We have a Steam curator now. You should be following it. https://store.steampowered.com/curator/44994899-RPGHQ/
Chat client updated, if you have issues using chat press CTRL + SHIFT + R to force a hard refresh.

Why doesn't the West pump out serialized RPGs like Asia does?

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
Ignore Topic
User avatar
Val the Moofia Boss
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 4198
Joined: Jun 3, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Why doesn't the West pump out serialized RPGs like Asia does?

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Image

In 2004, Nihon Falcom began releasing new (box purchase) chapters in their annual Trails JRPG/3D visual novel series. Fans are never kept waiting more than one or two years to find out what happens next with their favorite characters, visit new cities and countries, find out which countries are going to go to war with each other, the payoff to a years long subplot (usually disappointing), etc. As of 2023, there are 13 entries in the series and still going. 2012 saw the relaunch of the subscription game Final Fantasy XIV that releases a new chapter in its ongoing 400+ hour long visual novel story every 4 to 5 months. 2014 saw the release of the mobile visual novel/RPG Granblue Fantasy that delivers new fully voice visual novel stories to read every 2 weeks. In 2020 the Chinese took that format and added a 3D component to it and released Genshin Impact, a 3D visual novel RPG that delivers new content every 40 days and each year releases a new city and surrounding area to explore. I think its story is a few hundred hours long too now. That spawned a new genre of imitator Chinese 3D RPGs like Honkai Star Rail or Wuthering Waves. And so on. What I am getting at here is that for long while, Asia has been making serialized RPGs with regular releases to maintain fan interest.


Image

So why hasn't the West been doing the same? Mass Effect got three games over a five year period, and then that was it. The same deal with The Banner Saga trilogy. Warframe only managed to deliver 2 hours of story per year before the timetables became enormous after the Sacrifice. World of Warcraft and GW2 are the currently only ongoing serialized Western RPGs, with receiving a new update every 7 months, but does not have an emphasis on story like those Asian games. GW2 had more of an emphasis on story but unfortunately its development has been troubled since 2019 when layoffs hit the studio, veterans left, inexperience new people came in, content hasn't been as good or in as much quantity, etc. Seems to have entered managed decline (WoW arguably has too with less and less zones being made nowadays compared to 10-15 years ago). During the 2010s, Assassins' Creed was probably the most like Trails in that it reused the same battle system and code to release a new entry every 1 to 2 years, but it was a different cast and setting each time and no one cared about whatever overarching story there was. There seems to be nothing on the horizon here in the West.

Given Baldur's Gate 3's popularity, you'd think that people would gobble up a serialized version of that with new chapters coming out every few months (if as a live service game like FF14, GBF, or Genshin) or year (if like a box purchase series like Trails). But no one has jumped on that, is instead content to just make box release games with many years between entries, or if they're making live service games then it is gamey games like Fortnite where the updates give new maps to PvP on rather than new chapters of a story to go through.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on March 15th, 2025, 21:35, edited 1 time in total.

Tags:
User avatar
Oyster Sauce
Site Moderator
Posts: 11295
Joined: Jun 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Oyster Sauce »

Browns and women and HR departments
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

My off the cuff guess is that japanese studios are much more stable in terms of developer retention than western studios are.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Valter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Jun 12, '24

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Valter »

I imagine it's faster to pump out content when you're using stylized graphics that a smartphone can run as opposed to the high production realistic style western games tend to go with.
Steam friend code: 1525876263
User avatar
orinEsque
Posts: 4920
Joined: Oct 9, '23
Location: Dubai
Gender: Potato

Geolocation

Post by orinEsque »

I suspect Japanese slave worker salary man culture also has a hand in it.
Victors clap when others succeed; Losers feel every spotlight as a personal bleed.
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

This was a thing with Neverwinter Nights. But the real American equivalent is the sports genre where they can resell the same game each year with an updated roster.

I think the short answer is that most companies would rather go broke trying to be the next Call of Duty billion dollar franchise than suffer the indignity of pumping out similar products every two years to a stable audience.
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

J1M wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:01
than suffer the indignity of pumping out similar products every two years to a stable audience.
(western) Game developers have also been quite vocal about how much they hate their customers
Last edited by rusty_shackleford on January 28th, 2025, 01:04, edited 1 time in total.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Are there any examples of western developers who seem happy with their audience and aren't constantly trying to replace them with a new one?
Sportsball games were already mentioned, that's probably one I guess. I don't know enough about it.

