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What are the best ways to present lore in RPGs?

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
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What are the best ways to present lore in RPGs?

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Final Fantasy X: as you journey through Spira, you occasionally bump into an elder (I forgot his name) on the road. If you stop and talk to him, he gives you a brief history lessons about a statue or a ruin there, like how "this is a statue of a guy who formed the crusaders and paved this road", or how "these lightning rods were built by this guy so people like us could travel through this lightning desert and he was tragically struck by lightning when he built the last tower. May he ever be remembered."




World of Warcraft Mists of Pandaria: there are stone monument dotted across Pandaria that you can walk up to and interact with, and it will read "this monument is dedicated to this monk, who taught us during the Mogu occupation how to fight with our bare hands since our weapons were taken away" or "this monument is dedicated to the rebels who rapelled down the mountain on the day of the rebellion against the Mogu and destroyed their robot factory before it could be used against us" or "this monument remember this freespirited guy Liu Lang who sailed away on his pet turtle Shen-Zin-Su, never to be seen again.".

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Trails series: each chapter you can buy this week's newspapers from any general store and read it. It tells you about what is happening offscreen on the other side of the country or major events happening in other countries at the moment, what is going on the government, upcoming festivals, interviews with characters like politicans or CEOs, announcements about major technological breakthroughs, etc. There are also sometimes non-fiction books to read like Nielsien's commentary on the annexation of North Ambria. The series is also famous for how every NPC's dialogue updates throughout the game and has storylines to follow and reacting to plot events, making the world feel alive, though usually only convey what is going on in the present, like present issues and groups. They typically do not talk about stuff that happened more than 10 years ago past the Hundred Day War.

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Elder Scrolls: has lots of books, not just fiction/short stories but also nonfiction like books talking about how magic works or histories.

Pokemon and Trails have museums in a couple games where you walk up to plaques and read things such as "these are water samples collected from different regions, comparing salinity" or "this mysterious smooth stone was unearthed from these ruins. Its purpose has not been identified" or "this is a model of a new luxury airship produced by the Reinford company".

Certain MMOs have festivals that are not blatant copies of American holidays like Christmas and Halloween, and the NPCs that host them convey a little bit of lore about how the festival got started (or shows what that country cares about).
  • Final Fantasy XI has the Feast of Swords carried over from the Far East where boys get a wooden kendo sword and go beat up "brigands" in samurai armor.
  • Final Fantasy XIV has Little Ladies' Day, where maidens are treated as a princess for a day, and you find out how the event was started by this noble family in Ul'dah.
    FF14 also has The Rising, which is a remembrance day celebrating when Eorzea was devastated by a calamity.
  • Guild Wars 2 has the Dragon Bash festival, which celebrates when Elder Dragons devastated the land and their demise, where you go beat up effigies of dragons and sing songs about killing dragons.
  • Genshin Impact has the Fontinalia Festival, celebrating when the lochknights found the Hydro Archon.
  • Star Citizen has an annual celebration of the founding of the UEE, where a navy Javelin capital ship docks at space stations and the general public can board it get a tour of some of the insides, where crewmen NPC give some history or explain what this and that station is for. SC also has an annual spaceship show event where you go to a convention center on ArcCorp and look and sit in all of the fancy spaceships parked there, and get to learn about the history of those ships and their manufacturers.

You do not often see fantasy festivals as involved in singleplayer RPGs. The Trails series has had some festivals (Queen Alicia's 60th birthday celebration in Liberl, Erebonia summer festival that has horse racing, Thors academy festival, Revolution Day Celebration Calvard, Aramis school festival. Tharbad has an established film festival with Messeldam trying trying to start their own up to drive their economy, and they are trying to clamp down on crime to look like good hosts).
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on March 15th, 2025, 21:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Make it playable. I don't care about it otherwise tbh.
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Post by maidenhaver »

I like a world told in architecture. As I've said elsewhere, my biggest problem with Skyrim is the carpentry. The wood is all wrong, not in a fantastic way, but like how somebody who has gone to school for gamedev and never seen wood would imagine wood architecture.
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Post by Tadeusz »

I think the best way to present lore is through small chunks via dialogues and surroundings. Ideally, lore should be related to the plot of game quests. Then, if the player is interested, he can read more via in-game literature.
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Post by Tweed »

"People will forgive your game for having a story if it stays out of their way" - Jeff Vogel (More or less)

The worst possible thing you can do is try and force the player to be interested in the lore. Give them whatever is relevant to their immediate needs in the quests and put everything else in the sidelines, if you've done a good job they'll seek it out, if they don't give a **** they won't. This is why people still talk about Morrowind when a lot of the lore was handed to you in books and wikipedia dialogue tags and nobody gives a flying **** about Pillows of Shiternity even though they tried to shove tons of lore down your throat at every possible moment, plus having stacks of books.
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Post by Tangerine »

If your characters are talking about the lore, you're doing it wrong.
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Post by J1M »

The best way is to have characters the player can, but is not forced to, interact with that are paragons of their specific race/religion/group/nation. Then write those characters from that perspective with those mannerisms. "We should burn these heretics!" not "I think as a pure Tevian my stance on non-Tevian Floupals is that they should be killed due to the 38882 event that has shaped our culture for the last 73 solar cycles."

