Various role-playing RPG game stuff not deserving its own thread

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Canonically, one of the unplayable master mages is so ludicrously powerful

she

woke

I recall TBS being almost entirely devoid of any "woke" stuff outside of one single mini event in which the women are trained to be archers and some scoffers are framed as being in the wrong (because manpower is dwindling, you have an army at your heels, you need to hunt for food, etc). Otherwise, that is it. TBS is also very unusual for an RPG in that despite its massive roster, almost all of the playable characters are men. There are I think only 4 or 5 women, most of whom are the mages as that is the only way to feature them in an RPG given how realistic the tone is.

As for the aforementioned most powerful mage, that was Juno. Her student and lover Eyvind had a mental illness or brain malfunction. She used the forbidden technical of mindcontrol/mental tampering to try to alleviate it, but got exposed and was executed for it. Eyvind performed a forbidden ritual to bring her back, and that broke the laws of reality in the world which caused the apocalypse that everyone is running from, and also empowered her. The ending of the third game is not a final boss battle, but a negotiation where you are trying to persuade Eyvind to perform the spell that will reverse what happened to Juno, taking the power away from her and restoring the fabric of reality (at the cost of making Juno sealed inside an orb for all eternity). If you made a few key mistakes in the game, he will not sacrifice her for the greater good and instead opt to let the world die so he can be with her, in which case you have axe him in the back and rely on the selftaught boony shaman to cast the spell but it will backfire and kill the party (though save the world).

I thought that the game ending in a negotiation instead of a final battle was very novel. It was also very interesting that the party that goes to save the world does not feature the original protagonist and heroes (who are instead holding out in a besieged city), but instead primarily features a bunch of murderers and thugs who got taken hostage by Juno to accompany her on the way to the spot to cast the spell. Kinda like The Black Company where the evil mercenaries wind up being the heroes. There is also a big bad snake dragon, but he is too powerful to be fought in gameplay and is instead part of the negotiation scene trying to tempt Eyvind. I wish other RPGs had more such book esque thought put into it (instead of just standard videogame formula)..

[Lich]

Which artists do you like for custom portraits?

[Rand]

[Acrux]

The demo for this game came out today, so I tried it out for a bit. I didn't realize until I started playing that it's an OSR clone - including xp for finding treasure!

I'm not sure what I think about it. Combat was a slog, though, because it shows every dice roll on the screen. You might as well being playing at the table for how long the combat turns took. Characters are all pre-made, only 6 are available now. The artstyle is fine. I liked the automap. The system requirements look low, but I was getting a lot of slowdown and CPU spikes.

[Acrux]

Has anyone played this? Any good?

[DagothGeas5]

@Finarfin

[Finarfin]

Has anyone played this? Any good?

It is basically Diablo 1, where you are in one dungeon that does further and further. Difficulty is high and you got to be careful and not rush into enemy hordes.
You have a male and female character to choose from but what you use is up to you.

[rusty_shackleford]

a lot of classless rpgs have rigid skillchecks and I don't like specializing, I like playing jack of all trades characters
not really sure how this playstyle could be better served in design

probably more cross-skill synergies and such, off the top of my head DOS2 had cross-skill ability books which were neat

[Lich]

How would you implement instant death spells and skills without making important enemies immune to instant death?

[Tadeusz]

How would you implement instant death spells and skills without making important enemies immune to instant death?

I think D&D handles it well already - an enemy must fail a saving throw for the spell to succeed and bosses may have Death Ward spell on them. If a player can somehow dispel this effect and prevent another casting of it then instant death is deserved.

[WhiteShark]

How would you implement instant death spells and skills without making important enemies immune to instant death?

Gameplay-wise, the classic answer is to never make fights against lone enemies. If it is expected that the player can neutralize a single enemy in a single action, then, to maintain the challenge, it follows that danger ought not be overly concentrated in a single enemy.

[rusty_shackleford]

How would you implement instant death spells and skills without making important enemies immune to instant death?

Gameplay-wise, the classic answer is to never make fights against lone enemies. If it is expected that the player can neutralize a single enemy in a single action, then, to maintain the challenge, it follows that danger ought not be overly concentrated in a single enemy.

having a single powerful enemy is really cool

[rusty_shackleford]

How would you implement instant death spells and skills without making important enemies immune to instant death?

I wouldn't add spells that have the effect of instant death on anything other than the enemy critically failing its saving throw

[Vaako]

incase someone is bored, to refresh some memories.

[WhiteShark]

having a single powerful enemy is really cool

Frankly, I agree, but it's hard to make work outside of action games, and definitely not a good match for instant-death spells.

[rusty_shackleford]

why do attributes make you better at skills instead of skills improving your attributes

[Val the Moofia Boss]

why do attributes make you better at skills instead of skills improving your attributes

You can do training to unlock more of your attributes, but you can't really exceed them. A lot of this is genetic. No amount of training will magically increase your height or cause you to widen your shoulders. No amount of training can make your face more handsome. You can do things to make the best of what you have, but your attributes are pretty set. You can rely on gimmicks to disguise yourself, like sucking in your gut and puffing out your chest to appear more top heavy, or undergoing plastic surgery (at the cost of making your face more immobile, also you are at the mercy of the skill and luck of your surgeon who could botch your face), or use lifts on your boots that will inevitably be noticed once you are in a room with people for longer than 10 minutes, etc. But aside from maybe the plastic surgery if you by default have a very unattractive face, these aren't really great solutions.