I have a normie acquaintance who stopped playing call of doody because of how gay they made it with the skins and celeb ****, it's not tacticool enough for him anymore.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Vergil
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sep 6, '23

Geolocation

Post by Vergil »

Annoying brown women
I'm just stating the facts.
Question is are you going to gargle the truth or swallow?
User avatar
gerey
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 3200
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by gerey »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:08
Are there any examples of western developers who seem happy with their audience and aren't constantly trying to replace them with a new one?
Sportsball games were already mentioned, that's probably one I guess. I don't know enough about it
Vogel?
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

gerey wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:14
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:08
Are there any examples of western developers who seem happy with their audience and aren't constantly trying to replace them with a new one?
Sportsball games were already mentioned, that's probably one I guess. I don't know enough about it
Vogel?
You definitely have to go to small or solo indie devs.
Vogel probably does gets close to filling what @Val the Moofia Boss was discussing, at least on a very small scale.
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Roderick
Posts: 483
Joined: Nov 19, '24

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Roderick »

Actual games vs live service slop :lol:
User avatar
Valter
Posts: 1740
Joined: Jun 12, '24

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Valter »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:08
Are there any examples of western developers who seem happy with their audience and aren't constantly trying to replace them with a new one?
Sportsball games were already mentioned, that's probably one I guess. I don't know enough about it.

I have a normie acquaintance who stopped playing call of doody because of how gay they made it with the skins and celeb ****, it's not tacticool enough for him anymore.
Racing gamers? I never hear a peep out of them and games like Forza are consistently good sellers iirc.
Steam friend code: 1525876263
User avatar
Basefrog
Posts: 27
Joined: Jan 19, '25

Geolocation

Post by Basefrog »

I'm guessing some of the main reasons are:
  1. Unless things have changed recently, most modern western game devs appear to be unskilled, fat, ugly, political activists who couldn't produce anything of value even if they wanted to
  2. Why would those funding the development of said games want to take any sort of risk when they know consumers will buy re-skinned slop every single year?
It's unfortunate and it would be nice to see great RPG series again, though I'm not sure what the solution would be.
User avatar
1998
Posts: 2949
Joined: Jun 23, '23
Location: Beregost

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by 1998 »

  • Western devs take themselves too seriously. Every game has to be a one-of-a kind epic masterpiece
  • Different leadership style. In Japan if some director decides on a certain piece, that's it. No lengthy discussions, pointless meetings and revisions
  • Average Jap dev almost certainly puts in way more hours than his western counterpart
  • Audience expectations. Episodic games would not be perceived overly well at least in the beginning. Even expansion packs (DAO) got criticized for just being a continuation of the story
  • In many cases, even if a sequel is objectively better, it sells considerably less than the first game. Not a good starting point for annual releases
My Reviews
Somnus [Not Recommended]
New Arc Line [Early Access] [Informational]
Passageway of the Ancients [Not Recommended]
Beyond Galaxyland [Recommended]
Old School RPG [Informational]
SKALD: The Black Priory [Recommended]

My Steam
38123774
User avatar
Rand
Posts: 6640
Joined: Sep 4, '23
Location: On my last legs

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Rand »

It isn't just RPGs.
As evidence, I give you the Dynasty Warriors medieval China superheroes series, and the Romance of the Three Kingdoms strategic combat series.

Western devs are pretentious *** auteurs or something.
You may as well not bother replying to my posts if it's to argue anything except concrete facts or your personal opinion. I still probably won't see it.
Reject your retarded-wing political programming and learn to think.
If you can.
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:08
Are there any examples of western developers who seem happy with their audience and aren't constantly trying to replace them with a new one?
Sportsball games were already mentioned, that's probably one I guess. I don't know enough about it.

I have a normie acquaintance who stopped playing call of doody because of how gay they made it with the skins and celeb ****, it's not tacticool enough for him anymore.
Outside of sports you'd have to look at something targeted at women like hidden object games.

