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Speculative R&D: Game Controllers

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Post by Statesman »

WhiteShark wrote: October 28th, 2024, 22:57
The price is a problem, for sure. This video talks about its uses and advantages, particularly in regards to FPS games, and he said that using it for movement feels very natural:



Here's his list of pros and cons from the video description:
pinguefy wrote:
good:
it is highly adjustable and has a billion screws on the underside for making it fit your anatomy.
all of the buttons are accessible and you have a ton of binds to work with.
the software is intuitive and allows you to store two profiles on the keypad for quick switching.
the build quality is solid considering it's all plastic
the learning curve is not that steep for how strange the device looks.
there’s some modding potential with their modular-ish design. kovaak 3d printed notches for wavedashing angles LOL. also good for replacement parts.
the azeron uses microswitches, like ones you’d find in a mouse. they are VERY easy to press, but have a bit of pre/post travel.
for things like doom eternal’s dash, it’s freeing to be able to dash at exact angles without requiring mouse movement.
a lot of people have the complaint that an analog stick will never be as fast at changing directions as WASD. it’s true in a literal sense, but in practice, i have never once felt like my dodge was limited by my thumb’s speed and the only game where strafing that fast makes sense is OW. i recently also learned of a feature where you are able to press a button to invert the direction of your stick. as in: hold right, your character moves right. press the bind, you move left. release the bind, you move right. this negates the downside of analog movement and can let you strafe spam similarly to nulls.

bad:
there are a good amount of games that do not support simultaneous input like apex.
this device is very tall. i have a stack of towels i use to elevate my arm, but if i don’t use it, it creates some serious wrist discomfort.
some buttons are easier to reach than others. this is definitely made worse by my small hands, but there are some buttons i have never pressed because i’d have make large movements to reach them. for things you want to be pressing in combat, it’s rough.
my stick performance deteriorated over time quite a lot, it’s noticeably worse than other controllers now. natural for how long it’s been and i think you can replace it fairly easily.
the 180 bind could technically be used for counterstrafing but i can't imagine it being as consistent as keyboard.
certain techs like gdashing in gundam became inconsistent with the azeron, as any stick input while you're meant to have no movement keys pressed would kill the momentum.
That is one soothing review.
At least some of those cons seem easily manageable (adjustable armrest/Cyborg 2 Compact) or game-specific. If I had a 3D Printer, I'd probably try something like this first though: https://www.instructables.com/Azeron-Ga ... -Under-35/
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Post by Rand »

You may as well not bother replying to my posts if it's to argue anything except concrete facts or your personal opinion. I still probably won't see it.
Reject your retarded-wing political programming and learn to think.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
Weird they didn't include something analogous to shift/tab/ctrl.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
oh man, this is painful to use. Might need to think on a setup for a bit, going to take a lot of effort to get used to.
Might end up returning it.

I just have way too much muscle memory from using a keyboard for decades.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on November 21st, 2024, 01:46, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Boontaker »

rusty_shackleford wrote: November 21st, 2024, 01:39
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
oh man, this is painful to use. Might need to think on a setup for a bit, going to take a lot of effort to get used to.
Might end up returning it.

I just have way too much muscle memory from using a keyboard for decades.
How do your wrists feels after extended use? Is the draw for that product supposed to be ergonomic?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Boontaker wrote: November 21st, 2024, 03:30
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 21st, 2024, 01:39
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
oh man, this is painful to use. Might need to think on a setup for a bit, going to take a lot of effort to get used to.
Might end up returning it.

I just have way too much muscle memory from using a keyboard for decades.
How do your wrists feels after extended use? Is the draw for that product supposed to be ergonomic?
Feels fine. Think the draw is, theoretically, it's superior to the keyboard. It just doesn't feel right to me. I'm sure I could get used to it… but why?
Maybe if I played competitive games still.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on November 21st, 2024, 03:48, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: November 21st, 2024, 01:39
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
oh man, this is painful to use. Might need to think on a setup for a bit, going to take a lot of effort to get used to.
Might end up returning it.

I just have way too much muscle memory from using a keyboard for decades.
Getting used to a new control scheme always feels way worse than it really is at first. I've done it a few times and it always ended up feeling like second nature surprisingly quickly despite how horrible it felt at the beginning.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

WhiteShark wrote: November 21st, 2024, 10:48
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 21st, 2024, 01:39
rusty_shackleford wrote: November 20th, 2024, 18:47
first tartarus pro thoughts:
I need to figure out a coherent key layout scheme for this
going to take me time to get used to it
oh man, this is painful to use. Might need to think on a setup for a bit, going to take a lot of effort to get used to.
Might end up returning it.

