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How much are live service games bleeding people dry?

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How much are live service games bleeding people dry?

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Dispiriting to hear. Have there been any recent studies on how entertainment (not just "live service" games) have been affecting people in the West?

https://archive.fo/30OBk
Nearly One in Five Young Japanese Adults Face Financial Hardship from Gacha Game Spending

...

Key Findings from the 2025 Survey
  • 18.8% of young adults reported experiencing financial strain due to excessive in-game spending.
  • 23.9% of respondents expressed regret over their gaming-related purchases.
  • 17.9% of all participants said they were willing to pay for competitive advantages in-game. Among men, this figure rose to 23.8%, up significantly from 16.2% in 2024.
  • 20.8% felt they couldn’t enjoy games without spending, an increase of 2.7 percentage points from the previous year.
  • While more people are spending on gacha games overall, the average monthly spend has dropped from 5,138 yen in 2024 to 4,247 yen in 2025—a 17.3% decrease.
...


Men Lead in Spending, But Female Engagement Rising

The data indicates that male gamers are still more likely to engage in and justify in-game purchases. However, the gap between genders is narrowing. For instance, 18.4% of women reported they couldn’t enjoy games without spending—an increase of 2.6% compared to 2024. The corresponding figure for men also rose by 2.8%.

These increases reflect a broader normalization of microtransactions in mobile and online gaming among both genders.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on May 15th, 2025, 20:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

What's the % for south korea and hong kong?
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Post by J1M »

Hilarious and embarrassing for the land of the rising sun.
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Post by Irenaeus »

This gacha **** truly is a gold mine for developers.
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Post by Fox1 »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: May 15th, 2025, 20:49
Dispiriting to hear. Have there been any recent studies on how entertainment (not just "live service" games) have been affecting people in the West?

https://archive.fo/30OBk
Nearly One in Five Young Japanese Adults Face Financial Hardship from Gacha Game Spending

...

Key Findings from the 2025 Survey
  • 18.8% of young adults reported experiencing financial strain due to excessive in-game spending.
  • 23.9% of respondents expressed regret over their gaming-related purchases.
  • 17.9% of all participants said they were willing to pay for competitive advantages in-game. Among men, this figure rose to 23.8%, up significantly from 16.2% in 2024.
  • 20.8% felt they couldn’t enjoy games without spending, an increase of 2.7 percentage points from the previous year.
  • While more people are spending on gacha games overall, the average monthly spend has dropped from 5,138 yen in 2024 to 4,247 yen in 2025—a 17.3% decrease.
...


Men Lead in Spending, But Female Engagement Rising

The data indicates that male gamers are still more likely to engage in and justify in-game purchases. However, the gap between genders is narrowing. For instance, 18.4% of women reported they couldn’t enjoy games without spending—an increase of 2.6% compared to 2024. The corresponding figure for men also rose by 2.8%.

These increases reflect a broader normalization of microtransactions in mobile and online gaming among both genders.
It honestly surprises me that anyone spends a dime for these **** games, I'll never understand it. Perhaps a gambling addiction?
Last edited by Fox1 on May 15th, 2025, 21:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SoLong »

Fox1 wrote: May 15th, 2025, 21:40
It honestly surprises me that anyone spends a dime for these **** games, I'll never understand it. Perhaps a gambling addiction?
The game itself is free and the cheapest things you can buy are generally cheaper than monthly subscriptions in pay games. For example, a WoW subscription is more than twice as expensive than a monthly pass in most gacha games I've seen, and you can still play the game if you let the monthly pass lapse.

The plan from dev's viewpoint is that the monthly pass forces players to log in every day if they want to get the full value, so that's more engagement. Also, while the monthly pass is generally the cheapest way to get currency (outside of the free stuff the game and events gives you), they calculate that players will want enough units/weapons/whatever beyond what the steady trickle gives them, so they'll spend money on packs.

The best way to counter such tactics is, in my experience, to set yourself a budget (in my case it's a yearly gaming budget) and actually stick to it.

