Warhammer - The Old World thread

[WaterMage]

I'm copying this thread ( viewtopic.php?t=2848-warhammer-40-000-t ... mer thread )

But focused on Warhammer The old world.

I HEREBY CLAIM THIS PART OF THE HQ IN THE NAME OF SIGMAR!!
Here you can talk about everything warhammer, be it
1) Lore
2) Miniatures
3) Matches
4) Roleplays
5) Painting
6) Videogames

[SniperChris]

Must Read Books for understanding the vibe:
1. The first six Gotrek & Felix books
2. Drachenfels
3. Beasts in Velvet
4. The Brunner the Bounty Hunter Series

Any others?

[Kalarion]

The Malus Darkblade trilogy, perhaps?

[WaterMage]

This video is everything which you need to know about Warhammer in 8m

[WaterMage]

I was trying to figure out how Warhammer Spells would be devastating IRL.

A standard lightning bolt in lore is described to be able to melt armor and insta kill a man. So I asume like our IRL lightning. Energy: ~1 to 10 billion joules (1–10 GJ). Voltage: ~100 million volts. Current: ~30,000 amps
Now, the Urannon`s Thunderbolt, to be able to OHK a chaos orc, I would put it in ~50 GJ of energy

Now, Comet of Casandora. It summons a comet.
KE = 1/2 * (mv^2)
5,000 kg (about the weight of a large truck)
Entry speed = ~15,000 m/s (low end for meteors)
KE = 1/2 * ( ×5,000×(15,000) ^ 2)
=562.5 billion joules

That’s the energy of a small tactical nuclear weapon, minus the radiation.

Also imagine how powerful Celestial Magic could be with preparation. For eg, imagine that I'm a Celestial Hedge Wizard hired to protect a Tilean coastal siege from a Druchii raid. I could :
1 - Put a lot of silver or other conductive material "cables" around the shore.(copper or maybe iron)
2 - Pick some powder barrel. Tie it with a lot of alcohol pure, oil and some scrap metal, maybe some rocks and wood too.
3 - Bury them but just a bit over the ground

When they come, I cast Lightning bolt and boom. The electricity would flow towards the shore and hit everyone. Essentially making the entire enemy army being hit by fire, high speed rocks, metal and shrapnel, explosions. I would essentially transform them into fireworks with a mere lightning bolt.

[UltraFan123]

One thing that this setting has that I believe the 40k one should've had but doesn't was how the clerics of this Fantasy setting could use supernatural prayers, while the Ministorum Priests of 40k could never summon the divine power of the Emperor regardless of how devoted they were.

There were exceptions obviously, like the Sororitas and the occasional divine champion of the Black Templars, but for the most part, the only users of supernatural power of the Imperium are sanctioned psykers.

I think it ultimately boiled down to how 40k was supposed to be more sci-fi than fantasy.

[Manny V]

One thing that this setting has that I believe the 40k one should've had but doesn't was how the clerics of this Fantasy setting could use supernatural prayers, while the Ministorum Priests of 40k could never summon the divine power of the Emperor regardless of how devoted they were.

There were exceptions obviously, like the Sororitas and the occasional divine champion of the Black Templars, but for the most part, the only users of supernatural power of the Imperium are sanctioned psykers.

I think it ultimately boiled down to how 40k was supposed to be more sci-fi than fantasy.

so what you're saying is that the Imperium in 40k is fake and gay, but faith in Sigmar is real and based?

[UltraFan123]

One thing that this setting has that I believe the 40k one should've had but doesn't was how the clerics of this Fantasy setting could use supernatural prayers, while the Ministorum Priests of 40k could never summon the divine power of the Emperor regardless of how devoted they were.

There were exceptions obviously, like the Sororitas and the occasional divine champion of the Black Templars, but for the most part, the only users of supernatural power of the Imperium are sanctioned psykers.

I think it ultimately boiled down to how 40k was supposed to be more sci-fi than fantasy.

so what you're saying is that the Imperium in 40k is fake and gay, but faith in Sigmar is real and based?

I really like how the 40k Imperium is a monotheistic human empire, there are relatively little of those in fictional settings. But I would've definitely like it even more if the clergy of the Imperium were able to use divine prayers to summon holy fire and burn heretics with it, if anything to save promethium. kek

Also, it would've created a nice in-setting divide between how the "magic" that comes from God/The Emperor is good while magic that doesn't comes from The Emperor is always "evil witchcraft".

[UltraFan123]

And to make a post exclusively about the Warhammer Fantasy setting, I wanna say that the in-setting steam tanks are pretty cool.

It's rare to see a fantasy setting that goes balls-deep with the use of gunpowder and steam engines.