Ironically, everyone else is trying to target women. :smug:
Last edited by J1M on January 28th, 2025, 03:24, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

1998 wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 02:21
  • Western devs take themselves too seriously. Every game has to be a one-of-a kind epic masterpiece
  • Different leadership style. In Japan if some director decides on a certain piece, that's it. No lengthy discussions, pointless meetings and revisions
  • Average Jap dev almost certainly puts in way more hours than his western counterpart
  • Audience expectations. Episodic games would not be perceived overly well at least in the beginning. Even expansion packs (DAO) got criticized for just being a continuation of the story
  • In many cases, even if a sequel is objectively better, it sells considerably less than the first game. Not a good starting point for annual releases
That may have been true with physical media, but I have to assume that today every subsequent release results in additional sales from people who want to replay the old games or "prepare" for the new title by playing the old ones for the first time.
User avatar
1998
Posts: 2949
Joined: Jun 23, '23
Location: Beregost

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by 1998 »

J1M wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 03:26
1998 wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 02:21
  • Western devs take themselves too seriously. Every game has to be a one-of-a kind epic masterpiece
  • Different leadership style. In Japan if some director decides on a certain piece, that's it. No lengthy discussions, pointless meetings and revisions
  • Average Jap dev almost certainly puts in way more hours than his western counterpart
  • Audience expectations. Episodic games would not be perceived overly well at least in the beginning. Even expansion packs (DAO) got criticized for just being a continuation of the story
  • In many cases, even if a sequel is objectively better, it sells considerably less than the first game. Not a good starting point for annual releases
That may have been true with physical media, but I have to assume that today every subsequent release results in additional sales from people who want to replay the old games or "prepare" for the new title by playing the old ones for the first time.
Even if that would be true, 90% discounted sales after a few years are almost meaningless. Also Pillars 2 sold less than 1, same for Grimrock.
My Reviews
Somnus [Not Recommended]
New Arc Line [Early Access] [Informational]
Passageway of the Ancients [Not Recommended]
Beyond Galaxyland [Recommended]
Old School RPG [Informational]
SKALD: The Black Priory [Recommended]

My Steam
38123774
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Theoretically, it should cost significantly less to make the second game than the first.
In reality, this isn't true(anymore). Too many revolving employees that have to be trained, boneheaded decisions to not reuse assets or shift technology, etc.,

the animango games are being made in the same style with the same tech for a decade straight
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Brother Chad
Developer
Posts: 222
Joined: May 25, '24

Geolocation

Post by Brother Chad »

This thread: western devs are pretentious wannabe auteurs

Actual western devs: shits out underbaked corporate slop with zero artistic merit

lol
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Brother Chad wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 05:46
This thread: western devs are pretentious wannabe auteurs

Actual western devs: shits out underbaked corporate slop with zero artistic merit

lol
oh man if I tell you to buy nvidia stock in 2006 will you give me half of what you make by 2024?
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Tangerine
Posts: 3595
Joined: Dec 1, '24

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Tangerine »

Brother Chad wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 05:46
This thread: western devs are pretentious wannabe auteurs

Actual western devs: shits out underbaked corporate slop with zero artistic merit

lol
Both can be, and are, true.
User avatar
Dunadan
Posts: 239
Joined: May 8, '24

Geolocation

Post by Dunadan »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 01:08
it's not tacticool enough for him anymore.
Is he playing Arma now?
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Imagine what gaming would be like if Eidos was satisfied with selling 1m copies of each Deus Ex game.
User avatar
Rand
Posts: 6640
Joined: Sep 4, '23
Location: On my last legs

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Rand »

J1M wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 16:06
Imagine what gaming would be like if Eidos was satisfied with selling 1m copies of each Deus Ex game.
Corporate gaming is a blight on the culture and art.
You may as well not bother replying to my posts if it's to argue anything except concrete facts or your personal opinion. I still probably won't see it.
Reject your retarded-wing political programming and learn to think.
If you can.
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45473
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

Rand wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 17:33
J1M wrote: ↑ January 28th, 2025, 16:06
Imagine what gaming would be like if Eidos was satisfied with selling 1m copies of each Deus Ex game.
Corporate gaming is a blight on the culture and art.
microsoft marketing department is the reason fable didn't have two ugly black lesbians kissing on the cover
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection