Junior Adventurer's Guild - February: Baldur's Gate

[DagothGeas5]

Voting for Arcanum will tie things up and create drama.

I go on a "first come first served" basis, though I rather cast my vote because someone actually wants to play compared to just make things difficult (however amusing they may end up being)

Then I request your support...for Arcanum! (because I like the game, not the drama).

Then Arcanum it is

[Acrux]

Early voting

[Tweed]

How can we save gaming?

[1998]

Looking good here!

[Fitz]

I’m down for the original BG. Good opportunity to finally go through it. And a good excuse to enjoy some classic RTwP.

[Tweed]

I don't want to play Baldur's Gate this month so we're not playing it and that's final.

[1998]

I don't want to play Baldur's Gate this month so we're not playing it and that's final.

We are not?

► Show Spoiler

[Tweed]

I don't want to play Baldur's Gate this month so we're not playing it and that's final.

We are not?

► Show Spoiler

NO we're not.

[Boontaker]

I don't want to play Baldur's Gate this month so we're not playing it and that's final.

We are not?

► Show Spoiler

NO we're not.

So many kobolds are going to die this month

[Lord of Riva]

Nah, gonna skip Baldurs gate. I do not particularly enjoy the first one actually.

I'm a storyfag, sue me

[Valter]

Nah, gonna skip Baldurs gate. I do not particularly enjoy the first one actually.

I'm a storyfag, sue me

the story sucks?

[Lord of Riva]

Nah, gonna skip Baldurs gate. I do not particularly enjoy the first one actually.

I'm a storyfag, sue me

the story sucks?

what story?

BG1 is full of joke characters, I do not particularly like any of them. They tried to emulate the goofiness of some P&P sessions, I get that but nah.

To make that clear I played through the game, twice, and that it more than enough for a lifetime for me.

[rusty_shackleford]

Nah, gonna skip Baldurs gate. I do not particularly enjoy the first one actually.

I'm a storyfag, sue me

the story sucks?

I dislike the full plot of the game, but the Iron Crisis — which is about 80% of the game's story — is one of the best plotlines in any video game.
I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the iron crisis came from their tabletop game and someone forced them to add the rest of the plot to help sell it or something.

► Show Spoiler

Iron crisis works at multiple levels, it directly affects you as a low level adventurer — your weapons are falling apart! Quality weapons are expensive!
The Iron Throne is making money from their own mining operations and acquiring foreign weapons to sell. They're hiring mercenaries to pose as bandits to raid trade caravans, and raiding trade caravans places further pressure on the economy.
Of course, full-out war would have been bad for business and they had no intention of actually forcing Baldur's Gate to go to war with Amn… but Sarveok did, and was using the Iron Throne as a pawn in his grander scheme.

Nearly EVERY NPC in Baldur's Gate has unique charm dialogue, especially named ones. This is Rieltar's charm dialogue:

I'm one of the western divisional leaders of the Iron Throne. We are here at Candlekeep negotiating with the Knights of the Shield. We have been creating a misinformation campaign to blame the Zhentarim for all the troubles in the region. We are trying to create tensions between the governments of Baldur's Gate and Amn. With iron being the most important resource in a war, the Baldurian government will have to go to us in order to get any. We have disrupted all iron trade through the region using the Blacktalon mercenaries and the Chill. The only known iron mine in the region is at Nashkel, and we have effectively crippled that mine. We have our own mine operating in Cloakwood. When the Baldurian government comes to us for iron, we will be able to make exorbitant trading demands, and thus become the preeminent trading power in this region.

[Acrux]

Nah, gonna skip Baldurs gate. I do not particularly enjoy the first one actually.

I'm a storyfag, sue me

the story sucks?

what story?

BG1 is full of joke characters, I do not particularly like any of them. They tried to emulate the goofiness of some P&P sessions, I get that but nah.

To make that clear I played through the game, twice, and that it more than enough for a lifetime for me.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are some joke encounters, but I wouldn't say that characterizes the game. Even in those the humor is a lot more subdued than what passes for humor in modern games.

[Lord of Riva]

-

It's not the actual story but how the game presents it, it's not necessarily a bad setting.

[rusty_shackleford]

Also, Tales of the Sword Coast is some of the best content in any RPG.

[Lord of Riva]

the story sucks?

what story?

BG1 is full of joke characters, I do not particularly like any of them. They tried to emulate the goofiness of some P&P sessions, I get that but nah.

To make that clear I played through the game, twice, and that it more than enough for a lifetime for me.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are some joke encounters, but I wouldn't say that characterizes the game. Even in those the humor is a lot more subdued than what passes for humor in modern games.

*shrug*

I played BG2 before BG1 and started 1 like 30 times before finally beating it because it bore me to death. It's not even a great set-up for 2 so I found it to be a waste of time.

I later replayed it in the "enhanced edition" to for once play through the series in full and in order, I still did not enjoy the experience.

We can debate the why all day long, but what remains is that I find BG1 not a great experience.

