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Junior Adventurer's Guild - October: Deus Ex + Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption SPOOKY HALLOWEEN DOUBLE FEATURE

Participate in a new RPG each month with other members of the HQ
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What game should we play in October?

Poll ended at September 30th, 2024, 22:47

Baldur's Gate
2
4%
Deus Ex
20
43%
Icewind Dale 2
2
4%
Knights of the Chalice
2
4%
Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption
20
43%
 
Total votes: 46

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Post by Trickster »

Luckmann wrote: October 21st, 2024, 17:28
Hasn't as much as commented on poor Serena since he woke up in the modern world.
Serena is absolutely waifu material. She has unironically spent more time with Christof than Anezka ever did. Not to mention that she saved his life in the Order's dungeon, helped him even when she didn't have to, and followed him into a battle against Tzimisce.
They should have brought her back along with Wilhem instead of adding some random Nosferatu to our party.
I refuse to believe that she died in a castle offscreen, and there's no way all the Cappadocians are gone. She's still out there, prowling the night, just not in England and America.

Image
Last edited by Trickster on October 21st, 2024, 18:36, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Finarfin »

Trickster wrote: October 21st, 2024, 18:25
Luckmann wrote: October 21st, 2024, 17:28
Hasn't as much as commented on poor Serena since he woke up in the modern world.
Serena is absolutely waifu material. She has unironically spent more time with Christof than Anezka ever did. Not to mention that she saved his life in the Order's dungeon, helped him even when she didn't have to, and followed him into a battle against Tzimisce.
They should have brought her back along with Wilhem instead of adding some random Nosferatu to our party.
I refuse to believe that she died in a castle offscreen, and there's no way all the Cappadocians are gone. She's still out there, prowling the night, just not in England and America.

Image
Serena still alive
Last edited by Finarfin on October 21st, 2024, 19:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Finarfin »

Is Deus Ex: Transcended good? Thinking about using that one for my run.
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Post by Finarfin »

Image
Image
Image
Managed to get to the guy with relative ease, was just a bit too slow to disable the traps and got gassed.
Didn't save Gunther cause **** that orange soda loving **** (WE ARE A LEMON-LIME COUNTRY!)
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Post by Tweed »

Luckmann wrote: October 21st, 2024, 17:28
Cringe AI goyslop won?
No one gets subtlety anymore.
Last edited by Tweed on October 22nd, 2024, 00:41, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Luckmann »

Finarfin wrote: October 21st, 2024, 19:15
Trickster wrote: October 21st, 2024, 18:25
Luckmann wrote: October 21st, 2024, 17:28
Hasn't as much as commented on poor Serena since he woke up in the modern world.
Serena is absolutely waifu material. She has unironically spent more time with Christof than Anezka ever did. Not to mention that she saved his life in the Order's dungeon, helped him even when she didn't have to, and followed him into a battle against Tzimisce.
They should have brought her back along with Wilhem instead of adding some random Nosferatu to our party.
I refuse to believe that she died in a castle offscreen, and there's no way all the Cappadocians are gone. She's still out there, prowling the night, just not in England and America.

Image
Serena still alive
Fifth Edition is gWoD, not oWoD. To me it's like saying that the Elder Brain of """BG""" """"3""" survived, because there's the Zerg Overmind in Starcraft. :|
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Post by Luckmann »

► Death to all urbanites
What a piece of ****.

Give me my ******* badge, @rusty_shackleford. :mad:
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Post by 1998 »

Don't forget to update your RPG ranking @Luckmann
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Post by SpellSword »

Victory!
► Ending Spoilers
► A Few Random Thoughts


Overall Game Rating For Vampire: The Masquerade - Redemption:
Image

I wish the developers had more time to polish it before release because although often it felt under cooked there were some fun moments throughout it. Considering Diablo 2 came out the same year I'm sure they were trying to compete with it. If nothing else the character inventory definitely felt inspired by Diablo.

The combat in this one isn't terrible or even really bad, it just doesn't live up to what was on offer at the time from its competitors. I was surprised that there wasn't a chance to settle the score with Pink after he escaped but on the whole the adventure and story itself was pretty good.



Trickster wrote: October 20th, 2024, 16:07
... I'm all for a classic hero like Christof, charming all vampiric ladies with his noble, brave, and kind nature. Much more enticing than a modern, spineless and mentally emasculated protagonist with a “body type 2”. ....
:knight-cross: Christof's noble personality was great. More honorable characters that aren't morally grey or out right secretly evil is something I'd like to see. "Have at thee fiend!"
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SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN!SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN! SPOOPY WIN!
► Show Spoiler
I like the part where Christof has two women fawning after him and he completely ignores both of them for a slut who only gets 2 minutes of screen time. I also like the part where when you frenzy you reload because yeah, **** that eight way to Sunday. The toughest boss in the game is the UI and the soundtrack is like two washing machines hatefucking each other. Most of the disciplines are useless, prison of ice and fire rain or flame rain whatever it is is OP as hell with lighting and claws being close seconds. Once I got dex up along with claws I was carving up stuff like Christmas ham.

I appreciate what they tried to do, there's some parts where I almost had fun, but then I remembered every dungeon was 3 or 4 levels of big square boxes with enemies tucked around corners and I stopped. You know you're having fun when you're trying to optimize dungeon clearing just because it's boring. Every gun except rocket launchers are worthless and even those are highly questionable. Overall, there's a good reason why people don't talk about this game and I want to remind everyone that I tried to save us all from this.
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Post by Oyster Sauce »

@Tweed @Element @SpellSword @Luckmann nominate a game for next month


@1998 - Dragon Age: Origins
@Trickster - Jade Empire
@Finarfin - Mass Effect
Using these from the other thread unless you've changed your minds. Also, tell me if I missed someone this month.
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Post by 1998 »

What better way to celebrate that clusterfuck that is DA4 than by playing DAO? If we all play it, we might even beat their concurrent player count.
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Post by Finarfin »

I find it funny that each of the nominated games are Bioware games, lol.
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Post by Luckmann »

Oyster Sauce wrote: October 25th, 2024, 16:09
@Tweed @Element @SpellSword @Luckmann nominate a game for next month

@1998 - Dragon Age: Origins
@Trickster - Jade Empire
@Finarfin - Mass Effect
Using these from the other thread unless you've changed your minds. Also, tell me if I missed someone this month.
I'm going to be a boring fucko and throw my nomination behind @Trickster's nomination of Jade Empire, because I haven't played it in so long, and I remember it as an excellent game, and I can't think of anything anyway. I think it's a great suggestion. :heart:
1998 wrote: October 25th, 2024, 16:12
What better way to celebrate that clusterfuck that is DA4 than by playing DAO? If we all play it, we might even beat their concurrent player count.
****, that's actually true, too. Still, last I heard, they're going to be giving the game out for free via the nVidia thing or something to boost player counts to avoid another Concord, so even if the game is abject trash I don't think we'd actually beat them.

I get that you were joking about that last part, but these days you just don't ******* know. :lol:
Last edited by Luckmann on October 25th, 2024, 18:58, edited 1 time in total.
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I'll vote with @Element, System Shock 2 sounds good. Image
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SpellSword wrote: October 26th, 2024, 11:47
I'll vote with @Element, System Shock 2 sounds good. Image
Well it'd give everyone a chance to catch up on other games, Shock 2 is short. RSD has another excellent mod that I can recommend even for first-timers.

As for me I nominate Undertalerail.
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Anyone playing Deus Ex that is experiencing a large frame drop while looking at certain locations may want to try switching "Texture Color Depth" from 16Bit to 32Bit in the "Display Settings" menu. That fixed the problem on my end.
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Post by Kowe »

Bit late because health issues delayed the play-through, but here is my progress on GMDX:

Early game choices for a stealth-focused and pacifist build:
► Show Spoiler
Interesting how the game drops info on the Gray Death which shows parallels to COVID-19:
► Show Spoiler
Currently trying to flex on the last boss with something:
► Show Spoiler
Carrying Maggie Auw to him, she is still unconscious as we are on the American navy ship. Paul didn't like me bringing her to him as a present in Hong Kong so he ran away. An earlier save had to be loaded as Tong & Co. turned hostile. Still, this gives me the idea to carry some other NPCs throughout missions, like Manderley, and see how stupid it can get. Pretty sweet of the developers to allow us to kill Anna too, as she is an israeli.

