Vampire: The Masquerade® - Bloodlines™ 2

[Roguey]

I will be playing on release day. It sounds like another iteration of Night Road and Swansong only with the addition of stealth and combat as core gameplay and fortunately I liked those games well enough.

[Valter]

Please god not another turd please god it's been a rough 2025 for gaming

[Demonic Fate]

Please god not another turd please god it's been a rough 2025 for gaming

I've got a backlog of good games the size of your kindly mother's buttocks. In general, I prefer absolute turds to mediocre games because at least I'm not tempted to waste time on them.

But I've got major VtM nostalgia so I hope this makes the cut to "decent enough".

[GhostCow]

Please god not another turd please god it's been a rough 2025 for gaming

Assuming none of them get delayed past 2025, I have like 10 games I want to play that are coming out by the end of the year

[Valter]

Please god not another turd please god it's been a rough 2025 for gaming

I've got a backlog of good games the size of your kindly mother's buttocks. In general, I prefer absolute turds to mediocre games because at least I'm not tempted to waste time on them.

But I've got major VtM nostalgia so I hope this makes the cut to "decent enough".

You will spend 40 hours in this and regret every minute of it As will I

[Brother Chad]

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/rpg/va ... -2-review/
1.5/5

Pros
+Clans not locked behind DLC after all
+Occasionally nice to look at

[The_Mask]

I don't usually like to be edgy and throw predictions around because I like to be pleasantly surprised, but this one time I'm going to throw my hat in the ring: it's going to bomb. Hard. Nobody will touch this for another 30 years at the minimum kind of bomb.

[DemoGraph]

I kinda forgot that this existed. And, well...


But to be honest, some criticisms could've been applied to original VTMB as well: no cars on the roads, the hubs are pretty empty and many of the skills are useless.

It didn't have a dumb double character premise, though. Who the hell even thought that it was a good idea. Double plots like this are very hard to do well.

[gerey]

it's going to bomb. Hard. Nobody will touch this for another 30 years at the minimum kind of bomb.

It's already imploding. Hell, it was falling apart months before release, with Paradox themselves ******** on it. Not even journalists are bothering to glaze it.

Also, you're pretty optimistic anyone will care about WoD in 30 years. At the rate things are going, the setting will be dead and buried within a decade - the current crop of writers are no better than the previous bunch of ******* Paradox had all fired, and Paradox have sworn off making cRPGs because of the Bloodlines 2 fiasco.

Unless someone else bothers buying the IP from them, there will be no Bloodlines 3, or any actual WoD games in the future. Bloodlines 1 was released arguably at the apex of the popularity o the IP, and nothing since has ever come close in making it relevant again.

It didn't have a dumb double character premise, though. Who the hell even thought that it was a good idea. Double plots like this are very hard to do well.

The original pitch was equally ********. Who the **** wants to play a thinblood, the literal gypsy ******* of the vampire race?

[logincrash]

It didn't have a dumb double character premise, though. Who the hell even thought that it was a good idea. Double plots like this are very hard to do well.

The original pitch was equally ********. Who the **** wants to play a thinblood, the literal gypsy ******* of the vampire race?

This is pretty funny, considering that the setting already has both gypsy vampires and ****** vampires.

[gerey]

This is pretty funny, considering that the setting already has both gypsy vampires and ****** vampires.

And gypsies are treated as a separate race, and have their owe separate splat.

What was White Wolf trying to tell us?

[Roguey]

Wishlist numbers have gone up since the reviews, showing that those guys are only useful to provide exposure, no one really pays attention to anything they say.

The CCU will be higher than The Outer Worlds 2, pretty confident in that.

[Kolgrim]

The only good thing about this game is that it's going to be a day one release on GoG which means it's easy to pirate just like Baldur's Gape 3. I'm sure the shills on youtube will call it RPG of the year though.

[Atlantico]

The CCU will be higher than The Outer Worlds 2, pretty confident in that.

This is obvious.

TOW2 is following the absolute ****-on-a-stick that was TOW, so of course that will flop. No matter what.

VtMB2 is following the critically acclaimed and cult-status game VtMB, so that will ensure VtMB2 will be played by more people than the garbage TOW2 that followed the garbage TOW.

[DemoGraph]

It didn't have a dumb double character premise, though. Who the hell even thought that it was a good idea. Double plots like this are very hard to do well.

The original pitch was equally ********. Who the **** wants to play a thinblood, the literal gypsy ******* of the vampire race?

Oh, I kinda forgot about that as well.
I think it would've been interesting if done properly. Vanilla 13 gen are already the weakest of the lot, cannon fodder for the elders. Being a thinblood adds an additional underdog stage with a twist - you obviously have to diablerize someone and that should either put you against the Camarilla or give you (and your probable patron) a dark secret for others to exploit. So it could've been neat.

[gerey]

VtMB2 is following the critically acclaimed and cult-status game VtMB, so that will ensure VtMB2 will be played by more people than the garbage TOW2 that followed the garbage TOW.

