How many gear slots should an RPG have?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Should a game have no gear to equip whatsoever beyond cosmetics? One single slot for your weapon type or a relic that shifts your stats around or grants an effect? Two slots for a weapon and a full outfit set? Four for a weapon + helmet + chest + legs? 8 slots? 16? 30+ with layers? What about managing all of the equipment slots for your party members or your warbands?

[rusty_shackleford]

nu-RPGs have way too little.

[Tadeusz]

I like managing gear if a game has a meaningful distinction between different pieces in one slot to suit different play styles. I think helmet + upper body + lower body + boots + gloves + main hand + secondary hand + amulet + 2 ring slots is enough though some other slots may be possible like cloaks or undergarment.

[logincrash]

Morrowind has an awesome system where you can layer clothing and armor. You could also do different gloves and pauldrons, so you could be a kewl guy with one armoured arm. You could wear a breastplate with a shirt and pants with greaves on top and wear nice robes over the whole thing. You also had jewelry slots for rings and amulets.
So, that's at least ten slots.

[TKVNC]

At least 10, closer towards 20, I suspect if practical / possible.

Clothing: shoes, pants, shirt, and cloak - then jewellery; 2 rings, 1 necklace, 2 amulets

Armour: greaves / sabatons, cuisses / chausses, breastplate / cuirass, pauldrons / spaulders, rerebrace, gauntlets, helmet

So that's 16 as possible equipment pieces; I don't think clothes and armour should be mutually exclusive.

Oh, I forgot belts, so 17.

[Tadeusz]

So, that's at least ten slots.

Morrowind has 18 slots which is quite a lot:

In Morrowind, your equipment set could consist of a belt, boots, a cuirass, two gloves, greaves, a helmet, two pauldrons, a necklace, pants, two rings, a robe, a shirt, a skirt, and two held items. This gives you a total of eighteen item slots.

[Vergil]

Morrowind is fine I think.

[rusty_shackleford]

It should be as many as would make sense for the purposes of immershun.
Games like Fallout should allow me to wander around with two different gloves on, a shoe on only one foot and a sock on the other while wearing only underwear

[gerey]

I am torn on the issue. On the one hand I think Morrowind goes too far, you don't really need a separate slot for the left and right glove or shoe, it adds nothing to the gameplay beyond pointless busywork.

On the other hand a game like Exanima mostly gets it right. You can put on different clothing and armor items, in layers, and each clothing item is usually best against a different type of damage. Putting on a gambeson will help protect you against blunt attacks, but you will still need chainmail or plate on top to protect against slashing and/or piercing attacks. It's preferable to wear both chainmail and plate to ensure gaps are also covered. Ideally, such a system would also simulate how loud the player is depending on what he's wearing, as well as increased fatigue from all the layers preventing the body from sweating heat out.

Looking at it differently, FROM games separate arms, chest, legs and head because the player needs to be able to unequip different pieces in case they want to stop fatrolling.

Ultimately I think head, chest, arm, legs, amulet and two ring slots are more than enough, but only if the arm/leg clothing items actually do something beyond making the defense stats go up. If they only do that you might as well just bundle them up in a set along with the chest piece.

[rusty_shackleford]

you don't really need a separate slot for the left and right glove or shoe, it adds nothing to the gameplay beyond pointless busywork.

It makes sense in a setting where it would be common to not have two of the same kind of shoes, like post-apoc.

[Tadeusz]

Are there any games that have even more slots than Morrowind? Left/right sock, left/right shoelace, spur, layered shirts and so on?

[rusty_shackleford]

Are there any games that have even more slots than Morrowind? Left/right sock, left/right shoelace, spur, layered shirts and so on?

Definitely some roguelikes that I can't think of right now.

[rusty_shackleford]

Having more slots allows for more granular loot distribution. A major issue in every piranha bytes game is you find very little equipment, and often the armor is part of the plot itself.
When I was playing ELEX 2, I found a legendary(? named?) weapon and had near zero reason to actually explore because it was just more food to find, they had no actual rewards to distribute.

[gerey]

It makes sense in a setting where it would be common to not have two of the same kind of shoes, like post-apoc.

Sure, but only if it impacts gameplay.

NEO Scavenger is a good example, I think. It has separate glove/shoe slots, walking barefoot is dangerous, sometimes you have two left shoes and wearing the wrong shone on the wrong foot decreases your stats etc.

[rusty_shackleford]

It makes sense in a setting where it would be common to not have two of the same kind of shoes, like post-apoc.

Sure, but only if it impacts gameplay.

NEO Scavenger is a good example, I think. It has separate glove/shoe slots, walking barefoot is dangerous, sometimes you have two left shoes and wearing the wrong shone on the wrong foot decreases your stats etc.

Yes, NEO Scavenger is what I had in mind and I think the only game that gets it right. Merely having the correct clothing should be an issue in a post-apoc RPG.

[Vergil]

I should be allowed to wear robes over my armor

[Tadeusz]

Thinking of slots, gear also can have its own slots for some enchantments of different forms. If these count then a game can easily have 30+ slots.

[logincrash]

I am torn on the issue. On the one hand I think Morrowind goes too far, you don't really need a separate slot for the left and right glove or shoe, it adds nothing to the gameplay beyond pointless busywork.

Not when it visibly changes your player model. Looking cool is important too. Now, if your player model can never be seen (first person only games or isometric games with tiny PC models), then having fewer slots (head, top, bottom, misc.) is fine.

[TKVNC]

It makes sense in a setting where it would be common to not have two of the same kind of shoes, like post-apoc.

Sure, but only if it impacts gameplay.

NEO Scavenger is a good example, I think. It has separate glove/shoe slots, walking barefoot is dangerous, sometimes you have two left shoes and wearing the wrong shone on the wrong foot decreases your stats etc.

Zomboid does a pretty good job of this.

[Element]

I am torn on the issue. On the one hand I think Morrowind goes too far, you don't really need a separate slot for the left and right glove or shoe, it adds nothing to the gameplay beyond pointless busywork.

Not when it visibly changes your player model. Looking cool is important too.

It can also play a role in quest design eg. you find a dead knight with cool armour but one arm has been ripped off by a beast so you only have the one gauntlet. Gotta kill the beast to cut out the other.

[logincrash]

I am torn on the issue. On the one hand I think Morrowind goes too far, you don't really need a separate slot for the left and right glove or shoe, it adds nothing to the gameplay beyond pointless busywork.

Not when it visibly changes your player model. Looking cool is important too.

It can also play a role in quest design eg. you find a dead knight with cool armour but one arm has been ripped off by a beast so you only have the one gauntlet. Gotta kill the beast to cut out the other.

Or a weapon is too dangerous to wield without magic protection, so you have to put on a special glove/gauntlet.

[Vaako]

Dark Age of Camelot also has quite a few. 2 Bracers, 2 Rings, belt, jewel, cloak, necklace, boots, gloves, greaves, helmet, sleeves, torso, myth slot, weaponslots are: 1h, offhand, 2hand slot, ranged. And then you have also crafting to fix resist/state holes. You can probably plan for hours there to get a good item combination template. Its a science in itself there I havent seen in any other game. And alone the zenkcraft app on steam to build templates there I have almost 300hours spend there. And thats just for templates on the eden freeshard from the last 1-2 years.

[logincrash]

Dark Age of Camelot

Looked up screenshots of the game.

daoc.jpg

KINO

[1998]

If the itemization is ****, it doesn't really matter. If it's good, probably at least 8-10.

[Vergil]

I think 10-20 was way too high of a range on the poll by the way.

[J1M]

Marginal upgrades are a pet peeve of mine. I would much rather have fewer upgrades that are significantly more of a jump in power.

Example: Zelda (NES) would not be a better game if there were a dozen more swords added to it that did 1.0x, 1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x, 1.4x, etc damage. There are two upgrades to the sword in that game, and they feel great because the power curve is 1.0x, 2.0x, 4.0x damage.

I think it is beyond goofy to be equipping a different shoulder armor and arm armor and bracer armor and chest armor. The most effective armor would be integrated pieces designed to fit and work together.

I also prefer when the slot in question is related to the enhancement, such as boots affecting movement speed and gloves affecting attack accuracy. The other way around means those aren't really boots or gloves, just slot 1 and 2.

TLDR: We need less items than games currently have, they should all be unique, and they should be rewarded for completion of milestones, not drop from random enemies. I'm open to a larger number of equipment slots if the previous statement is true, but few designers have that level of discipline.

[Stack of Turtles]

I think 10-20 was way too high of a range on the poll by the way.

yeah because the right answer's 0

[Vergil]

Marginal upgrades are a pet peeve of mine. I would much rather have fewer upgrades that are significantly more of a jump in power.

Example: Zelda (NES) would not be a better game if there were a dozen more swords added to it that did 1.0x, 1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x, 1.4x, etc damage. There are two upgrades to the sword in that game, and they feel great because the power curve is 1.0x, 2.0x, 4.0x damage.

I think it is beyond goofy to be equipping a different shoulder armor and arm armor and bracer armor and chest armor. The most effective armor would be integrated pieces designed to fit and work together.

I also prefer when the slot in question is related to the enhancement, such as boots affecting movement speed and gloves affecting attack accuracy. The other way around means those aren't really boots or gloves, just slot 1 and 2.

TLDR: We need less items than games currently have, they should all be unique, and they should be rewarded for completion of milestones, not drop from random enemies. I'm open to a larger number of equipment slots if the previous statement is true, but few designers have that level of discipline.

Toddler

[TKVNC]

Marginal upgrades are a pet peeve of mine. I would much rather have fewer upgrades that are significantly more of a jump in power.

Example: Zelda (NES) would not be a better game if there were a dozen more swords added to it that did 1.0x, 1.1x, 1.2x, 1.3x, 1.4x, etc damage. There are two upgrades to the sword in that game, and they feel great because the power curve is 1.0x, 2.0x, 4.0x damage.

I think it is beyond goofy to be equipping a different shoulder armor and arm armor and bracer armor and chest armor. The most effective armor would be integrated pieces designed to fit and work together.

I also prefer when the slot in question is related to the enhancement, such as boots affecting movement speed and gloves affecting attack accuracy. The other way around means those aren't really boots or gloves, just slot 1 and 2.

TLDR: We need less items than games currently have, they should all be unique, and they should be rewarded for completion of milestones, not drop from random enemies. I'm open to a larger number of equipment slots if the previous statement is true, but few designers have that level of discipline.

It's not really goofy, I mean, in the real world barely anyone had matching equipment in a pre-industrial society; and in a post-apocalyptic world, I don't expect you'll have matching anything.

With that in mind, more items to swap between is nice, marginal improvements, and sidegrades are good - even if you -never- use them, they can improve immersion significantly.

[Stack of Turtles]

A really immersive sim shouldn't need gear slots. Why shouldn't I be able to wear socks on my hands if I want? Or layer on 10 different shirts to get through a cold area without special equipment?

Right now I'm imagining something like a paper-doll-styled drag-and-drop interface, but there's a lot of room for innovation once you've opened up the box.