Most fantasy settings that I'm aware of never even dare to show stuff like hand canons, and if they do touch firearms in any way, they make up some ******** excuse as for why nobody can nor wants to mass produce them.

So Warhammer Fantasy is refreshing in that particular regard.

[WaterMage]

Yep. Warhammer fantasy is like "renascence fantasy" with some steampunkery in the mix, instead of the typical medieval fantasy. Except Bretonnia.

I also like how mages, mainly human ones are specialized and risky. Also like the firearms and their creatures like Demigryphs. I wish that I could ride one while I throw thunderbolts.


Also love some enemies like Skaven being rats bringing plague.

[Manny V]

one thing neat about the steam tanks is how they're based off Da Vinci's prototype tanks, and the methods to make them are lost, so there's only a few of them remaining in lore, making them all the more precious for the Empire

[WaterMage]

Correct me if I'm wrong but manlets Dwarfs can't make more Rune Golems too.

About tanks

[DrSneed]

love me ogres

[Manny V]

love me ogres

simple az

[WaterMage]

About magic, I'm new to warhammer lore. Is a fair assessment that in therms of "war magic", Lore of Fire has more large destruction potential but Lore of Heavens, a more "direct" destruction potential? Example, to destroy a lot of skeletons, a Bright Wizard would be better. To destroy a single Hellcannon, a Celestial Wizard would be better?

Eg -
Lore of Fire : Best for: Mass infantry, undead hordes, swarms, regenerative foes
Lore of Heavens : Best for: Single hard targets, elite units, siege engines, beasts

For eg, if your city is under siege and a lot of undead outside, Lore of Fire is better. If Chaos Dwarfs are deploying a few Hellcannons, Lore of Heavens is better.

[Manny V]

About magic, I'm new to warhammer lore. Is a fair assessment that in therms of "war magic", Lore of Fire has more large destruction potential but Lore of Heavens, a more "direct" destruction potential? Example, to destroy a lot of skeletons, a Bright Wizard would be better. To destroy a single Hellcannon, a Celestial Wizard would be better?

Eg -
Lore of Fire : Best for: Mass infantry, undead hordes, swarms, regenerative foes
Lore of Heavens : Best for: Single hard targets, elite units, siege engines, beasts

For eg, if your city is under siege and a lot of undead outside, Lore of Fire is better. If Chaos Dwarfs are deploying a few Hellcannons, Lore of Heavens is better.

there's definitely a bit of specialty to the spell schools, even if in lore they end up rounding out a bit

as far as i'm aware in tabletop, and definitely in Total War Warhammer, each spell school excels in different roles.

So yeah, Lore of Fire is good for wiping out large masses of infantry, with only a couple of buffing spells and not really any good spells for targeting single entities, while Lore of Heavens, although still having some solid aoe spells, has one that's particularly good for targeting artillery (Urannon's Thunderbolt).

Lore of Death is handy for killing single targets or smaller numbers of elite units, as well as buffing and debuffing, Lore of Life is good for healing (as you'd expect) Dhar is mostly aggressive all around, etc

[WaterMage]

Not exactly only for old world lore, but between the forms of immortality in the Warhammer verse, aka becoming a Stormcast, a Daemon Prince, a Vampire Lord, or a Liche, which offers the highest power boost? Pick Balthasar Gelt. Would he become stronger if he becomes a Stormcast, a vampire lord, a Daemon prince or a Liche?

[WaterMage]

One thing that I don't like in video games. Why do so many Warhammer video game adaptations restrict you to Lore of Fire? Vermintide 1/2, Warhammer Online Age of Reckoning. Sure, it is the most destructive lore, but it is not as if the Comet of Casandora or the Purple Sun of Xereus (video below from the old realms mod for Bannerlord) are not powerful. The mod doesn't have Lore of Death yet but will get in next update.

https://www.moddb.com/media/iframe/2845019

Other lores can be quite deadly. I personally like when spells have utility outside of combat. Weather spells and divination spells can be quite powerful not only in the battlefield but also in agriculture, in commerce, navigation and in industries. I like when magic can make me rich and allow me to destroy a Hellcannon by throwing a thunderbolt more than combat only magic. This is why I personally don't like Dark Elf Dark Magic, sure, is very powerful but is WORTHLESS outside of combat. Necromancy can be used for undead laborers, can be used to have the perfect guards, the perfect slaves, can be used to extend someone life.

I really wish that the next Warhammer games, put AT LEAST Azyr and Ulgu. Too much games limits you to Aqshy.

[WaterMage]

Other thing. I wish that more fantasy RPGs innovated with factions like Skaven

[WaterMage]

One question to warhammer fans here. There is any advantage of human biology over elf biology? Elves have better magical aptitude, live longer, resist more corruption, are more resistant against diseases, they are as strong as humans and much more dexterous. I'm not talking about cultural advantages, eg - humans being more prone to innovation.

