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Je ne sais quoi elements in game design

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Je ne sais quoi elements in game design

Post by rusty_shackleford »

https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.ht ... sais quoi
je ne sais quoi
A quality or attribute that is difficult to describe or express.
Despite being a fairly low budget title(relatively) Expedition 33 feels like a high budget game. It falls apart at the seams if you know what to look for, but it has high 'production values'(vague term) that you usually only see in games with large budgets and experienced lead developers/producers.
It's not hard to contrast E33 to Avowed, for example. Avowed is an amateur game made by a studio owned by one of the largest corporations in the world after years of development.
AA used to be synonymous with lacking that certain kind of polish.

:pipe-thinking:
What do you think is the cause of this?
Probably helps if you've played E33, but not required.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on October 16th, 2025, 18:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WaterMage »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 16th, 2025, 18:55
What do you think is the cause of this?
Diversity hires.
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Post by DemoGraph »

I don't understand the question. Is it
What quality makes a game seem expensive?
Or
What quality forces a game to stand out?

Also, reported for practical europhilia.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

DemoGraph wrote: October 16th, 2025, 19:15
I don't understand the question.
Interpret it how you want
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Post by Tadeusz »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 16th, 2025, 18:55
What do you think is the cause of this?
Competency crisis and funds mismanagement. I guess E33 devs just had better team and better management than most big studios nowadays.
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Post by Rienen »

If we're interpreting the question however we want, then I'm going to go with a "well-designed, responsive, and informative UI". The ones done well, probably don't get noticed... but the ones done poorly can easily ruin a game for me.
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Post by PixiGreen »

We might be at a plateau of production quality relative to cost. Any game with a budget of around, say, $50M and above can look and feel great - there’s little room for improvement in visuals or polish. After that, extra money mostly buys manpower: how many less competent people a project can survive with, or how many half-competent interns it takes to replace one skilled dev (or how many CEOs are splitting the budget between each other).

Expedition 33 was made by a small focused team of professionals, plus newcomers handpicked by professionals. No extra fat, no crazy CEOs' salaries. Obsidian lost much of its professional staff long ago, replaced with random DEI hires and got several CEOs above them. The result is on the screen.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Rienen wrote: October 16th, 2025, 19:37
If we're interpreting the question however we want,
I think it fits the theme of the thread and I like to read what people come up with
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Post by DemoGraph »

I'll interpret it as "what makes the game distinct". That is, memorable.

First thing you have to have a coherent media design, both visual and sound. I think anyone can recognize themes from BG, HoMM3 or Ace Combat in several seconds. Same goes for screenshots and other visual design.
Second thing you have to have is a sticky game loop. It should pose non-obvious problems to a player that could hook him to continue playing for a long time. And/or put him into a flow state of mind. That game loop would also create a "functional" hook, "manual memory" that media design would attach to for additional kick.
Third couple of things you have to have are verisimilitude and generally coherent approach to a game. Ludonarrative dissonance and other clever words go here. Basically, gameplay and its media presentation should be coherent enough as to not kick a player out of his suspension of disbelief and should reward a player for progress (incl. with pain and suffering).

Particular plot points, mechanics and other issues are secondary to that holistic approach to design centered on a game loop.
And, well, large publisher, that tries to work on conveyor-like model, are pretty much doomed to mediocrity. They're structurally at odds with craftsman-centric approach that places lead designer vision at the front of development.
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Post by Tweed »

Darklands, despite being one of the first, if not the first game to have rtwp combat has that special quality about it. I think a lot of it has to do with the degree of research they poured into the game.
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Post by Bertram_Tung »

The foreign term “je ne sais quoi” literally means “I don’t know what.”

You’re asking me to explain the cause of… something you can’t define. If you don’t know what you’re asking, I can’t provide a meaningful answer.

To the broader meaning of your inquiry which I interpret as the true "je ne sai quoi" at play here, the answer is simply "leftism".
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Bertram_Tung wrote: October 17th, 2025, 12:45
The foreign term “je ne sais quoi” literally means “I don’t know what.”

You’re asking me to explain the cause of… something you can’t define. If you don’t know what you’re asking, I can’t provide a meaningful answer.

To the broader meaning of your inquiry which I interpret as the true "je ne sai quoi" at play here, the answer is simply "leftism".
The question is more towards, "what element makes games feel like they have a certain professional quality"
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Post by Tweed »

Half-Life reflected that in all the elements that most people didn't pay attention to, like roaches running from lights, houndeye behavior, and that kind of thing. Level of detail plays a role.
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Post by Bertram_Tung »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:10
Bertram_Tung wrote: October 17th, 2025, 12:45
The foreign term “je ne sais quoi” literally means “I don’t know what.”

You’re asking me to explain the cause of… something you can’t define. If you don’t know what you’re asking, I can’t provide a meaningful answer.

To the broader meaning of your inquiry which I interpret as the true "je ne sai quoi" at play here, the answer is simply "leftism".
The question is more towards, "what element makes games feel like they have a certain professional quality"
Got it, then I stand by my previous answer. But rather than focus on the games that achieve that professional quality, my answer is about the ones that don’t, the large-budget titles that obviously should.

