late arrival. Defense attorney Baine has no defense and says all of it is true. Instead he tries framing proponents of executing Garrosh as being emotionally motivated as if that is an invalidation, and that they shouldn't kill Garrosh because that'd be giving him an easy out, and instead he should live to make reparations and become a better person.

I blame Golden for Anduin becoming too prominent. Maybe she was good at coloring in the lines when she had constraints to work under for novelizations? I haven't read them.

Anduin in the novels was written as somewhat naive/unrealistic hopeful but not weak and directionless young man like how he is depicted ingame from Legion onwards. Actually it is pretty jarring to contrast Anduin's ingame depiction in Mists of Pandaria where he is confident and goes off on his own to do things like fight at Chi-Ji's temple, fights Garrosh over the Divine Bell, networks with Prince Wrathion at the Tavern in the Mists, etc. Versus two expansions where he is an overall do-nothing character who mainly just stands around and feels bad.

I think Anduin was being set up to eventually replace Varian at around the same time the writers decided that Thrall would eventually be succeeded. They wanted to shake things up rather than have the same faces for years on end. Varian was also voiced by Metzen, so when Metzen left at the start of Legion he retired his two characters. Thrall hands the Doomhammer to the Shaman player and then quits the story. The Horde playerbase had been complained that 3 of their leaders had been shuffled out. No Alliance leaders had bit it yet. Varian is the only one with an obvious successor who the playerbase was familiar with due to MoP. So it makes sense to eventually have Anduin fill in that slot.

[Finarfin]

No Idea why people dislike Anduin. Love that dude and I am a diehard horde guy. Also Turalyon will die 100%, and I hope Illidan will do it.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

No Idea why people dislike Anduin. Love that dude and I am a diehard horde guy.

The souring happened during BFA. The pre-release marketing with him donning the mask and attacking Lordaeron got people really excited for him that he would step up and finally do what needs to be done and eliminate the Horde.




Then the actual expansion launched. The ingame Battle for Lordaeron cutscene has Anduin enter the court where Sylvanas lounging on her throne. Rather than lounge at her and kill her, Anduin instead allows her to prattle on. That's it for his appearance in the base expansion launch. Then, in patch 8.1, the Zandalari Empire has joined the Horde, bringing along their Golden Fleet. Alliance military planners plan a pearl harbor campaign to bomb the fleet in Dazar'Alor's harbor, but King Anduin is telling them to hold back. What? The Zandalari have willingly joined the great enemy of civilization. The Horde that wiped out their peaceful Draenei neighbors. The Horde that destroyed their home world and attempted to invade other worlds. The Horde that destroyed kingdoms. The Horde that just broke a peace and incinerated most of Night Elf civilization. The Horde that is going to kill everyone if they win! Why are you holding back? Anyway, the Dazar'Alor op blows up the Golden Fleet, but then when the Alliance military planners advocate for an immediate followup attack, Anduin tells them to stop because "we should let them have time to grieve". Then, Anduin has the gall to not help Tyrande in their war to reclaim their mainland territories for the Horde.

Then there were the Saurfang CGI shorts, where in it Anduin is not on the frontlines or planning attacks, but is instead sitting back home looking at the bodies of his dead men and is being sad, rather than feeling any determination to avenge them or to win the war quickly. Now granted, the Saurfang CIA op turned out to be really good. Anduin got to waltz into the enemy's capital under the guise of being a pallbearer, but the way Anduin is characterized just does not make him a confident war leader. In a franchise predicated about factions fighting each other and cool men being cool, and in a faction war MMO where players want to look up to and feel good about their leaders.

Lastly, the expansion ends with the Alliance army once again at Orgrimmar, but rather than fulfill his father's promise in 5.4 to end the Horde should they ever return to their wicked ways, Anduin lets them off with a white peace. Nobody is punished. Territories are not returned. There are no reparations for the Horde incinerating Night Elf civilization and making the survivors homeless.

The way his unmasked face in the CGI shorts really did not help. He looks like he is on the verge of crying a lot. The pretty boy look is also at odds with his huge shoulderpads. His has a slightly more chiseled jaw that better suits the Warcraft physique.

Also Turalyon will die 100%, and I hope Illidan will do it.

For years the fandom has been dreading that Turalyon will be made out to be evil and then killed. Already in the Midnight beta there are holy paladins as bosses, framed as being evil for being "zealots". Same thing with TWW's demonization of the Arathi paladins' "intolerance" in the Priory dungeon. We'll see.

[Kalarion]

No Idea why people dislike Anduin. Love that dude and I am a diehard horde guy. Also Turalyon will die 100%, and I hope Illidan will do it.

This is such an unimaginably, inconceivably *** take.

Anyone who likes Anduin after he was brought back as a resurrected macguffin needs his head examined. And hoping that the ultimate tryhard *****-boy Illidan will kill one of the most badass characters from Warcraft 2 just needs to be committed.

Repent, brother!

[Stack of Turtles]

Alliance is for gays btw

[Finarfin]

No Idea why people dislike Anduin. Love that dude and I am a diehard horde guy. Also Turalyon will die 100%, and I hope Illidan will do it.

This is such an unimaginably, inconceivably *** take.

Anyone who likes Anduin after he was brought back as a resurrected macguffin needs his head examined. And hoping that the ultimate tryhard *****-boy Illidan will kill one of the most badass characters from Warcraft 2 just needs to be committed.

Repent, brother!

Yeah, I do not care about Warcraft 2. Turalyon is a ****** and everytime an alliance character dies, it is a good thing.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Turalyon is a ******

>Devout servant of The Light
>Took up his commander's mantle and led the Alliance army and finished the campaign against the Horde
>Marched through the Dark Portal to end the Horde menace at the source once and for all, not just to save Azeroth but other worlds as Ner'zhul opened portals for the Horde to invade through.
>Serves in the Army of the Light, fighting demons for a thousand years
>Leads the ground campaign to the doorstep of the Enemy's capital of Antorus
>Rules as regent while the king deserts his duty and meanders around Azeroth looking like a bar diver for 5 years

Only thing he did wrong was his family. Over 1,000 years he only had one child with Alleria. And now his son Arathor is 40 years old but acts like an insecure young teenager like BFA Anduin. Apparently Arathor is going to suck up an entire act of the Midnight levelling questline where you have to watch him get pep talks from mentor figures such as... a Tauren Sunwalker (aka a pagan cow). Instead of his dad. It's a rehash of the Anduin arc we had in Hallowfall in TWW where he needs a pep talk from Faerin.