The last part is the problem since a significant number of people nowadays don't have any impulse control or are able to delay gratification, which is how they get these poor fuckers.

Personally, I believe that gacha games should fall under the gambling umbrella. I don't think they're as destructive as actual gambling dens, but they don't belong in the hands of children.
Last edited by SoLong on May 16th, 2025, 17:18, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

We found one!
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Post by SoLong »

You found...what?
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Fox1 wrote: May 15th, 2025, 21:40
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: May 15th, 2025, 20:49
Dispiriting to hear. Have there been any recent studies on how entertainment (not just "live service" games) have been affecting people in the West?

https://archive.fo/30OBk
Nearly One in Five Young Japanese Adults Face Financial Hardship from Gacha Game Spending

...

Key Findings from the 2025 Survey
  • 18.8% of young adults reported experiencing financial strain due to excessive in-game spending.
  • 23.9% of respondents expressed regret over their gaming-related purchases.
  • 17.9% of all participants said they were willing to pay for competitive advantages in-game. Among men, this figure rose to 23.8%, up significantly from 16.2% in 2024.
  • 20.8% felt they couldn’t enjoy games without spending, an increase of 2.7 percentage points from the previous year.
  • While more people are spending on gacha games overall, the average monthly spend has dropped from 5,138 yen in 2024 to 4,247 yen in 2025—a 17.3% decrease.
...


Men Lead in Spending, But Female Engagement Rising

The data indicates that male gamers are still more likely to engage in and justify in-game purchases. However, the gap between genders is narrowing. For instance, 18.4% of women reported they couldn’t enjoy games without spending—an increase of 2.6% compared to 2024. The corresponding figure for men also rose by 2.8%.

These increases reflect a broader normalization of microtransactions in mobile and online gaming among both genders.
It honestly surprises me that anyone spends a dime for these **** games, I'll never understand it. Perhaps a gambling addiction?
First, in a lot of these gacha games there is a strong mechanical incentive to pay to continue progressing at "endgame". Once you beat the story but still want to continue playing, the only real thing left to do is the optional hard content like raids in GBF or the Abyss in Genshin or the Tower in WuWa. The difficulty of this content scales up to absurd degrees. Eventually you reach a point where to continue progressing here, you need to use certain meta compos or the most powerful characters. There tend to be a large gap in power between a few characters versus the rest of the cast. As the years go on, more and more characters release and more powerful or useful characters wind up being released, able to push further into this hard content than the earlier characters did. So to keep pushing you have to pay.

The second issue is that even if you are not a meta or endgame slave and just want a character for how they look, often times you have an extremely limited window of opportunity to buy that character. For example, in Genshin Impact, the character Shenhe was last available for purchase over two years ago. So if you browse through the list of playable characters and see her and want her, but you weren't playing at that time and didn't buy her, then **** you. So you are strongly incentivized to grab whatever character vaguely appeals to you for fear you won't be able to get them again. Non-gacha games like WoW and GW2 pull this awful stunt too with their cash shop items which they make available for a "limited time" and then "vault" them for several months or years. Actually this goes back as far as Disney's on VHS with their "vault".

The third issue is that once the gacha has successfully pressured you into wanting to buy a character, the cost is deceptively expensive. As with all of these live service games, they have you convert USD into some fake currency where the numbers don't line up exactly (ie $1 = 1 gem, but instead 1 USD = 60 primogems) so as to obfuscate the true costs. And then you also have the gacha system, where instead of buying characters at a set price like $5, you instead have a chance to get that character each time you pay. Famously there was a guy in Japan who spent $6,000 pulling for his monkey girl waifu Andira only to never get her. That led to the implementation of the pity mechanic, where if you pull enough times you will be able to get that character, but has since then been complicated by the 50/50 pity system so now you may have to reach pity twice to get the character you want. So to get a 5-star Genshin character, if you win the 50/50 gamble you only have to pay $225 USD max. If you don't get the character you want then you have to hit pity a second time which means that one character costs $450 to get.
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Post by dagal »

Paying actual money for a service that basically amounts to a couple of pictures on a screen is peak degeneracy. You may as well do hard drugs instead.
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Post by Stack of Turtles »