Which is so hilarious to me. The press surrounding Bloodlines 2 is absolutely abysmal. Nobody, anywhere, has anything positive to say about the game, and yet it's outperforming Obsidian's new magnum opus.

Will Jeetsoft do the needful and shut Obsidian down after OW2 flops? When was the last time the company released anything profitable?

you obviously have to diablerize someone and that should either put you against the Camarilla or give you (and your probable patron) a dark secret for others to exploit. So it could've been neat.

Wouldn't that be playing a 13th gen with extra steps?

I do agree that diablerizing, as an option, when playing a normal vampire, could add an interesting twist, but that would require the game to have a lot more reactivity, and there's maybe two devs in the industry left with the resources and interest to do something like that.

[DemoGraph]

Wouldn't that be playing a 13th gen with extra steps?

Your objection is like saying that "any gen is like playing max_gen_you_can_catch with extra steps". Yet we still begin Diablo at level 1.

And - not quite. Because if you're 13th, you're just a generic rags-to-riches shmuck. If you're thinblooded-turned-shmuck, you're already a clinical curiosity, and a story could be spun around it. Something around getting closer and closer to Caine, shedding your mortality and missing it, dealing with crazy scientists who want to check whether you differ from ordinary vamps, dealing with anarchs who see you as a symbol of Gehenna, etc. You're like messiah, but without any perks of being one.
And yes, any plot could be spun in this direction. But I think it could've been organic and interesting with this one.

[J1M]

It didn't have a dumb double character premise, though. Who the hell even thought that it was a good idea. Double plots like this are very hard to do well.

The original pitch was equally ********. Who the **** wants to play a thinblood, the literal gypsy ******* of the vampire race?

Oh, I kinda forgot about that as well.
I think it would've been interesting if done properly. Vanilla 13 gen are already the weakest of the lot, cannon fodder for the elders. Being a thinblood adds an additional underdog stage with a twist - you obviously have to diablerize someone and that should either put you against the Camarilla or give you (and your probable patron) a dark secret for others to exploit. So it could've been neat.

And for gameplay purposes, would have allowed you to choose your clan after learning about them in game.

[gerey]

you're already a clinical curiosity, and a story could be spun around it. Something around getting closer and closer to Caine, shedding your mortality and missing it, dealing with crazy scientists who want to check whether you differ from ordinary vamps, dealing with anarchs who see you as a symbol of Gehenna, etc. You're like messiah, but without any perks of being one

Sounds gay as ****. If I wanted a game built around the persecution complex, I'd have picked the Jew class in Stick of Truth.

Thin bloods are a gay, they exist to be pitied or brutalized, not played as. They're the tumblr clan - eternal victims, but with Mary Sue powers.

And for gameplay purposes, would have allowed you to choose your clan after learning about them in game.

Anyone that doesn't immediately grasp what each clan is about should seek medical help, because he may be clinically ********.

[DemoGraph]

Thin bloods are a gay, they exist to be pitied or brutalized

ditto everyone over 9th

[gerey]

ditto everyone over 9th

Fair, but you were playing a 9th (or lower) gen in Bloodlines 1, hence why you got to do things solo, and survive every attempt by LaCroix to kill you off.

I may be biased since I hate what V5 does with thinbloods. They were never conceived as being player characters, but props that signify just how bad things were getting for the kindred. Giving them **** like blood alchemy defeats the purpose.

Now, making the PC a 13th gen has benefits, but only if the game allows you to play as part of a coterie, since you're too weak to accomplish much on your own otherwise.

It has most of the elements of what you said would make thinblood playthrough so compelling, without any of the gay ****. Dablerie, and its benefits/consequences, would be particularly interesting as a way to pull yourself up the generational rug, but I maintain there is no developer in the business that could to the concept justice, or really develop a Vampire game without making it even gayer than what NWoD already is.

[DemoGraph]

I may be biased since I hate what V5 does with thinbloods.

I vaguely remember skimming through nWoD Vamp Core once and dropping it. I have no idea what they did to 14+ gens. And don't want to. Seeing what they did to core nVamp and nChangeling was enough. (though I think that nMage was okay? I almost don't remember it.)

[stormvermin]

Unless someone else bothers buying the IP from them, there will be no Bloodlines 3, or any actual WoD games in the future. Bloodlines 1 was released arguably at the apex of the popularity o the IP, and nothing since has ever come close in making it relevant again.

The best thing Paradox could do for the IP atm would be to allow the ******** to finish their Bloodlines-in-Skyrim mod unmolested.

[rusty_shackleford]

I never saw anything valuable in the IP itself to begin with, it's D&D with 1/1000th the brand recognition. Create your own urban vampire mafioso setting.

[gerey]

I never saw anything valuable in the IP itself to begin with

The Clans were a great way of incorporating all the various depictions of vampires that have appeared in folklore and fiction, plus the ambiguity of the background lore about Kain, Gehenna, the Antediluvians etc. creates an interesting backdrop. Also, the fact it was urban fantasy that wasn't made for women to goon to, and tried to make the vampiric existence sound monstrous and horrific helped make it stand out.

That being said, it's very late 1990s and early 00s, and doesn't really work that well outside of that cultural context. I have no clue how they'd keep a lid on the masquerade with every random ****** having access to a HD camera, with the ability to instantly beam the recording online for thousands, and likely millions, of people to see.

Werewolf was ****** from the get go - bestiality, eco-faggotry et al ruined what could have been a pretty cool "rip and tear" setting where you control a werewolf that can summon spooky spirits.

[J1M]

I never saw anything valuable in the IP itself to begin with

The Clans were a great way of incorporating all the various depictions of vampires that have appeared in folklore and fiction, plus the ambiguity of the background lore about Kain, Gehenna, the Antediluvians etc. creates an interesting backdrop. Also, the fact it was urban fantasy that wasn't made for women to goon to, and tried to make the vampiric existence sound monstrous and horrific helped make it stand out.

That being said, it's very late 1990s and early 00s, and doesn't really work that well outside of that cultural context. I have no clue how they'd keep a lid on the masquerade with every random ****** having access to a HD camera, with the ability to instantly beam the recording online for thousands, and likely millions, of people to see.

Werewolf was ****** from the get go - bestiality, eco-faggotry et al ruined what could have been a pretty cool "rip and tear" setting where you control a werewolf that can summon spooky spirits.

Yes, I sound like a broken record at this point, but Vampire The Masquerade should be treated as a period piece and all games for it should be set in the 90s.

[rusty_shackleford]

I never saw anything valuable in the IP itself to begin with

The Clans were a great way of incorporating all the various depictions of vampires that have appeared in folklore and fiction, plus the ambiguity of the background lore about Kain, Gehenna, the Antediluvians etc. creates an interesting backdrop. Also, the fact it was urban fantasy that wasn't made for women to goon to, and tried to make the vampiric existence sound monstrous and horrific helped make it stand out.

That being said, it's very late 1990s and early 00s, and doesn't really work that well outside of that cultural context. I have no clue how they'd keep a lid on the masquerade with every random ****** having access to a HD camera, with the ability to instantly beam the recording online for thousands, and likely millions, of people to see.

Werewolf was ****** from the get go - bestiality, eco-faggotry et al ruined what could have been a pretty cool "rip and tear" setting where you control a werewolf that can summon spooky spirits.

Barely any of this is unique to the IP, you can do 1990s urban fantasy vampires just fine.
Contrast with e.g., trying to ape Star Trek. Despite Star Trek being the most important part of the 'standard futuristic space sci-fi setting'(not nearly as well-defined as standard fantasy setting, of course), attempting to copy it just feels like a copy of Star Trek because there's so many unique elements.
VTM itself overlaps with existing culture so heavily that its own uniqueness is very diluted. It's not a stretch just to call it an extension of 1980s/1990s Goth subculture. Arguably one of the most iconic things about it(vampire mafioso) is the thing the owners seem to hate the most.

Without VTMB, VTM would probably just be another footnote in tabletop gaming history. It had a short 15 minutes in the spotlight but never even got close to eclipsing D&D, plenty of other games have also. I believe Call of Cthulhu is currently experiencing similar, or was.

[rusty_shackleford]

Without VTMB, VTM would probably just be another footnote in tabletop gaming history. It had a short 15 minutes in the spotlight but never even got close to eclipsing D&D, plenty of other games have also. I believe Call of Cthulhu is currently experiencing similar, or was.

VTM isn't the only tabletop RPG like this TBH, Shadowrun is basically on life support at this point(likely dead?) but it got some good video game adaptations over the years.
The video games are even some of the top search results for Shadowrun.

Used to be yugely popular.

[Roguey]

VtM ended in 2004, months before Bloodlines had even released, sales just weren't there anymore. Hardly anyone cared too much about Requiem. V20 was just a nostalgia-grab, one last gasp before Paradox got very stupid and tried to force longevity.

[LemonDemonGirl]

The Clans were a great way of incorporating all the various depictions of vampires that have appeared in folklore and fiction, plus the ambiguity of the background lore about Kain, Gehenna, the Antediluvians etc. creates an interesting backdrop. Also, the fact it was urban fantasy that wasn't made for women to goon to, and tried to make the vampiric existence sound monstrous and horrific helped make it stand out.

Lilith is usually the first/creator vampire in MOST vampire media so this never sat well with me

That being said, it's very late 1990s and early 00s, and doesn't really work that well outside of that cultural context. I have no clue how they'd keep a lid on the masquerade with every random ****** having access to a HD camera, with the ability to instantly beam the recording online for thousands, and likely millions, of people to see.

Lasombra have no reflections and don't show up on recordings. Otherwise agreed.

Werewolf was ****** from the get go - bestiality, eco-faggotry et al ruined what could have been a pretty cool "rip and tear" setting where you control a werewolf that can summon spooky spirits.

The mere fact that Werewolves are literally just a 'natural' race -and not a 'created' one like vampires- is dogshit (pun not intended). Just throw the entire setting in the garbage.