The reason is leftism, plain and simple, cultural leftism within the organization. Marxism puts ideology above merit, promoting people for alignment with doctrine rather than skill, and prioritizing political correctness over substance, talent, or ability. Mismanaging a budget is also intrinsic to leftism because leftists don’t understand the value of resources. It’s always someone else’s wheat, someone else’s responsibility, someone else’s problem, someone else's fault, someone else’s money. There is no ownership, no care, no love, which are necessary parts to create something beautiful, something they are unable to do.

This is classic leftism, and the endemic rot that eats any organization trying to produce a genuinely high quality product or result.
Last edited by Bertram_Tung on October 17th, 2025, 13:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by gerey »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 16th, 2025, 18:55
What do you think is the cause of this?
In the case of Avowed, a lot of the blame can be placed on Microsoft leadership. Statistically, out of two dozen studios they've bought up, at least a few of them should be capable of making a game that audiences like, yet it's been 5 years or thereabout since they've gone on their purchasing spree and the results are abysmal. Even studios that used to be able to make something tolerable have gone to ****, and it's clearly not only because the old talent left. There's something ****** up in the way Microsoft runs their studios that didn't use to be the case 20 years ago.

This, conveniently, brings me to another issue - *****, and specifically ***** in positions of leadership. The Indian elite human capital brings to ruin every company they infest, and it's no clearer to see their ruinous influence than with Microsoft and their subsidiaries.

Naturally, it's not just ***** in the companies, and ***** in the sweatshops that get work outsourced to them, but also the other employees. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it never hurts to reiterate, back in the "good old days", game development was a volatile industry, and the only reason anyone decided to make a game was because they truly wanted to make one, or had a vision for the medium they wanted to share with the public.

And yes, many of those pioneers became obscenely rich, but so many more were worn down by insane crunch and crushed under the weight of their ambition.

Nowadays, game development is a 9-to-5 job. You come to work, clock in, sit at your workstation and then robotically do your tasks. Barring some positions, no real talent or spark is necessary - large parts of making a game are either outsourced, automated or streamlined to the point a well-trained monkey could do them. I've read a few reports of how Ubisoft makes their games, which largely involves placing brightly colored blocks next to each other and connecting them like it's some kind of Incredible Machine parody of a game.

I'm not saying that making games should be deliberately hard or obtuse - in fact, a good tech base and well-made development tools can help to tremendously decrease the time and energy being wasted on wrangling the programs and code to do what you want, which can then be invested into making a better product.

But what we see instead is companies getting rid of the actual talent and replacing them with NPCs(oftentimes in the shape of a ****), that attempt to follow instructions.

There's also the fact that so many modern developers are hyperspecialized, compartmentalized cattle that can only do one thing, and even that inadequately. Meanwhile, old (White) game developers nearly always pulled double, triple and quadruple duty - coding, writing, voice acting, making art.

Old devs came from all kinds of walks of life, and brought with them an eclectic collection of skills, knowledge and life experiences, which ended up shining through the product. The modern gamedev is an urbanite bugman that has spent all his life in and out of leftist "educational" institutions, living in urban bughives, and knows nothing else, turning the gaming industry into an inbred, incestuous den of mediocrity and blandness, or offensively ugly leftist agitprop.

I remember someone looking up the names of the people credited as working Empire: Total War, and it turned out that most of them hadn't worked on a game before, but were largely sourced from the business end of the IT industry. CA pretty much hired a bunch of accountants to make the game.

You can track the degradation of Bethesda as a developer by looking up the number of people that worked on each of their RPGs, and the amount of main and side quests in the games. It used to be that devs could do astronomically more with less. Skyrim was made by 70 people and boasts around 270 quests. Starfield was made by more than 1000 people (counting the outsourcing *****), and has 200 quests, or less, and that's if you're being generous and stretch the definition of what a quest is.

Also, the elephant in the room for everyone here is the woke clowns. It's a truism that the more ******** are involved in a modding project, the less actual work gets done. One could probably crunch out a formula to determine what percentage of the team would need to ***** out for the pace of development to reach 0%. Now apply that to teams numbering in the hundreds, where managers and creative directors spend less time delegating duties and ensuring the whole team is on board with the vision, and more time playing therapist and mediator for the zoo of mental illnesses, sociopathy and narcissism running rampant in the company, and trying to keep the ****** contingent away from the women's bathroom and whatever child is unfortunate enough to have wandered onto the premises.