[Valter]

-

It's not the actual story but how the game presents it, it's not necessarily a bad setting.

I know what you mean. I've found that this usually a clash in quality between different writers who worked in the same project.

[Acrux]

what story?

BG1 is full of joke characters, I do not particularly like any of them. They tried to emulate the goofiness of some P&P sessions, I get that but nah.

To make that clear I played through the game, twice, and that it more than enough for a lifetime for me.

That's a bit of an exaggeration. There are some joke encounters, but I wouldn't say that characterizes the game. Even in those the humor is a lot more subdued than what passes for humor in modern games.

*shrug*

I played BG2 before BG1 and started 1 like 30 times before finally beating it because it bore me to death. It's not even a great set-up for 2 so I found it to be a waste of time.

I later replayed it in the "enhanced edition" to for once play through the series in full and in order, I still did not enjoy the experience.

We can debate the why all day long, but what remains is that I find BG1 not a great experience.

That's fine. I'm mainly clarifying since some people in this thread haven't played it and I wanted to level expectations.

[rusty_shackleford]

The writing is probably too barebones, but BG2 goes too far in the other direction.

BG1 was probably one of the last major RPGs to not have dedicated writers, the designers are merely credited as writers.

[Lord of Riva]

The writing is probably too barebones, but BG2 goes too far in the other direction.

BG1 was probably one of the last major RPGs to not have dedicated writers, the designers are merely credited as writers.

I can imagine that for people enjoying the first, the second would be too much. But for me it created the immersion that really brought me into enjoying the game. I do not like the underdark particularly in BG2 for examples as it does not follow the same open ended and strong storytelling their either.

I have never finished IWD, I know that it is basically only combat but at least i do not go into it with the expectation that it is something else (also less cringe Companions)
maybe I will try that one instead. That said I still plan on playing Exile 3 as well so there is that.

EDIT: I mean what you guys should consider is that Forgotten Realms was not that big of a deal in germany back then, I grew up on DSA and the Das schwarze Auge, Schicksalklinge (Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny) so it's not me reliving my Pen & Paper evenings with BG1

When I played BG2 for the first time I did not know anything about the ruleset, boy was a ThAC0 something I did not understand when I first played.

[rusty_shackleford]

The writing is probably too barebones, but BG2 goes too far in the other direction.

BG1 was probably one of the last major RPGs to not have dedicated writers, the designers are merely credited as writers.

I can imagine that for people enjoying the first, the second would be too much. But for me it created the immersion that really brought me into enjoying the game. I do not like the underdark particularly in BG2 for examples as it does not follow the same open ended and strong storytelling their either.

I have never finished IWD, I know that it is basically only combat but at least i do not go into it with the expectation that it is something else (also less cringe Companions)
maybe I will try that one instead. That said I still plan on playing Exile 3 as well so there is that.

BG2 is much more linear than BG1 and allows for far less player choice tho,

► Show Spoiler

For example, BG1 frequently accounts for you using invisibility to get past encounters without fighting. But BG2 does not allow you to bypass many encounters this way e.g., you are required to kill Ajantis, if you try to invis past there is, iirc, an invisible wall, or it was just a forced cutscene.
BG1 also has charm dialogue on every(?) named NPC, BG2 barely has any. This is one of the biggest signs of the game being linear, they did not want anyone to miss content because they didn't think outside the box.

BG2 is only more non-linear in a storyfag way of which dialogue options you get to pick.

You can see the impact of having designers as writers vs having dedicated writers.

[fkirenicus]

The writing is probably too barebones, but BG2 goes too far in the other direction.

BG1 was probably one of the last major RPGs to not have dedicated writers, the designers are merely credited as writers.

I can imagine that for people enjoying the first, the second would be too much. But for me it created the immersion that really brought me into enjoying the game. I do not like the underdark particularly in BG2 for examples as it does not follow the same open ended and strong storytelling their either.

I have never finished IWD, I know that it is basically only combat but at least i do not go into it with the expectation that it is something else (also less cringe Companions)
maybe I will try that one instead. That said I still plan on playing Exile 3 as well so there is that.

BG2 is much more linear than BG1 and allows for far less player choice tho,

► Show Spoiler

For example, BG1 frequently accounts for you using invisibility to get past encounters without fighting. But BG2 does not allow you to bypass many encounters this way e.g., you are required to kill Ajantis, if you try to invis past there is, iirc, an invisible wall, or it was just a forced cutscene.
BG1 also has charm dialogue on every(?) named NPC, BG2 barely has any. This is one of the biggest signs of the game being linear, they did not want anyone to miss content because they didn't think outside the box.

BG2 is only more non-linear in a storyfag way of which dialogue options you get to pick.

Exploring the Sword Coast freely is one of the best things with BG1. I really enjoy wandering aimlessly and carefree ...until Mutamin, of course.

[rusty_shackleford]

I can imagine that for people enjoying the first, the second would be too much. But for me it created the immersion that really brought me into enjoying the game. I do not like the underdark particularly in BG2 for examples as it does not follow the same open ended and strong storytelling their either.

