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Pantheon: EA Release

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Pantheon: EA Release

Post by Xenich »

I changed this around a bit to just list the build notes so I can follow their progression and timeline to updates more easily instead of trying to do a general feature comment and listing.

I think it would better serve:

1) showing if they are actually progressing.
2) Information in more detail about the changes over time essentially from the horses mouth (I will try to keep it updated as they roll out).
► Build 0.15.18, Released: 25th Oct,2024 (Hot fix: 0.14.977)
► Build 0.15.189, Released: 11th Nov,2024
► Build 0.15.338, Released: 23th Nov,2024
► Build 0.15.523, Released: 10th Dec,2024
► Build 0.15.527, Released: 11th Dec,2024
► Build 0.15.547, Released: 19th Dec,2024
► Build 0.15.554, Released: 20th Dec,2024
► Build 0.15.648 Released: 14th Jan, 2025
► Build 0.15.591 Released: January 4, 2025
► Build 0.15.652C Released: January 22, 2025 Data only
► Build 0.15.837 Released: February 6, 2025
Last edited by Xenich on February 7th, 2025, 17:57, edited 18 times in total.

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Post by rusty_shackleford »

It's now mostly positive in reviews
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Post by Xenich »

Yeah, over all it is a good game. That is, if you are playing it for what many of us old EQ/Vanguard types were looking for.

Don't take that for being "impressed", the fact is... they took far too long to get to where they are, but... the game hits the marks on the key features (so far, still have a lot to measure out).

So far, interface is functional and simplistic (needs some work though, as some windows I can't figure out how to resize and don't conform to other windows settings access).

First and 3rd person are smooth in movement and play, though I have noticed some key to reaction delays for commands, but I am not ruling out this could be on my side.

Combat is good, with a hybrid of EQ and vanguard style systems and the world looks fine for the graphics, though I do see how some could take issue with the various symmetry of the colors and models at times. Still, for me it isn't the focus, so I don't really care.

It has a basic journal system for your quests, and NPC dialogue is simple, though every NPC doesn't appear to have a merchant system to them in terms of selling goods (that I could see). The starter instance provides spells and special tomes, but doesn't allow selling back to them.

I have toyed with melee and a caster w/pet class, which functions fine and has all the traditional mannerisms this style of game is known for.

I wouldn't call the game "hard" at the noobie level (so far only level 2), but you can die if you don't pay attention and I expect this to ramp up with the levels. On that note, it is similar to EQ on release. If you take on a yellow, you are likely going to lose with most classes.

There is no hand holding on finding your way. Nothing leads you around, you have to explore and figure things out.

Crafting I hear is one craft profession only and once you pick it, at least so far as I know, that is it and it is tied to adventure level progression, so no EQ2 like concept where you have a crafter that is max level on a level 1 toon.

There are no shared banks or similar systems, single character focus.

World looks nice overall and has a good feeling.

Oh, and as for performance, I have to run medium settings to stay around 40-50 FPS, but that is triple screen at 7830 x 1440 resolution, which works well by the way with all the interface elements being movable mostly. There are two issues with this. The settings button that opens up to the base menus is in the far top left corner and can't be moved and the exp bar scaling seems to lock itself to a percentage of the overall screen width which means in a setup like this, the scale to 0 still has the exp bar spread past the middle monitor.

I don't care about the settings button (it is only used in rare occasions) and the exp bar while annoying is a thin bar so it really doesn't get in the way an will only be an issue due to my bevel adjustment making those areas hidden to view when exp is at that point.

Still, not the end of the world.
Last edited by Xenich on December 14th, 2024, 19:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Xenich »

Well, first "mainstream" compromise I ran into...

Death penalty.

Ok, a corpse run is pointless in 1/2 measure. The entire point of it is to create a sense of fear that MUST be attended to.

The traditional corpse run (ala EQ) was that you died and all of your items were left on the corpse, you spawned back at your bind point (only in cities) and either had to run back to collect them (naked, or if you had an extra set in the bank) or have someone resurrect you at your corpse. You still lost a healthy amount of EXP, and could de-level.

Pantheon:

You lose your bags (left on corpse), retain your equipped items, take a 1/2 bubble exp loss, and I am unclear if you de-level.

Problem with this is that it can be circumvented to reduce most of the risk or create a loss where, well it doesn't matter.

You can if you know you are going to a dangerous area, only... carry equipped items while on the venture. This way, you only lose EXP.

Now that may sound like still a bad thing, but... keep in mind "end game" concerning this. Once you reach cap, exp really isn't an issue (especially if you don't de-level, and even if you can, being at exp cap would only mean a exp that is going to be made regardless as you would have to lose a full level of exp before that became an issue).

So, all risk is mitigated at a very important point of the game. Exploration is no longer a risk, stupid play attempts are not discouraged, and simple trick tactics like "death porting" to bind become a viable option if you have no bags on you (ie you prepared for this).

This one I have to say is a bad mark on them, poor implementation.
Last edited by Xenich on December 14th, 2024, 23:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Nooneatall »

Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 20:57
Well, first "mainstream" compromise I ran into...

Death penalty.

Ok, a corpse run is pointless in 1/2 measure. The entire point of it is to create a sense of fear that MUST be attended to.

The traditional corpse run (ala EQ) was that you died and all of your items were left on the corpse, you spawned back at your bind point (only in cities) and either had to run back to collect them (naked, or if you had an extra set in the bank) or have someone resurrect you at your corpse. You still lost a healthy amount of EXP, and could de-level.

Pantheon:

You lose your bags, retain your equipped items, take a 1/2 bubble exp loss, and I am unclear if you de-level.

Problem with this is that it can be circumvented to reduce most of the risk or create a loss where, well it doesn't matter.

You can if you know you are going to a dangerous area, only... carry equipped items while on the venture. This way, you only lose EXP.

Now that may sound like still a bad thing, but... keep in mind "end game" concerning this. Once you reach cap, exp really isn't an issue (especially if you don't de-level, and even if you can, being at exp cap would only mean a exp that is going to be made regardless as you would have to lose a full level of exp before that became an issue).

So, all risk is mitigated at a very important point of the game. Exploration is no longer a risk, stupid play attempts are not discouraged, and simple trick tactics like "death porting" to bind become a viable option if you have no bags on you (ie you prepared for this).

This one I have to say is a bad mark on them, poor implementation.
When you die the developers should personally come to your house and do **** and ball torture on you until you get back to your corpse. That's what a real video game would do.
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Post by Xenich »

Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:44
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 20:57
Well, first "mainstream" compromise I ran into...

Death penalty.

Ok, a corpse run is pointless in 1/2 measure. The entire point of it is to create a sense of fear that MUST be attended to.

The traditional corpse run (ala EQ) was that you died and all of your items were left on the corpse, you spawned back at your bind point (only in cities) and either had to run back to collect them (naked, or if you had an extra set in the bank) or have someone resurrect you at your corpse. You still lost a healthy amount of EXP, and could de-level.

Pantheon:

You lose your bags, retain your equipped items, take a 1/2 bubble exp loss, and I am unclear if you de-level.

Problem with this is that it can be circumvented to reduce most of the risk or create a loss where, well it doesn't matter.

You can if you know you are going to a dangerous area, only... carry equipped items while on the venture. This way, you only lose EXP.

Now that may sound like still a bad thing, but... keep in mind "end game" concerning this. Once you reach cap, exp really isn't an issue (especially if you don't de-level, and even if you can, being at exp cap would only mean a exp that is going to be made regardless as you would have to lose a full level of exp before that became an issue).

So, all risk is mitigated at a very important point of the game. Exploration is no longer a risk, stupid play attempts are not discouraged, and simple trick tactics like "death porting" to bind become a viable option if you have no bags on you (ie you prepared for this).