Gacha is based because Asians shouldn't have money.
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Post by Vaako »

Learned laziness helps there, if you too lazy to get a creditcard or crypto you can only do bank transfers, which disqualifies a lot of games these days and for the rest you can sail the seas or wait a few years or watch a lets play. Well there is still paypall but they also have issues.
Last edited by Vaako on May 16th, 2025, 00:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tinky Winky »

Irenaeus wrote: May 15th, 2025, 21:22
This gacha **** truly is a gold mine for developers.
Hasn't been true for years. The gacha market is pretty dead outside the top dogs, since only the top 0.01% of all waifus/husbandos have any recognition. ****** seem to have given up on developing gachas and go back making ****** mobile mmo.
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Tinky Winky wrote: May 16th, 2025, 01:14
****** seem to have given up on developing gachas and go back making ****** mobile mmo.
Two more were just announced yesterday, and that is on top of the long list of 3D Chinese gachas that have yet to release yet:

Out now:
  • Genshin Impact
  • Honkai: Star Rail
  • Infinity Nikki
  • Tower of Fantasy
  • Wuthering Waves
  • Zenless Zone Zero
Coming soon:
  • ANANTA
  • Arknights: Endfield
  • Azur Promilia
  • Ballad of Antara
  • Chasing Kaleidorider
  • Crystal of Atlan
  • Duet Night Abyss
  • Floatopia
  • Honkai: Nexus Anima
  • Light of Motiram
  • MONGIL: STAR DIVE
  • Neverness to Everness
  • The Seven Deadly Sins: Origin
  • Tianzi 76
  • Unending Dawn
  • Silver Palace (announced yesterday)
  • Duet Night Abyss (announced yesterday)
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

CHYNA tried to ban peasantry by outlawing consoles. This was a mistake on their part for thinking peasantry is learned rather than innate, a classic communist error. It caused all their console peasants to instead play phone games instead of manly corridor shooters. Now they have a country of homosexual phone game players.
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Post by Tinky Winky »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: May 16th, 2025, 01:32
Tinky Winky wrote: May 16th, 2025, 01:14
****** seem to have given up on developing gachas and go back making ****** mobile mmo.
Two more were just announced yesterday, and that is on top of the long list of 3D Chinese gachas that have yet to release yet:

Out now:
  • Genshin Impact
  • Honkai: Star Rail
  • Infinity Nikki
  • Tower of Fantasy
  • Wuthering Waves
  • Zenless Zone Zero
Coming soon:
  • ANANTA
  • Arknights: Endfield
  • Azur Promilia
  • Ballad of Antara
  • Chasing Kaleidorider
  • Crystal of Atlan
  • Duet Night Abyss
  • Floatopia
  • Honkai: Nexus Anima
  • Light of Motiram
  • MONGIL: STAR DIVE
  • Neverness to Everness
  • The Seven Deadly Sins: Origin
  • Tianzi 76
  • Unending Dawn
  • Silver Palace (announced yesterday)
  • Duet Night Abyss (announced yesterday)
Go search for the topic in Chinese and they pretty much all agree that the whole gacha **** is oversaturated and on decline now. I'm not going to link any article here since I'm likely to be the only one here who can read the ***** language, but trust me.
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Post by Tinky Winky »

rusty_shackleford wrote: May 16th, 2025, 01:34
CHYNA tried to ban peasantry by outlawing consoles. This was a mistake on their part for thinking peasantry is learned rather than innate, a classic communist error. It caused all their console peasants to instead play phone games instead of manly corridor shooters. Now they have a country of homosexual phone game players.
****** did actually made a few patriotic shooters but they all failed in favor of feminine slops. I think it's safe to claim that ****** are genetically feminine like poojeets, your average chinaman looks exactly like the worst of western soyboys except for a even higher bodyfat, and they all tend to play as w*men in games that allow you to chose.
► NSFW : Subhuman chinksects
Last edited by Tinky Winky on May 16th, 2025, 02:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by J1M »

Also, I don't really have any reason to believe this study more than any other video game study, which we happen to know are all crap.
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Post by Boontaker »

Are there any gacha games with an actual storyline? They all just look like Asian gnosticism with a coomerbait paint job.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Adjusted for inflation I probably spent way more at arcades than most kids spend on gacha, and I wasn't even a big arcade player.
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Boontaker wrote: May 16th, 2025, 05:10
Are there any gacha games with an actual storyline? They all just look like Asian gnosticism with a coomerbait paint job.
Granblue Fantasy, made by former Final Fantasy talent including Hideo Minaba, Akihiko Yoshida, Tsutomu Narita, and Nobuo Uematsu. It is very story heavy, pretty much a Final Fantasy game and visual novel but available on your phone, with optional endgame stuff if you want to do that. I was took notes down and lots and hundreds of screenshots when I started going through that game's story and its story events years ago, but sadly I never found any forum that was interested in discussing it. On here I have posted writeups on my thoughts of three storylines. I also covered the Relink spinoff game.

The first arc starts off meh as there is a lot of "and then monsters showed up so we have to have a fight!" stuff happening over and over, but eventually they dropped that and just embraced the visual novelness. I started getting really invested by chapter 40 when you capture the Black Knight and then go down to the jail cell to her and realize she is not evil, so you break her out and go save her homeland of Erste, whose name has been hijacked by a military junta. And then there were so many parts of the story that I liked after that. The epilogue to Erste. Reinhardtzar and how he has been sobered by the reality that governments tend to be corrupt and that it is hard to find one worthy to fight for. Fif agonizing that her dear friend is a wanted mass murderer with the authorities closing in on him. Freyr seeing his comrade Baldr off when the latter decides to desert the Astrals. The scene when Phoenix reveals herself to the Enneads. The tidbits whenever GBF touches upon logistics or businesses, especially in relation to the sky world. When characters and eventually entire islands are being erased from history and only Gran - due to his temporal protection - is able to realize the enormity of what has been lost and no one else understands the true nature of the war they are fighting. Etc. Also lots of funny scenes.

Image
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I also liked the second arc and the currently running third arc, which will hopefully get a conclusion this year. There are also a few side storylines I quite like, such as the one about the Dragon Knights and their two small kingdoms of Feendrache and Wales which are now becoming swamped with lots of terrorists and rebels. The game has an inbuilt English localization, is very generous (I have over 500 characters just from logging in during the Anniversary/Summer/Christmas events), and does not require any grinding to see its story. So I strongly recommend it.

If I had a complaint, it's my same general issue with Japanese fiction as a whole, which is that after a while you realize that the worldview of these writers is that they don't want to believe in evil or accountability. They want to believe that everyone is some nice, civilized person like themselves and nobody really has malicious intent, and that war is innately evil and never just. They don't want to admit that there is a God or an absolute right or wrong and that a lot of people reject God, and that evil exists and there is a moral imperative to destroy it, etc. So there is a metric ton of murderers and traitors getting redeemed or antagonists getting a second sympathetic look, which is nice at first but then becomes frustrating after a while. And ofcourse a lot of scapegoating everything onto demons.

Also, the other complaint is that years pass and there are several couples but they are never allowed to get married.



GBF revolutionized gachas. After that it became standard for gachas to be very story heavy. Fate/Grand Order, Ark Knights, Girls Frontline, and then eventually Genshin and Honkai Star Rail (though also heavily influenced by Trails according to the developers), etc. However, I have yet to have found another gacha that had a story as engrossing as GBF was to me. Mind you, I really like GBF's story in spite of the obvious hamstring of the gacha business model which is that the characters you are reading about are highly unlikely to die, change in a drastic way like get old or get married or maimed or retire, which removes a lot of the tension. The 3D Chinese gachas in particular suffer from most of the screentime being spent with characters standing around and giving dull exposition dumps, rather than characters having tense conversations between each other and things actually happening.
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Post by TKVNC »

If you buy microtransactions you deserve to be poor.
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Post by gerey »

J1M wrote: May 16th, 2025, 02:41
Also, I don't really have any reason to believe this study more than any other video game study, which we happen to know are all crap.
Difference here is that it's discussing a known phenomenon that also manifests outside of gaming. Gambling addiction is a thing, and we've seen countless examples of people gambling their way into financial ruin because of it.