PS: It doesn't matter if players can see what you are doing. They know they are playing a game every time they click the mouse.
Last edited by J1M on March 6th, 2025, 14:18, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Valter »

Show, don't tell. I'd rather be confused and intrigued than elucidated and bored.
I can stomach loredumps from loregods like @J1M exemplifies, because it makes sense that they act that way. But have too many of those types of characters and I'm likely to just walk away and go increase the orphan demographic into a supermajority or something.
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Post by Irenaeus »

Huge tomes to read before playing to even begin understanding the characters' motivations.
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Post by Oyster Sauce »

subtle foreshadowing and buildup

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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Valter wrote: March 6th, 2025, 16:40
Show, don't tell.
This doesn't apply to games, but I can guess what you mean.
Exposition dumps via cutscene are just as bad as walls of text
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Post by Acrux »

E N V I R O N M E N T A L W O R L D B U I L D I N G
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Acrux wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:21
E N V I R O N M E N T A L W O R L D B U I L D I N G
Any game dev can place old looking buildings or castle ruins or statues and call it the day. Is there one way or another that is more effective?
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
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Post by Acrux »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Any game dev can place old looking buildings or castle ruins or statues and call it the day.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Tweed wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
Is it what people usually refer to as "worldbuilding"?
I'm not being facetious, this is the second recent topic on it
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:38
Tweed wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
Is it what people usually refer to as "worldbuilding"?
I'm not being facetious, this is the second recent topic on it
Beats me, but probably. I assume Westwood was throwing CD buyers a bone since they had all that extra room on the disc.
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Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
It's extra information you give to players so they can extend the time they can spend in their head thinking about the game's world. It can be anything from the ramifications of an implied love triangle to an alchemical divine cosmology chart.
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Post by Tangerine »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:38
Tweed wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
Is it what people usually refer to as "worldbuilding"?
I'm not being facetious, this is the second recent topic on it
Lore is a subset of worldbuilding. It covers the narratively unimportant whats and whys of the game world.
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Post by Wretch »

You tube essays to decipher your cryptic “up to interpretation” lore
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:38
Tweed wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
Is it what people usually refer to as "worldbuilding"?
I'm not being facetious, this is the second recent topic on it
It's usually best when you can do it over a series of games, but considering that studios get shuttered with one bad game it's no wonder so many try to ram it all in at once.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I really liked how the might and magic & wizardry games mixed fantasy with sci-fi, if that counts. It's a very subtle thing, it's not science-fantasy.

That is, how it slowly unfolds as you play and you go 'oh', 'ohhhh'
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on March 7th, 2025, 06:46, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 06:43
I really liked how the might and magic & wizardry games mixed fantasy with sci-fi, if that counts. It's a very subtle thing, it's not science-fantasy.

That is, how it slowly unfolds as you play and you go 'oh', 'ohhhh'
NWC played it smart, only revealing tidbits of the overarching plot towards the end of each game while exposing you to the futuristic parts. There's already a load of stuff going on in each world anyway, but it's all tied together by THE ANCIENTS. Too bad we'll never find out what it was all about though.
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Post by Monochrome »

Show, don't tell.
Last edited by Monochrome on March 7th, 2025, 08:47, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Jordy »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: March 6th, 2025, 03:59
Elder Scrolls: has lots of books, not just fiction/short stories but also nonfiction like books talking about how magic works or histories.
I would add to this all the secrets in the game that you only find after going down a rabbit hole. There's also little bits of side lore where a cave/dungeon will have a story behind it. That pile of skulls on the floor or bloodstain and dropped sword isn't just dungeon design, there's usually a reason behind it.
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Post by Norfleet »

I can't tell you what the BEST way to present lore is, but I can tell you what the WORST way is: In the middle of a piece of time-pressued content, whether that pressure comes in the form of a clock or an annoyed multiplayer group.
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Post by Valter »

Tweed wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 7th, 2025, 04:23
Can someone explain exactly what 'lore' refers to?
The CD version of Lands of Lore has a "Lore of the Lands" button and it seems to be a history lesson on the past of the game world narrated by King Richard (because they needed to get as much out of Patrick Stewart as possible).

So lore is history and by proxy, fluff for the game's setting if we go by Westwood's definition.
Yeah a lot of the time I associate "lore" with what transpired before the events of the game take place
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Post by Wretch »

Jordy wrote: March 7th, 2025, 09:21
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: March 6th, 2025, 03:59
Elder Scrolls: has lots of books, not just fiction/short stories but also nonfiction like books talking about how magic works or histories.
I would add to this all the secrets in the game that you only find after going down a rabbit hole. There's also little bits of side lore where a cave/dungeon will have a story behind it. That pile of skulls on the floor or bloodstain and dropped sword isn't just dungeon design, there's usually a reason behind it.
This used to really be Bethesda’s strong suit. I loved their dungeons across games and all the little micro stories encased within. As much as I dislike skyrim as a whole the dwemer ruins were really good.

I think I’m more of a dungeon crawler/ tight focused game enjoyer when it comes to rpgs and games (except kenshi and mount and blade warband). I really don’t care about tons of branching paths or killing everyone. I would rather have interesting and visually pleasing characters, engaging and well written stories, beautiful aesthetics ,and tight enjoyable gameplay any day. The games i regularly replay all have these features.

I wish the lore books in games were audiobooks so i could listen to them while dungeoncrawling. That would make them 10x better.
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Post by Tweed »

The more I think about it, the more I think lore might be best summarized as all the irrelevant **** and fluff the player doesn't actually need to know to finish the game.