This one I have to say is a bad mark on them, poor implementation.
When you die the developers should personally come to your house and do **** and ball torture on you until you get back to your corpse. That's what a real video game would do.
Funny, but you understand the mechanic short fall right?
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Post by Nooneatall »

Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:59
Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:44
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 20:57
Well, first "mainstream" compromise I ran into...

Death penalty.

Ok, a corpse run is pointless in 1/2 measure. The entire point of it is to create a sense of fear that MUST be attended to.

The traditional corpse run (ala EQ) was that you died and all of your items were left on the corpse, you spawned back at your bind point (only in cities) and either had to run back to collect them (naked, or if you had an extra set in the bank) or have someone resurrect you at your corpse. You still lost a healthy amount of EXP, and could de-level.

Pantheon:

You lose your bags, retain your equipped items, take a 1/2 bubble exp loss, and I am unclear if you de-level.

Problem with this is that it can be circumvented to reduce most of the risk or create a loss where, well it doesn't matter.

You can if you know you are going to a dangerous area, only... carry equipped items while on the venture. This way, you only lose EXP.

Now that may sound like still a bad thing, but... keep in mind "end game" concerning this. Once you reach cap, exp really isn't an issue (especially if you don't de-level, and even if you can, being at exp cap would only mean a exp that is going to be made regardless as you would have to lose a full level of exp before that became an issue).

So, all risk is mitigated at a very important point of the game. Exploration is no longer a risk, stupid play attempts are not discouraged, and simple trick tactics like "death porting" to bind become a viable option if you have no bags on you (ie you prepared for this).

This one I have to say is a bad mark on them, poor implementation.
When you die the developers should personally come to your house and do **** and ball torture on you until you get back to your corpse. That's what a real video game would do.
Funny, but you understand the mechanic short fall right?
No I'm not 60 years old
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Post by Xenich »

Apparently wizards have an interesting mechanic of using element pools for types of spells. So if you are using a spell that is specific to an element and that spell runs out the resource of that element, it starts pulling from the other element pools at higher cost. Once those pools are depleted, it starts pulling from your health which means you can ************* spamming too hard.

It will be interesting to see if this mechanic stays in with the mainstreamers complaining about it being "horrible game design". Add in the complaints about no map/minimap (man they are insufferable little ******* complaining about this) and based on their lack of being able to hold to a set of goals in the past, I have a feeling that these will be things they cave to.

To be honest, I don't have any real "hope" for the game, they just have a bad track record and they don't seem to understand why they were supported in the first place.

I think their biggest failure will be trying to cater to two crowds rather than focusing solidly on one and letting the tried and true concepts bring in people slowly over time.

Or... gaming could be dead and all we have are a bunch of ****** and kiddies who love to cheat their games.

At least Monsters and Memories is dedicated to a very specific focus, hopefully that turns out well.
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Post by Xenich »

Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:40
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:59
Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:44


When you die the developers should personally come to your house and do **** and ball torture on you until you get back to your corpse. That's what a real video game would do.
Funny, but you understand the mechanic short fall right?
No I'm not 60 years old
You do realize the bulk of MMO gamers from that era were Gen Xers right?
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Post by Nooneatall »

Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:43
Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:40
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 21:59


Funny, but you understand the mechanic short fall right?
No I'm not 60 years old
You do realize the bulk of MMO gamers from that era were Gen Xers right?
Generation X, typically defined as people born between 1961 and 1981, will have an average age of around 47-54 years old in 2025, considering the age range of this generation.

My apologies I'm a few years off.
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Post by Xenich »

Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:49
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:43
Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:40


No I'm not 60 years old
You do realize the bulk of MMO gamers from that era were Gen Xers right?
Generation X, typically defined as people born between 1961 and 1981, will have an average age of around 47-54 years old in 2025, considering the age range of this generation.

