What are the best ways to present lore in RPGs?

[WhiteShark]

Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?

Any and all information about the game world and its denizens, especially that which is outside the immediate scope of the game's story. Well-written lore contextualizes the story, giving insight into the current goings-on, and makes the world feel more like a real place inhabited by real people. Well-presented lore does all that without being overbearing and intrusive.

[Wretch]

The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.

Is it what people usually refer to as "worldbuilding"?
I'm not being facetious, this is the second recent topic on it

It's usually best when you can do it over a series of games, but considering that studios get shuttered with one bad game it's no wonder so many try to ram it all in at once.

Wow, great and insightful post, tweed. Thanks for spending some of your precious time writing this. I know how valuable it is to you, and i’m sure your dog misses you a lot when you’re away!!

[WhiteShark]

Show, don't tell.

This doesn't apply to games, but I can guess what you mean.
Exposition dumps via cutscene are just as bad as walls of text

Exposition dumps are "telling" regardless of the exact form in which they come. The player should have an opportunity to visit the precursor ruins, not just read about them; he should meet a barbarian from the North, not just hear about them; and so on.

[Jordy]

I wish the lore books in games were audiobooks so i could listen to them while dungeoncrawling. That would make them 10x better.

"I'll store all these books to read later." I probably have thousands of books across different games still waiting to be read.

[rusty_shackleford]

There's mods for the various TES games that make the books audiobooks, but none of them are probably of very high quality

[Wretch]

There's mods for the various TES games that make the books audiobooks, but none of them are probably of very high quality

I used to use the Skyrim one but it would make me crash often and I don’t play Skyrim anymore.

I wish the lore books in games were audiobooks so i could listen to them while dungeoncrawling. That would make them 10x better.

"I'll store all these books to read later." I probably have thousands of books across different games still waiting to be read.

Yeah at this point if i don’t read it immediately I know i won’t read it. I like reading computer entry stuff and little notebook snippets more than actual lorebooks though.

[rusty_shackleford]

Expecting me to stop playing the game just to read something that isn't key to the game itself is a pretty bad decision regardless of how it's presented.
I accept interrupting the game to talk to NPCs because I assume the NPC has something important to talk about, but if it's just a book to tell me about how glorfindale went on a trip to rivendolion and what he did there, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Same reason very few people bother to read quest text in MMOs. I remember when someone made that voiced quest mod for WoW people suddenly learned what the actual story of the quests are because it would keep playing while they went off to actually do the quest.

[WhiteShark]

I wish the lore books in games were audiobooks so i could listen to them while dungeoncrawling. That would make them 10x better.

"I'll store all these books to read later." I probably have thousands of books across different games still waiting to be read.

There are some good contexts for presenting lore in written form―emails in Deus Ex comes to mind―but straight up "lore books" often feel like a cop out, and I think they tempt developers to shove everything into "lore books" instead of presenting it more organically. Developers should think hard about whether there isn't a better way to present it, especially when it's lore with greater bearing on the current story.

[Tweed]

Expecting me to stop playing the game just to read something that isn't key to the game itself is a pretty bad decision regardless of how it's presented.
I accept interrupting the game to talk to NPCs because I assume the NPC has something important to talk about, but if it's just a book to tell me about how glorfindale went on a trip to rivendolion and what he did there, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz


Same reason very few people bother to read quest text in MMOs. I remember when someone made that voiced quest mod for WoW people suddenly learned what the actual story of the quests are because it would keep playing while they went off to actually do the quest.

The problem only arises when its necessary. Having books laying about in games isn't a problem if I'm not being forced to read them although a lot of in-game literature leaves something to be desired, but the ones in Morrowind were all pretty interesting to read. Bethesda did the smart thing with skill books and made them give you skill point for interacting with the item, not for reading it cover to cover.

[Tangerine]

I wish the lore books in games were audiobooks so i could listen to them while dungeoncrawling. That would make them 10x better.

"I'll store all these books to read later." I probably have thousands of books across different games still waiting to be read.

There are some good contexts for presenting lore in written form―emails in Deus Ex comes to mind―but straight up "lore books" often feel like a cop out, and I think they tempt developers to shove everything into "lore books" instead of presenting it more organically. Developers should think hard about whether there isn't a better way to present it, especially when it's lore with greater bearing on the current story.

Deus Ex is an interesting case because it breaks rules in the first level. The NSF leader lore dumps on JC if you let him talk, but it actually works because it's used to frame him as a crazy conspiracy theorist and staves off sympathy for the UN-opposed factions until later in the game.

[WhiteShark]

Deus Ex is an interesting case because it breaks rules in the first level. The NSF leader lore dumps on JC if you let him talk, but it actually works because it's used to frame him as a crazy conspiracy theorist and staves off sympathy for the UN-opposed factions until later in the game.

Agreed, but I also remember it feeling like a conversation, not a one-sided lecture. Not all information can be "shown", but a guy using facts to back up his argument (that incidentally tell you about the world) is much better than encountering those same facts recorded dryly in a book somewhere.

[Tweed]

Deus Ex is an interesting case because it breaks rules in the first level. The NSF leader lore dumps on JC if you let him talk, but it actually works because it's used to frame him as a crazy conspiracy theorist and staves off sympathy for the UN-opposed factions until later in the game.

Agreed, but I also remember it feeling like a conversation, not a one-sided lecture. Not all information can be "shown", but a guy using facts to back up his argument (that incidentally tell you about the world) is much better than encountering those same facts recorded dryly in a book somewhere.

Number one, that's terror.

Though you'll find facts like those in snippets of newspapers and books throughout the game as well, but never in full-sized books they force you to read. Deus Ex is O R G A N I C with its lore.

[Norfleet]

The more I think about it, the more I think lore might be best summarized as all the irrelevant **** and fluff the player doesn't actually need to know to finish the game.

I believe the technical term is "pretentious writefaggotry".

[Orvas Dren]

I like reading books in games, especially when they are well written. One of my favorite things to do in Skyrim was to find some books that caught my eyes while delving or in the arcanaeum, bring them back to my house or a base, and just read while listening to the music of skyrim and the local ambience. It's great for mage playthroughs, and its even better with mods that allow you to read in real time. The books are also written in-universe, so they are never just exposition dumps. Despite Skyrim being what it is, I still have really fond memories of just reading in a cozy library or foyer as my little wizard guy after an adventure.

[WaterMage]

Obviously a endless exposition spam for the most generic setting imaginable, this is how you present lore /s