Other question about half elves, they are completely ruled out or they exist in warhammer? I saw some people saying that they are like Mul in D&D, ie - almost all pregnancies end up in miscarriage, and if a half elf is born, he will be sterile, so no D&D style half elves and unique half elf cultures like Bretons in The Elder Scrolls.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

One question to warhammer fans here. There is any advantage of human biology over elf biology? Elves have better magical aptitude, live longer, resist more corruption, are more resistant against diseases, they are as strong as humans and much more dexterous. I'm not talking about cultural advantages, eg - humans being more prone to innovation.

There’s none. GW Just like putting them on the back foot because of plot contrivances.

[Reichspepe]

@WaterMage No advantages I know of. And I'm fairly certain half-elves don't exist, which I like. An elf would also never in their wildest dreams have a child with a human. That would be like us having a kid with apes, completely disgusting and out of the question for them.

[WaterMage]

An elf would also never in their wildest dreams have a child with a human.

Not all pregnancies are consensual. If a Druchii tries to raid a place, are defeated, I could imagine a guy like Jaffar paying a huge fortune for a Druchii sorceress slave to give him knowledge and serve him in other ways. Her will is irrelevant.

If he spends decades using her, could they have a child?

There none. GW Just like putting them on the back foot because of plot contrivances.

So, is human advantage is only numbers?

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

There none. GW Just like putting them on the back foot because of plot contrivances.

So, is human advantage is only numbers?

Pretty much.

[WaterMage]

Pretty much.

So, humans are just a "lesser race" and elves are the master race

_______________

Other thing about half elves.

Even if they could exist, lets say that Jaffar forces himself upon a captive Druchii sorceress, even if she becomes pregnant, it will probably end up in miscarriage, if not, she will probably try to abort in the first opportunity. I can't imagine a Druchii being willing to give birth to a human child.

[UltraFan123]

Other thing. I wish that more fantasy RPGs innovated with factions like Skaven

I wish modern fantasy settings stopped depicting ratfolks as sanitized pet house mice, like - unsurprisingly - Pathfinder and Starfinder do.

Sapient rats should be filthy disease carries that put Nurglelites to shame, greedy and selfish to their core. If a game designer wants cute rodent races they can always make hamstermen or capybaramen.

[WaterMage]

I also like Warhammer, about humans getting the short end of the stick, so to speak. In other settings, humans have the advantage. In D&D, humans are much more powerful than anything else; the most powerful casters, like Elminster and Karsus, are all humans. Elves in earlier editions were limited to 12th level. In The Witcher, elves also are much weaker and more primitive, as well as in Dragon Age. But in Warhammer, humans are the weaker ones.

I, who sperg a lot about Celestial Magic in Warhammer, if I become a Celestial Wizard, could practice and study every day, but even if I become as powerful as Balthasar Gelt, a mage like Teclis or Malekith would still be vastly superior to me. An Empire Greatsword elite infantryman can work out every day and be among the strongest humans ever. Still a weakling compared to an orc. An engineer could work every day; its firearms and cannons are still centuries behind dwarves. They have percussion cap mechanisms; the empire has only matchlocks and flintlocks Dwarf firearms are deadlier, more reliable, and more accurate than human firearms. The empire lost how to make stuff like steam tanks. Meanwhile, Dwarfs have Gyrocopters with gatling guns.

Warhammer also has a lot of interesting creatures, like demigryphs. I would love to ride one.

[DemoGraph]

Any others?

I've read "The Swords of Empire" (two books) and "Reiksguard".
Swords were sometimes laughable (plot holes), but focus on Chaos corruption and set the tone for the central conflict of the setting well.
Reiksguard is mostly about mundane threats and mundane armies. I thought that it is better written and has a plot akin to classical coming-of-age stories.

I also read Drachenfels and some short stories. I thought they were kinda naive. Drachenfels has some facepalm-inducing plot holes.

[WaterMage]

Hot take - Bretonnia is only liked by diehard tradcucks. Tilea is where freedom reigns.

A question. For a human Necromancer, there is the ascension into a vampire via blood kiss. For a human chaos casters, daemon princehood. There is ANY path of ascention for a "lawful" human mage? Eg - Could pre end times, a Celestial Wizard "fuse" with Azyr, essentially becoming a "Azyr prince", not talking about end times incarnate. I'm talking about old world.
EDIT : And not full incarnate. Think in a "lesser incarnate".

Is sigmar the unique human who broke human limitations without corruption?

[Finarfin]

Sounds like some brown mans cope. Anyone who dislikes bretonnia is hard gay