My apologies I'm a few years off.
No worries, I just think it odd when I see people throw around "Boomer shooter" and things like that when it was predominately Gen-X that was playing them.
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Post by Nooneatall »

Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:51
Nooneatall wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:49
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:43


You do realize the bulk of MMO gamers from that era were Gen Xers right?
Generation X, typically defined as people born between 1961 and 1981, will have an average age of around 47-54 years old in 2025, considering the age range of this generation.

My apologies I'm a few years off.
No worries, I just think it odd when I see people throw around "Boomer shooter" and things like that when it was predominately Gen-X that was playing them.
Its hard to be a **** and troll you because you are always reasonable. I will go find someone else to harass
Last edited by Nooneatall on December 14th, 2024, 22:54, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I didn't like that corpses could expire in EQ, losing all your stuff SUCKS.
It's already your top priority just to get your stuff back, no need to add a timer to it.
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:58
I didn't like that corpses could expire in EQ, losing all your stuff SUCKS.
It's already your top priority just to get your stuff back, no need to add a timer to it.
Yeah, not talking about that...

Brad said that was a technical limitation, not a feature.

Nobody liked that, it was unreasonable and a complete imbalance of risk vs reward.
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Post by Xenich »

Well, here is another tidbit I found out. Way back many years ago, server rule sets were discussed which came up because a lot of the old school players were arguing over things like naked corpse runs and the like.

It is confirmed, server rule sets in this nature are on the plate (just not an EA priority). So there is some hope for an authentic "old school" rule set in the future.

That also means they could make a "casual tard" server for all the "muh entertainment" types, but we all know... those types won't play very long anyway and to be honest, I can already see them complaining like ****** about those wanting to play on the old school ones.

"Why can't you just play the game the way I want you to?"
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Post by J1M »

Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 23:20
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:58
I didn't like that corpses could expire in EQ, losing all your stuff SUCKS.
It's already your top priority just to get your stuff back, no need to add a timer to it.
Yeah, not talking about that...

Brad said that was a technical limitation, not a feature.

Nobody liked that, it was unreasonable and a complete imbalance of risk vs reward.
Sounds like a half truth. Like there technically needed to be a timeout but it could have been a week.
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Post by Xenich »

J1M wrote: December 15th, 2024, 00:32
Xenich wrote: December 14th, 2024, 23:20
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 14th, 2024, 22:58
I didn't like that corpses could expire in EQ, losing all your stuff SUCKS.
It's already your top priority just to get your stuff back, no need to add a timer to it.
Yeah, not talking about that...

Brad said that was a technical limitation, not a feature.

Nobody liked that, it was unreasonable and a complete imbalance of risk vs reward.
Sounds like a half truth. Like there technically needed to be a timeout but it could have been a week.
Possibly, I don't remember the details (memory limitation I want to say). I BS'd with Brad about it a long time ago, but that is the basic gist of it.
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Post by Xenich »

Well, I was kind of stoked they didn't have maps in the game, but... apparently they will have them, yet not as "bad" as it could be.

1. Hand drawn maps
2. No GPS
3. Map will be blank and reveal (I think on first exploration).

Still have to know your way around, but instead people opening up a site like EQ Atlas, the maps will be in game (though without all the details).

Not a fan, but... well... better than GPS bouncy ball crap.

Oh and corpse dragging is in of course as well a spells to sense corpse.

Night is dark, pitch black when there is no light source and even in torch lit cities, it is dark.
Last edited by Xenich on December 16th, 2024, 23:26, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 14th, 2024, 17:29
It's now mostly positive in reviews
It is actually improving. Was around 71% and has steadily rose to 78% now.

Various mix of reaction on the forums.

Most old school EQ types are fairly happy with it as it hits most of the key areas they were looking for.

Some disgruntled "supposed" pledgers who seem to want to tank the game no matter what.

And lastly, the mainstreamer ***** types whining about "accessibility" (ie detailed GPS maps, corpse runs, etc...) and claiming the game should be "casual friendly". Of course, throwing tantrums about people "gate keeping" them because they have the audacity to question their logic on various demands.

Over all though, the response is fairly positive.

I am not going to say they don't have their work cut out for them, but the game is fun to play, and has a lot of the EQ/Vanguard feel, so who knows if they can get their **** together and see it to fruition.

No skin off my teeth though, I was out the 50 bucks years ago when I pledged.

Oh, and there is some moron whining about how pledges get extra benefits (pledgers guild, pledger name plates, icons, etc...) claiming it is unfair they get extra content that nobody else can have? /sigh
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

@Xenich what server
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Post by Xenich »

I am on Axecutor, very low pop, but if you would like a higher pop, let me know... I am only around 4-5 on a few characters and it doesn't take long to get to 5.

If you plan to play, I will work around your choice to balance out for duoing. So up to you.
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Oh, by the way... the way they are telling you that a server cluster is full is giving you a name rejection, so if you get numerous names rejected, that is likely the case.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

already feel like this game is ruined by being walmart brand EQ
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:56
already feel like this game is ruined by being walmart brand EQ
You mean the look?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Xenich wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:58
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:56
already feel like this game is ruined by being walmart brand EQ
You mean the look?
decided to read a bit about the game and any complaint is met with "that's how it was in EQ!"
so
eh

why not just go play p1999 or something
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:59
Xenich wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:58
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:56
already feel like this game is ruined by being walmart brand EQ
You mean the look?
decided to read a bit about the game and any complaint is met with "that's how it was in EQ!"
so
eh

why not just go play p1999 or something
Well, I guess if you never played EQ that would be ok, but then if you have played all of EQ over and over and over, done all the raids, farmed all the mobs, etc... well... that would be the reason I guess.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Xenich wrote: December 18th, 2024, 02:00
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:59
Xenich wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:58


You mean the look?
decided to read a bit about the game and any complaint is met with "that's how it was in EQ!"
so
eh

why not just go play p1999 or something
Well, I guess if you never played EQ that would be ok, but then if you have played all of EQ over and over and over, done all the raids, farmed all the mobs, etc... well... that would be the reason I guess.
but it's just EQ with a new coat of paint, I don't see any new ideas, not even new classes(there's actually less and they seemingly play exactly like in EQ)
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 02:01
Xenich wrote: December 18th, 2024, 02:00
rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 01:59


decided to read a bit about the game and any complaint is met with "that's how it was in EQ!"
so
eh

why not just go play p1999 or something
Well, I guess if you never played EQ that would be ok, but then if you have played all of EQ over and over and over, done all the raids, farmed all the mobs, etc... well... that would be the reason I guess.
but it's just EQ with a new coat of paint, I don't see any new ideas, not even new classes(there's actually less and they seemingly play exactly like in EQ)
I mean, Pantheon was supposed to be a replacement for an EQ style game whether they want to admit it or not. From day one in the Pantheon forums, everyone discussed this, wanted this, expected this.

If you were looking for a next gen new feature rich completely different game in the next step of evolution of that style of play, yeah... not going to get it from Pantheon. More likely going to get a rehash of EQ/Vanguard with some slightly less hardships, in some new twists, and new content.

There are new things though with the climate system, climbing, etc... it isn't exactly as you say, but I agree it is close in many ways whether it be vanguard or EQ, a lot of that is there.
Last edited by Xenich on December 18th, 2024, 14:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

they even use EQ loading screen tips word for word
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Post by Xenich »

rusty_shackleford wrote: December 18th, 2024, 02:06
they even use EQ loading screen tips word for word
yep, and the CLI is the same, even spell names look very similar and act the same (though there are many differences).

Some spells you get way early, AOE stun for enchanter and man.. it has a huge range.

A lot of things the same, some small twists, but I haven't got into the higher levels to see the larger differences, but apparently there are.