The Legacy of Kain (NEW GAMES ANNOUNCED)

[Vergil]

I recently played through all of the Legacy of Kain games (besides Blood Omen 1 which I'm beginning now) and I quite enjoyed them. I even purchased the Soul Reaver remasters after emulating the originals and played through them each a second time.
The remasters aren't bad (particular the Soul Reaver 1 remaster) but I would still recommend playing them as originally intended as much as possible. Especially Soul Reaver 2 as there are a lot of issues with the facial animations on Kain in particularly that I don't see a lot of people talking about.
With the remasters allegedly performing slightly above expectations and the new graphic novel that's out (which is dogshit terrible btw) it seems this franchise which has been dead for almost 25 years might actually be resurrected in the near future.
Has anyone else played these games? Which one do you prefer?

[Oyster Sauce]

I lost my Blood Omen save. Kind of a rough game. Don't people mostly care about Soul Reaver?

[rusty_shackleford]

I always forget this series has a convoluted weird time travel plot

[Vergil]

Kind of a rough game.

To be honest they were all kind of rough around the edges. The series having a weird convoluted naming scheme goes hand in hand with it never really having a cohesive gameplay style.
The first is a top down 2D old zelda RPG type game. Soul Reaver 1 is an open world exploration, puzzles and platforming game. Soul Reaver 2 is a more linear puzzles and platforming game. Blood Omen 2 is more combat focused and strictly linear, and Defiance is a DMC1 knock off.

Don't people mostly care about Soul Reaver?

Soul Reaver is when it became more popular/mainstream but the original Blood Omen was kind of a cult classic from what I understand.

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't people mostly care about Soul Reaver?

Soul Reaver games were relatively popular, I owned them at some point and don't even remember how I got them.

[Vergil]

This post is going to be a very autistic random tangent but the biggest issue I have with the Soul Reaver 2 remaster is the character model they made for Kain and how much subtlety it is lacking in my opinion.
Elder Kain has always looked a bit brutish in promotional art to the point I think it *really* hampers an outsider's view of his character in comparison to how he is actually presented.
He looks very much like a big, borderline orcish brute with a scowling face and huge two handed sword.
In the actual games he's an extremely thoughtful schemer with a posh aristocratic background and speaks in constant purple prose.

The Soul Reaver remasters seem to lean very heavily on how he appears in the CGI intro for Soul Reaver 1 which I can understand to an extent and when the comparison is between the extremely low poly PS1 Kain character model and the new remaster model it's clear to see how the new one could be seen as an improvement.

However for Soul Reaver 2, where the characters actually had facial animations on the PS2 unlike Soul Reaver 1 on the PS1, the model definitely does not feel made for this game in mind and Kain's features are basically set to a permanent angry brutish scowl no matter what the scenario.

This is "okay" for some scenes like below where Kain is already somewhat angry...

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... but the model is clearly unwieldy and poorly attached to the animations which causes it to pull these insane TES IV Oblivion 0 disposition tier expressions that just look more comical than anything

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There's a lot of little things going on with Kain's expressions and demeanor in this game that are obliterated visually by this attempt to just sort of graft the model made with Soul Reaver 1 in mind over it. There's a noticeable lack of depth to his eyes. In these you can see that it looks almost as if Kain is looking *through* whatever his eyes are on. Like he's always calculating, weighing options and trying to plan out the great big game running on top of everything.
In the remaster he just looks like he's ****** at whatever he's looking at, even when in the original PS2 graphics there's almost a softness to his expression that has been lost.

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This is also just a bit of a subjective nitpick but I really don't like the overall aesthetic they went with for Kain. Even Defiance started to bulk him up a bit and have him scowl a lot of the time but even still he could pull some other expressions besides angry Oblivion Orc 24/7.
His chin is just so ******* massive, his crown ridges are even more angular into permanent anger brows, and he's just overall too puffed out. He's lost the more vampiric sunken cheekbones look which I much prefer personally.

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[Vergil]

As a seperate addendum it's already been confirmed by people who worked on the remaster that they didn't really have the budget to do a full scale remaster of both games which is why Soul Reaver 1 got brand new models for all of the enemies, characters, bosses, and weapons but Soul Reaver 2 only got a couple of important characters remodeled and the rest are carried over from Soul Reaver 1 or *very* basic upscales.

[rusty_shackleford]

do the remasters at least let you use the original grafx?

[Vergil]

do the remasters at least let you use the original grafx?

Thankfully it is Halo 1/2 Anniversary style where you just press a button to instantly switch between graphics.

[Stack of Turtles]

Defiance is that one with the hot alien redhead, right?

[Almstaker]

Discount zelda.

[Magick]

do the remasters at least let you use the original grafx?

What's the point of a "remaster" (which I always prefer over a "remake") then, though? Other than compatibility.
Also lol those ******* bulging eyes...

Started with Soul Reaver 1, then 2. Still got to go and actually play Blood Omen 1 at some point, though I've read the lore.
Never bothered with the later ones as I'd stopped console gaming by then.

Loved Soul Reaver 1, phenomenal soundtrack and interesting setting / powers / puzzles.
S2 was ok, bit of a "more" of 1 (which is fine).

The combat could have done with a bit of "weight" to the hits though, especially when using the physical weapons in S2 (which I'm glad they put in).
Little known tidbit, the humans in S1 treat you differently based on whether you kill them or not. (Sapping just a bit of their soul is fine as long as you don't kill them).

Intro for S1:

[rusty_shackleford]

What's the point of a "remaster" (which I always prefer over a "remake") then, though? Other than compatibility.

fix annoyances, which is the point

[Vergil]

What's the point of a "remaster" (which I always prefer over a "remake") then, though? Other than compatibility.

Really the only benefit of the remasters to me are the small QoL features like shifting between the material/spectral realm being near instant (which in another obvious way the SR2 remaster is rushed, it goes back to being *slower* in that game), the compass, camera controls and the map.
Also even on original graphics mode SR1 has unlimited view distance and high framerate which the PS1 version definitely did not have. The Dreamcast was better but I think the fog to hide view distance was still lower but I could be wrong.

Never bothered with the later ones as I'd stopped console gaming by then.

Blood Omen 2 gets a bad rap (which isn't entirely undeserved if I'm honest) but I found it fairly enjoyable in the end. I love having Kain as a protagonist as they never really pussy foot around him being a despotic vampire demigod. He still chuckles to himself while sucking the blood from random goycattle. I liked that upgrading your health was tied to feeding as well so you always had a reason to do it although it did become a *bit* tedious by the end.
The story is a bit of a **** show though which is why Defiance had to commit so much time to trying to make it make sense and fit in with the lore since it was made by a separate team not communicating with the SR2 team.

Defiance is, like the rest of the games, pretty heavy on the missed potential. I love Devil May Cry so I like that the combat had more of a focus and weight to it but it was still just too bare bones. You only have about 5 moves you learn through the whole game and despite switching between Kain and Raziel their moves are functionally identical.
The level design is truly atrocious too. At least half the levels if not more consist of the same circular temples where Kain/Raziel earn upgrades for their Soul Reavers that are pretty vaguely useful outside of puzzle solving.

The combat could have done with a bit of "weight" to the hits though, especially when using the physical weapons in S2 (which I'm glad they put in).

Ultimately none of the game end up making combat feel worthwhile by the end. Blood Omen 2 and Defiance come close by having health upgrades tied to feeding in BO2 and learning new moves tied to kills in Defiance. But by the halfway point you're really just going to be running past enemies because why bother? Soul Reaver 1 and 2 were the worst with this imo.

[Fitz]

On the topic of resurrecting this franchise it seem unlikely. Eidos-Montréal had layoffs a week ago and several projects were cancelled. Including the revival of a dark fantasy project centered around vampires.

[Vergil]

Including the revival of a dark fantasy project centered around vampires.

So there's a lot of misinformation going around about that. The "dark fantasy arpg based around a vampire property" was cancelled back in like 2022 before lay offs even.
This post goes more into it.

[rusty_shackleford]

On the topic of resurrecting this franchise it seem unlikely. Eidos-Montréal had layoffs a week ago and several projects were cancelled. Including the revival of a dark fantasy project centered around vampires.

It would have been really bad

[Lancaster]

The Legacy of Kain series was good due to it washing the bad taste of Interview With The Vampire's gayness out of everyone's mouths, and before vampires sparkled when in sunlight. Had more of a Bram Stokers vibe.

[Vergil]

The Legacy of Kain series was good due to it washing the bad taste of Interview With The Vampire's gayness out of everyone's mouths, and before vampires sparkled when in sunlight. Had more of a Bram Stokers vibe.

All of the exclusively male vampire lieutenants are shirtless hunks in leather pants and Raziel looks like this before becoming a wraith btw

[rusty_shackleford]

I don't read anything written by a foid for my own mental health

[Vergil]

Women are good at writing vampire media because they just replace their neurotic thirst for attention and replace it with blood.

[The_Mask]

The Legacy of Kain series was good due to it washing the bad taste of Interview With The Vampire's gayness out of everyone's mouths, and before vampires sparkled when in sunlight. Had more of a Bram Stokers vibe.