Is it any wonder that such a toxic human cocktail now requires ten times the budget, ten times the workforce, ten times the time to make a product that is ten times worse than what we had 10 years ago?
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Post by Tweed »

gerey wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:29
Naturally, it's not just ***** in the companies, and ***** in the sweatshops that get work outsourced to them, but also the other employees. I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but it never hurts to reiterate, back in the "good old days", game development was a volatile industry, and the only reason anyone decided to make a game was because they truly wanted to make one, or had a vision for the medium they wanted to share with the public.
I almost said something akin to this. One big different in the past if you look at interviews is that the developer almost always says something along the lines of "We wanted to make the kind of game we wanted to play."
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

But the question is what do those games lack, not what the cause of the cause is
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 16th, 2025, 18:55
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.ht ... sais quoi
je ne sais quoi
A quality or attribute that is difficult to describe or express.
Despite being a fairly low budget title(relatively) Expedition 33 feels like a high budget game. It falls apart at the seams if you know what to look for, but it has high 'production values'(vague term) that you usually only see in games with large budgets and experienced lead developers/producers.
It's not hard to contrast E33 to Avowed, for example. Avowed is an amateur game made by a studio owned by one of the largest corporations in the world after years of development.
AA used to be synonymous with lacking that certain kind of polish.

:pipe-thinking:
What do you think is the cause of this?
Probably helps if you've played E33, but not required.
High fidelity textures, high polygon models, particle effects, and a pass to refine the controls once the game is more than half finished.
Last edited by J1M on October 17th, 2025, 13:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Bertram_Tung »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:34
But the question is what do those games lack, not what the cause of the cause is
They lack the essential ingredient to creating something beatiful and pure. Love.
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Post by Bertram_Tung »

The ***** are also a result of leftism. Well, corporate greed, sure, but it's corporate greed that obfuscates itself and dresses itself up with leftist virtues and is sold to leftist decision makers. Rainbow capitalism, as it were. That's how it gets introduced into the organization, and then once the ***** are in, they multiply quickly because they prioritize hiring more *****.
Last edited by Bertram_Tung on October 17th, 2025, 13:40, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

J1M wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:36
High fidelity textures, high polygon models, particle effects, and a pass to refine the controls once the game is more than half finished.
Avowed has most/all of that tho
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:39
J1M wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:36
High fidelity textures, high polygon models, particle effects, and a pass to refine the controls once the game is more than half finished.
Avowed has most/all of that tho
Haven't played it, but I assume it has overt political messaging that is like someone poking you in the eye at a regular cadence.
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Post by gerey »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:39
Avowed has most/all of that tho
The gameplay is uninspired, the art direction is offensively ugly, the writing is ********.

It's the quintessential slop product made to pad out the Game Pass library. There's nothing there to evoke passion when playing it, the fantasy world is the same generic, rainbow-colored woke dogshit setting that every other modern fantasy RPG is.

I've mentioned it before, but what truly matters when trying to sell a game to an audience is the premise. All other things being equal, a Doom where you slaughter demon hordes as a badass marine is going to resonate far more with people that Chex Quest.

Avowed doesn't have a cool premise or an interesting narrative pitch - it's just a generic game nobody would be able to name outright if you presented them with a screenshot of it a few years down the line.
Last edited by gerey on October 17th, 2025, 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Red7 »

rusty_shackleford wrote: October 16th, 2025, 18:55
https://ahdictionary.com/word/search.ht ... sais quoi
je ne sais quoi
A quality or attribute that is difficult to describe or express.
Despite being a fairly low budget title(relatively) Expedition 33 feels like a high budget game. It falls apart at the seams if you know what to look for, but it has high 'production values'(vague term) that you usually only see in games with large budgets and experienced lead developers/producers.
It's not hard to contrast E33 to Avowed, for example. Avowed is an amateur game made by a studio owned by one of the largest corporations in the world after years of development.
AA used to be synonymous with lacking that certain kind of polish.

:pipe-thinking:
What do you think is the cause of this?
Probably helps if you've played E33, but not required.
i checked jewpedition33 on jewtube in hope for juicy, juicy elf tits. found animated vag corpse/mummy instead


thx :mad:
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Post by Red7 »

gerey wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:54
rusty_shackleford wrote: October 17th, 2025, 13:39
Avowed has most/all of that tho
The gameplay is uninspired, the art direction is offensively ugly, the writing is ********.

It's the quintessential slop product made to pad out the Game Pass library. There's nothing there to evoke passion when playing it, the fantasy world is the same generic, rainbow-colored woke dogshit setting that every other modern fantasy RPG is.

I've mentioned it before, but what truly matters when trying to sell a game to an audience is the premise. All other things being equal, a Doom where you slaughter demon hordes as a badass marine is going to resonate far more with people that Chex Quest.

Avowed doesn't have a cool premise or an interesting narrative pitch - it's just a generic game nobody would be able to name outright if you presented them with a screenshot of it a few years down the line.
yes but u also forgot mention attrocious lack of cleavage
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Post by DemoGraph »

This thread made me watch a LP video of COE33.


I've watched the first 18 minutes of the vid knowing basically nothing about the game. I can say the following.

So, a guy meets a girl. They broke up previously. Now she gas to go on some one-way-off expedition that is basically a death sentence. They're seeing each other for the last time. He's, understandably, pretty nervous. She gives her last goodbyes to everyone, including him. Together they head to a harbor thinking about future they could have had together, the last walk of their common life...
And the first thing that the player can do is platform jump the girl on a pile of boards to pick up some pennies.

Absolutely tone deaf. Whoever designed this is a ****** and should be drown in ****.

The end.
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