Gacha is basically like one of those modern slot machines with a built in credit card reader, only with waifus.

The story only exists to make masking the predatory monetization easier by attempting to emotionally engage the players via the narrative and voice acting. A schmuck is far more likely to waste hours grinding and/or use premium currency to attempt to draw a character they like or skins for her.
Boontaker wrote: May 16th, 2025, 05:10
Are there any gacha games with an actual storyline? They all just look like Asian gnosticism with a coomerbait paint job.
They all have a story, and many have a lot of talent - famous writers, composers, artists et al - attached to them because they make obscene amounts of money for the parent company.

Fate Grand/Order alone made 7 billions worldwide as of 2024, as an example.
Last edited by gerey on May 16th, 2025, 07:03, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Norfleet »

Fox1 wrote: May 15th, 2025, 21:40
It honestly surprises me that anyone spends a dime for these **** games, I'll never understand it. Perhaps a gambling addiction?
Probably. Gambling addiction is, of course, incomprehensible to those of us who are apparently simply physically immune to its appeal. Effectively, those people are space aliens to us. I find absolutely no appeal in gambling, for instance, win or lose: Whatever the outcome is, I didn't cause it, so I feel no sense of ownership or responsibility for it.

On the flipside, gambling addicts are just ******* weird. I'm told they don't even enjoy "winning", the act of gambling itself is the draw and winning is actually a disruption of the flow of gambling.

Like I said: Weird, incomprehensible. They're either space aliens or mentally ill.
Stack of Turtles wrote: May 16th, 2025, 00:21
Gacha is based because Asians shouldn't have money.
But it is also made BY Asians, so it's just Asians bilking each other of their money.
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Post by Yankee Zulu »

****** and their gachas have nothing to do with this ****. MOBILE GAMING SAYS HELLO. Do you have any idea how much money some individuals spend on mobile games? A LOT. Chinese gaming is on the rise in general because their income level has increased in recent years and they can spend some money on video games.
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Post by Tinky Winky »

Yankee Zulu wrote: May 16th, 2025, 15:48
****** and their gachas have nothing to do with this ****. MOBILE GAMING SAYS HELLO. Do you have any idea how much money some individuals spend on mobile games? A LOT. Chinese gaming is on the rise in general because their income level has increased in recent years and they can spend some money on video games.
More like because they work 70+ hours a week (see:996) and have no real hobby rather than consooming. Think about ******* and their shoes obsession. Another reason is because, like poojeets, they are hierarchical creatures, so they do have a tendency of paying microtransaction in order to prove themselves being economically superior by winning p2w pvp combat.
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Post by Arilando »

A significant proportion of the population are just not capable of living responsible, adult lives.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Microtransactions, gacha, whatever are proof that capitalism works. Ain't nobody paying $4.99 for the ugly negress skin.


If you bought a game with an ugly negress or similar content featured prominently in the material, then I consider you far worse than a gacha addict.
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on May 16th, 2025, 17:20, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SoLong »

Tinky Winky wrote: May 16th, 2025, 16:48
Yankee Zulu wrote: May 16th, 2025, 15:48
****** and their gachas have nothing to do with this ****. MOBILE GAMING SAYS HELLO. Do you have any idea how much money some individuals spend on mobile games? A LOT. Chinese gaming is on the rise in general because their income level has increased in recent years and they can spend some money on video games.
More like because they work 70+ hours a week (see:996) and have no real hobby rather than consooming. Think about ******* and their shoes obsession. Another reason is because, like poojeets, they are hierarchical creatures, so they do have a tendency of paying microtransaction in order to prove themselves being economically superior by winning p2w pvp combat.
But many of the top games don't have any PvP elements at all?

(I actually hate any game that forces PvP on me, I play games to get away from insufferable people!)
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