I just have way too much muscle memory from using a keyboard for decades.
Getting used to a new control scheme always feels way worse than it really is at first. I've done it a few times and it always ended up feeling like second nature surprisingly quickly despite how horrible it felt at the beginning.
I just really see little benefit, tbh. Might be useful if I wasn't already used to & accustom to using my MMO mouse.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

why don't any controllers(with widespread usage) use a trackball instead of one of the thumbsticks?
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Post by 1998 »

rusty_shackleford wrote: May 25th, 2025, 05:59
why don't any controllers(with widespread usage) use a trackball instead of one of the thumbsticks?
Or trackpads. Always hoped for a proper Steam controller v2.
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: May 25th, 2025, 05:59
why don't any controllers(with widespread usage) use a trackball instead of one of the thumbsticks?
How would it reset when you removed your thumb? Or would you need to keep spinning it to keep walking?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

J1M wrote: May 25th, 2025, 21:46
rusty_shackleford wrote: May 25th, 2025, 05:59
why don't any controllers(with widespread usage) use a trackball instead of one of the thumbsticks?
How would it reset when you removed your thumb? Or would you need to keep spinning it to keep walking?
You use the other one for walking
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

rusty_shackleford wrote: May 25th, 2025, 05:59
why don't any controllers(with widespread usage) use a trackball instead of one of the thumbsticks?
Wow, it seems like there aren't even any trackball controllers available? I'd buy one



Something more recent…


Definitely not just for FPS, any game that has camera movement would benefit and it's arguably the biggest drawback of a controller in action games
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

videoframe_1601740.png.webp
Really weird that this isn't a thing, he was nearly matching his mouse performance despite only using it for a brief period. It might even be better than a mouse due to his (quite smart) setup of allowing it to be controlled from the front & back
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Looking for controllers that have a more than standard number of buttons. Especially if it has some kind of buttons on the backside grips('paddles', etc.,)
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Post by Norfleet »

rusty_shackleford wrote: May 31st, 2025, 11:22
Wow, it seems like there aren't even any trackball controllers available? I'd buy one

Who the hell are these controllers even made for, Hindu gods? Are you supposed to have three or four hands to wield that?
rusty_shackleford wrote: May 31st, 2025, 11:22
Something more recent…


Definitely not just for FPS, any game that has camera movement would benefit and it's arguably the biggest drawback of a controller in action games
I have no ******* clue how you're supposed to hold that thing.

If I were going to make a controller, I'd make it with some sort of stick that I could grip and then put the trigger accessible from there so I can wield it like a gun, aiming it naturally the way I would aim a gun.
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 16th, 2025, 20:45
Looking for controllers that have a more than standard number of buttons. Especially if it has some kind of buttons on the backside grips('paddles', etc.,)
https://www.xbox.com/en-CA/accessories/ ... r-series-2
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Post by Statesman »

Norfleet wrote: July 16th, 2025, 21:17
I have no ******* clue how you're supposed to hold that thing.

If I were going to make a controller, I'd make it with some sort of stick that I could grip and then put the trigger accessible from there so I can wield it like a gun, aiming it naturally the way I would aim a gun.
Face button placement looks to be quite unwieldy for anything but FPS (to be fair, general use was not part of the main design concerns). You can see how before and after this:

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 16th, 2025, 20:45
Looking for controllers that have a more than standard number of buttons. Especially if it has some kind of buttons on the backside grips('paddles', etc.,)
The Flydigi Vader 4 has 2 extra face buttons and 4 back buttons. Vader 5 is supposed to have TMR sticks, so I'd wait for that (if you are not in a hurry).
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Post by J1M »

J1M wrote: July 16th, 2025, 21:46
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 16th, 2025, 20:45
Looking for controllers that have a more than standard number of buttons. Especially if it has some kind of buttons on the backside grips('paddles', etc.,)
https://www.xbox.com/en-CA/accessories/ ... r-series-2
Why the long face @rusty_shackleford ? It has paddles, lots of customization, and works with every game that supports an xbox controller. I have one and the only real downside is that it's ~1.5 oz heavier than a standard xbox controller.
Last edited by J1M on July 18th, 2025, 13:56, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

J1M wrote: July 18th, 2025, 13:56
J1M wrote: July 16th, 2025, 21:46
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 16th, 2025, 20:45
Looking for controllers that have a more than standard number of buttons. Especially if it has some kind of buttons on the backside grips('paddles', etc.,)
https://www.xbox.com/en-CA/accessories/ ... r-series-2
Why the long face @rusty_shackleford ? It has paddles, lots of customization, and works with every game that supports an xbox controller. I have one and the only real downside is that it's ~1.5 oz heavier than a standard xbox controller.
I was looking for something with lotsa buttons
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 18th, 2025, 13:56
J1M wrote: July 18th, 2025, 13:56
Why the long face @rusty_shackleford ? It has paddles, lots of customization, and works with every game that supports an xbox controller. I have one and the only real downside is that it's ~1.5 oz heavier than a standard xbox controller.
I was looking for something with lotsa buttons
The software supports input chords, which allow you to have more "buttons" by holding down a "shift" button.
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Post by J1M »

J1M wrote: July 18th, 2025, 14:04
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 18th, 2025, 13:56
J1M wrote: July 18th, 2025, 13:56


Why the long face @rusty_shackleford ? It has paddles, lots of customization, and works with every game that supports an xbox controller. I have one and the only real downside is that it's ~1.5 oz heavier than a standard xbox controller.
I was looking for something with lotsa buttons
The software supports input chords, which allow you to have more "buttons" by holding down a "shift" button.
Forgot to link to a random blog about it https://expertbeacon.com/how-do-you-use ... x-elite-2/