For game purposes, games are typically not this ultra simulations and the designers are at risk of becoming unable to balance their game if their stat growth formulas become too complicated and esoteric even for them. If you keep each system simple and transparent, it is easier to identify what is working and where the issue is arising from. And if you are doing NPCs on a mass scale that are all being simulated like in a strategy sim, the complex calculations could unnecessarily bog down the performance. Our phones are more powerful than PS3s and some phones are more powerful than PS4s, but still as a policy of a programmer you want to keep your systems under a budget, because they each add up.

[rusty_shackleford]

why do attributes make you better at skills instead of skills improving your attributes

You can do training to unlock more of your attributes, but you can't really exceed them. A lot of this is genetic. No amount of training will magically increase your height or cause you to widen your shoulders. No amount of training can make your face more handsome. You can do things to make the best of what you have, but your attributes are pretty set. You can rely on gimmicks to disguise yourself, like sucking in your gut and puffing out your chest to appear more top heavy, or undergoing plastic surgery (at the cost of making your face more immobile, also you are at the mercy of the skill and luck of your surgeon who could botch your face), or use lifts on your boots that will inevitably be noticed once you are in a room with people for longer than 10 minutes, etc. But aside from maybe the plastic surgery if you by default have a very unattractive face, these aren't really great solutions.

For game purposes, games are typically not this ultra simulations and the designers are at risk of becoming unable to balance their game if their stat growth formulas become too complicated and esoteric even for them. If you keep each system simple and transparent, it is easier to identify what is working and where the issue is arising from. And if you are doing NPCs on a mass scale that are all being simulated like in a strategy sim, the complex calculations could unnecessarily bog down the performance. Our phones are more powerful than PS3s and some phones are more powerful than PS4s, but still as a policy of a programmer you want to keep your systems under a budget, because they each add up.

But you can train to be stronger, more charismatic, etc.,
Rolemaster does differentiate genetic limits from actual values, fwiw

[DemoGraph]

why do attributes make you better at skills instead of skills improving your attributes

[DemoGraph]

I'm in a middle of another Kenshi binge. And, as usual, after a few days I turn to modding.

This time I went into globals, and, again as usual, got frustrated.
On the one hand, I like digging into numbers that various gamedevs put into their systems. One can gleam whole worldviews from them.
On the other, when I do it, I often start scratching my eyes out and looking for airplane tickets to kill the **** loosers as a service to humanity.

In Kenshi's case devs had no idea about:
- how hunger and metabolism work. 33% mult for sleeper hunger rate is smaller than for hibernating bears (they inhale like 5 times per minute and stop ******** for months).
- how markets work and how to balance pricing. They've set 30% trade spread as a norm. It means that you can get up to 1.3/0.7=85% margin trading **** buckets between neighbouring cities.
- adult body weight - 30 kg? seriously?

Yeah, yeah, I know, nobody cares. Odds are, I'll stop as well, drop the game completely after several more days... and return in a year or so.

On the plus side, I've found out that sunrise equations are well documented, and had a reason to recheck my idea about medieval calorie economics.

[Baldric]

UnderRail 2: Infusion looks pretty cool. I like the update to the inventory system, visually storing item in your plate carrier for combat shows on screen. New weapons customization similar to Escape from Tarkov/modern fps games.

The new graphics tickle my fancy too, has a great style imho.

Freshly wish-listed on ol' steam.

[Acrux]

Has anyone played this?



I've seen a few different places refer to it as a "D&D roguelike" (although actually rogue-lite from what I can tell), but I'm just not seeing it. Certainly not as opposed to something like Zorbus which is very obviously a D&D roguelike.

[roldet]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

[UltraFan123]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

I would say that the graphics and reactivity are definitely up there, just like it was the case with the Cyberpunk game.

If something is all style then normies don't care much about substance.

[rusty_shackleford]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

Just all around better games.

[MrTwinkls]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

I have no idea. It shouldn't have worked. I will blame gooners.

[rusty_shackleford]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

I have no idea. It shouldn't have worked. I will blame gooners.

because larian creates worlds that actually let you interact with them vs creating worlds where you go around clicking buttons

It's not good. In fact, I'll explain why it, and other Owlcat games, are not good in depth. This applies equally to the Pillars of Eternity games, they're basically in the same bag. Pale imitations of better games made by people who don't understand why those games were good.
Owlcat games are the paint-by-numbers versions of the IE games, and now somewhat Fallout games I suppose. This is offset by appealing to people who get their jollies by looking at excel spreadsheets.
There is no genuine exploration in the game, as prominent icons clearly mark every interactive element, leading players to simply hop from one map icon to another, interspersed with unremarkable combat encounters. That's right, Owlcat has managed to apply the Ubisoft formula to RPGs and you didn't even notice it, did you?
The game also lacks any meaningful way to interact with the environment or characters:

• Environmental Interaction. The game doesn't provide any real environmental interactions beyond showing a big icon and prompting you to click it. Contrast this to Fallout: the radscorpion cave quest where you can just blow up the cave instead of fighting if the character noticed it and the player thought of the solution(good design), the ability to just blow up doors with explosives.
  • If a door can be blown up in RT, it's clearly marked as such and pointed out to the player with a big icon you click to blow it up. Contrast to Fallout design: letting the player explore the game and figure it out on their own using consistent mechanics(wooden doors can be blown up!) rather than a handful of developer pre-determined doors that can be blown up. This is the reason you see so many modern games throw paint on interactable objects btw, most of these games are static and players just assume they can't interact with things, because why wouldn't they since they otherwise couldn't?
• Character Interaction. Characters are just immobile word banks in Owlcat games. You aren't even allowed to attack them until the game allows you, at least Obsidian got that right, I guess. Did you know nearly every NPC in BG1 can be charmed for unique dialogue? Or consider Fallout's reverse pickpocketing or the (imo) very underrated Tell-me-about.

The hallmark of modern poor RPG design is shoving as much of the game as possible into a dialogue tree and pretending that clicking on dialogue options is gameplay. If you ever find yourself confronted with a CYOA, you are playing a nu-rpg made by people who don't actually like RPGs:

Basically, if Fallout was designed by someone from Owlcat or modern Obsidian, it would look a lot like this:

Not good!

I could go on: referring to this game in particular, lack of any real resource management — you never feel like you're being slowly worn down, you just go from fight to fight at full capacity. And referring only to Owlcat games in general, lack of any combat AI whatsoever(Pillars games did decently enough here), etc.,

---

If you're looking for a good, modern turn-based sci-fi RPG I'd recommend ATOM RPG & its stand-alone expansion Trudograd. Both very good, made by people who understood Fallout, and the devs only ask for a handful of dollars for them despite their quality. And yes, I know Trudograd has that one section with the ****** CYOA scene, I bitched the devs out about it.

[MrTwinkls]

Why do you think Larian games are much popular with normgroids compared to POE or Pathfinder games? Turn based combat? Pretty graphics? Environmental reactivity? Humor?

I have no idea. It shouldn't have worked. I will blame gooners.

because larian creates worlds that actually let you interact with them vs creating worlds where you go around clicking buttons.

I think that Larian games are even worse than Telltale games in regards to consequences of your actions from the narrative standpoint. There are no branching or conclusions at all. Reactivity without recoil is meaningless. Killed an NPC which was important later on? Get some back up version with the same dialogue. Stole something instead of buying? Who cares, just go to easily escapable prison only to get out like you've never got in there. Killed the hag in act 1? Well, you actually didn't, she still will be present in act 3. Lost an eye because of your own stupidity? No you didn't there is a magic replacement immediately. An so on and so forth.
In other RPGs there are maybe less choices but they have some lingering weight to them (In Kingmaker games you even get your own music theme based on your alignment or mythic path). In Larian's you forget about the choices you made the next day.

[rusty_shackleford]

I have no idea. It shouldn't have worked. I will blame gooners.

because larian creates worlds that actually let you interact with them vs creating worlds where you go around clicking buttons.

I think that Larian games are even worse than Telltale games in regards to consequences of your actions from the narrative standpoint. There are no branching or conclusions at all. Reactivity without recoil is meaningless. Killed an NPC which was important later on? Get some back up version with the same dialogue. Stole something instead of buying? Who cares, just go to easily escapable prison only to get out like you've never got in there. Killed the hag in act 1? Well, you actually didn't, she still will be present in act 3. Lost an eye because of your own stupidity? No you didn't there is a magic replacement immediately. An so on and so forth.
In other RPGs there are maybe less choices but they have some lingering weight to them (In Kingmaker games you even get your own music theme based on your alignment or mythic path). In Larian's you forget about the choices you made the next day.

what does this have to do with kangmaker being about running around pressing UI buttons as they pop up?

[MrTwinkls]

because larian creates worlds that actually let you interact with them vs creating worlds where you go around clicking buttons.

I think that Larian games are even worse than Telltale games in regards to consequences of your actions from the narrative standpoint. There are no branching or conclusions at all. Reactivity without recoil is meaningless. Killed an NPC which was important later on? Get some back up version with the same dialogue. Stole something instead of buying? Who cares, just go to easily escapable prison only to get out like you've never got in there. Killed the hag in act 1? Well, you actually didn't, she still will be present in act 3. Lost an eye because of your own stupidity? No you didn't there is a magic replacement immediately. An so on and so forth.
In other RPGs there are maybe less choices but they have some lingering weight to them (In Kingmaker games you even get your own music theme based on your alignment or mythic path). In Larian's you forget about the choices you made the next day.

what does this have to do with kangmaker being about running around pressing UI buttons as they pop up?

You feel something other than boredom when you press them thanks to context provided by the rest of the game.

► Show Spoiler

Also I like excel spreadsheets. They are cool.