Look, I have enjoyed the series when it came out game after game, just like everybody else at the time. But you can't tell me that you can label stuff like Soul Reaver 2 as "good".

The series was fun, dark and occasionally witty (haha! Raziel can change the world, but is easily manipulated, and Kain can barely do anything to change anything, but can see through everything, like every good leader should! haha! Aren't we witty?!? Huh?!?) but we will both be beneath the cold earth before the series will see a real ending. A real, actual ending. Written by someone that loves the series and understands every bit of lore and pixel and has the brains to give everyone the ending that we feel we earned to get.

Just accept that we are ephemeral and some things we are never meant to see.

edits: spelling

[Vergil]

The Legacy of Kain series was good due to it washing the bad taste of Interview With The Vampire's gayness out of everyone's mouths, and before vampires sparkled when in sunlight. Had more of a Bram Stokers vibe.

Look, I have enjoyed the series when it came out game after game, just like everybody else at the time. But you can't tell me that you can label stuff like Soul Reaver 2 as "good".

The series was fun, dark and occasionally witty (haha! Raziel can change the world, but is easily manipulated, and Kain can barely do anything to change anything, but can see through everything, like every good leader should! haha! Aren't we witty?!? Huh?!?) but we will both be beneath the cold earth before the series will see a real ending. A real, actual ending. Written by someone that loves the series and understands every bit of lore and pixel and has the brains to give everyone the ending that we feel we earned to get.

Just accept that we are ephemeral and some things we are never meant to see.

edits: spelling

Are you okay?

[Stack of Turtles]

A real, actual ending. Written by someone that loves the series and understands every bit of lore and pixel and has the brains to give everyone the ending that we feel we earned to get.

... so you want Vergil to write a fanfiction?

[Vergil]

A real, actual ending. Written by someone that loves the series and understands every bit of lore and pixel and has the brains to give everyone the ending that we feel we earned to get.

... so you want Vergil to write a fanfiction?

It's 2025 I can do far more than just write the fan fiction now

► WARNING THIS POST CONTAINS AT LEAST 2 RULE VIOLATIONS PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL JANNY AKA SEND RUSTY 6 MILLION DMs

[The_Mask]

... so you want Vergil to write a fanfiction?

No. I would prefer if Vergil just stopped using the Internet all together. But, again, we don't get what we want, don't we...

[Vergil]

[Fitz]

During my childhood I remember going through the Soul Reaver demo over and over again on my PS1. The atmosphere really made me feel like I was diving into something that there wasn't anywhere else to experience. Maybe except for Oddworld in a way. I never played the game fully and remember being turned off by the idea of doing so when I found out the whole thing involves some odd form of time travel - a narrative device I am still not a big fan of, tho time travel paradoxes like the ones in the series are intriguing.

Time passed and Defiance came out. I got to play it in the computer clubs around the city but never finished it fully. The controls and combat felt a bit janky for me at the time, so I didn't bother with investing my time in it and because of the situation - my limited money too. Even tho I was captivated by the setting, atmosphere and everything else that wasn't the gameplay.

Fast forward in time some more and I played the remastered edition of the first Soul Reaver and I came to the same conclusion - I like the atmosphere and most parts of the story but didn't vibe with the gameplay. The whole zelda like approach and the backtracking isn't really my thing. Even when playing Darksiders I was annoyed by that part of the game. So, I never did finish the games but I watched some videos about the series and don't think I missed out on much. If the game gets selected for the Adventurer's Guild I will give it another shot, but the series does not excel in the gameplay department and that's a dealbreaker for me.

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Maybe one day the stars will align and some studio will focus all the potential of the series into something more modern with good combat and improved parkour/platforming. And not at the expense of the writing and atmosphere.

[Jordy]

LoK was one of my favourite game series when I was growing up.
My friend and I were so shocked at how easy the last fight of Soul Reaver 1 was and how the ending felt cut short.

Hard to choose one between SR 1, 2 and Defiance but I settled on Soul Reaver 2 just because that's where the story really picks up for the Soul Reaver games.

Running through Vorador's Fortress with your talon's clacking on the icy floor was very satisfying.

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I recently went through the Soul Reaver 1 Remaster but got fatigued at the Ruined City. It's not far from the end so I suppose I should go back and finish it.

Blood Omen 1, 2 and SR Defiance you get to play as Kain, an actual vampire, which is a lot more satisfying. Plus you get to hear Vae Victis or an evil laugh when you kill someone. I'm a simple man.

[Jordy]

Footage of the LoK reboot they were making but got canceled.

There are some NSFW bits including partial nudity.

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