I have never finished IWD, I know that it is basically only combat but at least i do not go into it with the expectation that it is something else (also less cringe Companions)
maybe I will try that one instead. That said I still plan on playing Exile 3 as well so there is that.

BG2 is much more linear than BG1 and allows for far less player choice tho,

► Show Spoiler

For example, BG1 frequently accounts for you using invisibility to get past encounters without fighting. But BG2 does not allow you to bypass many encounters this way e.g., you are required to kill Ajantis, if you try to invis past there is, iirc, an invisible wall, or it was just a forced cutscene.
BG1 also has charm dialogue on every(?) named NPC, BG2 barely has any. This is one of the biggest signs of the game being linear, they did not want anyone to miss content because they didn't think outside the box.

BG2 is only more non-linear in a storyfag way of which dialogue options you get to pick.

Exploring the Sword Coast freely is one of the best things with BG1. I really enjoy wandering aimlessly and carefree ...until Mutamin, of course.

BG1 is technically somewhat 'open world', most of the maps lineup to make one map and travel time is much less when traveling to a connected area in the correct direction

► Show Spoiler

[Lord of Riva]

► Show Spoiler

For example, BG1 frequently accounts for you using invisibility to get past encounters without fighting. But BG2 does not allow you to bypass many encounters this way e.g., you are required to kill Ajantis, if you try to invis past there is, iirc, an invisible wall, or it was just a forced cutscene.
BG1 also has charm dialogue on every(?) named NPC, BG2 barely has any. This is one of the biggest signs of the game being linear, they did not want anyone to miss content because they didn't think outside the box.

BG2 is only more non-linear in a storyfag way of which dialogue options you get to pick.

It is funny how that works, I see your argument there most sandbox games have vastly more "player choices" in the realm of gameplay, I'm sure that is also true for BG1 to BG2 but when people refer to "choices" they mostly refer to aspects that give the illusion of changing the story and outcome of the story.

It's kind of backwards actually, I agree on that, but that is what I meant.

The last time I played through I actually played an lawful evil character, which was fun (though a bit lackluster still) and that way of roleplay is more fun story wise imho.

[rusty_shackleford]

► Show Spoiler

For example, BG1 frequently accounts for you using invisibility to get past encounters without fighting. But BG2 does not allow you to bypass many encounters this way e.g., you are required to kill Ajantis, if you try to invis past there is, iirc, an invisible wall, or it was just a forced cutscene.
BG1 also has charm dialogue on every(?) named NPC, BG2 barely has any. This is one of the biggest signs of the game being linear, they did not want anyone to miss content because they didn't think outside the box.

BG2 is only more non-linear in a storyfag way of which dialogue options you get to pick.

It is funny how that works, I see your argument there most sandbox games have vastly more "player choices" in the realm of gameplay, I'm sure that is also true for BG1 to BG2 but when people refer to "choices" they mostly refer to aspects that give the illusion of changing the story and outcome of the story.

It's kind of backwards actually, I agree on that, but that is what I meant.

The last time I played through I actually played an lawful evil character, which was fun (though a bit lackluster still) and that way of roleplay is more fun story wise imho.

When you can actually use it to impact and change the story itself you get stuff like BG3, one of the reasons it's so highly regarded… the first half, anyways. It's a shame developers are going to take away all the wrong ideas because they probably just played it like a storyfag game, something not discussed much is how many developers — writers especially so — actually suck at video games.

[Finarfin]

The writing is probably too barebones, but BG2 goes too far in the other direction.

BG1 was probably one of the last major RPGs to not have dedicated writers, the designers are merely credited as writers.

I can imagine that for people enjoying the first, the second would be too much. But for me it created the immersion that really brought me into enjoying the game. I do not like the underdark particularly in BG2 for examples as it does not follow the same open ended and strong storytelling their either.

I have never finished IWD, I know that it is basically only combat but at least i do not go into it with the expectation that it is something else (also less cringe Companions)
maybe I will try that one instead. That said I still plan on playing Exile 3 as well so there is that.

EDIT: I mean what you guys should consider is that Forgotten Realms was not that big of a deal in germany back then, I grew up on DSA and the Das schwarze Auge, Schicksalklinge (Realms of Arkania: Blade of Destiny) so it's not me reliving my Pen & Paper evenings with BG1

When I played BG2 for the first time I did not know anything about the ruleset, boy was a ThAC0 something I did not understand when I first played.

Uhm DSA and Das schwarze Auge is the same thing.

[rusty_shackleford]

There's actually been a surprising amount of games based on DSA, if not the ruleset then the world it uses.

[Finarfin]

I kinda wish someone would make a BG3 styled DSA game. The world and lore of DSA is great from what little I experienced.

[rusty_shackleford]

I kinda wish someone would make a BG3 styled DSA game. The world and lore of DSA is great from what little I experienced.

Drakensang: The River of Time is pretty good if you haven't played it. First one is really boring.