Update:

Got to the Ocean Lab, just missing the Missile Silo, Area 51 and the Ending. The run will be finished tomorrow. Maggie Auw is still unconscious.
► Show Spoiler
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Post by gerey »

Back when I first played DX1, all the way back in 2001, I picked the Helios ending and felt it was the best ending choice out of all of them.

Over time, I oscillated between its ending and Tracer Tong's "man-made horrors beyond comprehension" take, before finally realizing that there's no putting the genie back into the bottle once it's out.

Helios may mean well, but for all intents and purposes it is an alien intelligence, and a complete unknown. We have no way of knowing what it will decide to do down the line (and it could be lying). It certainly does make a good arguments, but it also purports that making decisions based solely on cold, hard logic is the best way to govern, which didn't sit well with me, since I easily trace my way to the obvious end of that path - reason without empathy and morality to temper it never ends well.

Tong's decision to cast the whole of humanity back thousands of years technologically is no solution either - we'll either be stuck in the Dark Ages forever, or if we claw our way back out, all the cautionary lessons gained from stopping Page will have been forgotten, and humans will be poised to make the same mistakes all over again.

The Illuminati are not innocent, but at the very least they've prevented humanity from annihilating itself while they were in power, and with experience and wisdom gained from the MJ12 debacle, they can slowly ease humanity into an era of replicators and advanced AIs. I don't think they're the ideal choice, not by a long shot, but at the end of the day they are the least radical pick, and I'm perfectly willing to hedge my bets when it comes to the future of the species as a whole.
► Show Spoiler
Image
Kowe wrote: October 27th, 2024, 14:19
Interesting how the game drops info on the Gray Death which shows parallels to COVID-19:
The really funny part is that most of the plot elements of DX1 come from late 1990s conspiracy theories. Little did the writers know just how much the internet schizos got right, and how they'd be vindicated in the decades to come.

Not to cast shade on the writing - for all the goofiness of some aspects of DX1, the writing is phenomenal. I recall people masturbating themselves into a stupor about the monologue the AI at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 gave, despite the fact that DX1's Morpheus had a far more eloquent, concise and better written take years prior, to say nothing about all the other commentary about politics, religion, technology and humanity as a whole.

Most games can only dream to have as much well-written content, from dialogues to readables, as DX1 had.
Last edited by gerey on October 28th, 2024, 21:41, edited 3 times in total.
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Post by Kowe »

gerey wrote: October 28th, 2024, 21:33
Kowe wrote: October 27th, 2024, 14:19
Interesting how the game drops info on the Gray Death which shows parallels to COVID-19:
The really funny part is that most of the plot elements of DX1 come from late 1990s conspiracy theories. Little did the writers know just how much the internet schizos got right, and how they'd be vindicated in the decades to come.

Not to cast shade on the writing - for all the goofiness of some aspects of DX1, the writing is phenomenal. I recall people masturbating themselves into a stupor about the monologue the AI at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2 gave, despite the fact that DX1's Morpheus had a far more eloquent, concise and better written take years prior, to say nothing about all the other commentary about politics, religion, technology and humanity as a whole.

Most games can only dream to have as much well-written content, from dialogues to readables, as DX1 had.
So far, the Schizos have a wonderful track record of being right. Maybe one of them is secretly an advanced AI which considers certain government elements to be terrorists ? :lol:
The writing of the game is definitely one of its stronger aspects. So is the the game design with the tools, to have more than one option with how to tackle missions. Add to that how exploration is often rewarded.

Final Update for this playthrough on GMDX:

There were grays in Area 51 so Page couldn't see Maggie again. She made it in time to wake up to a new JC Denton. Did sleep long during the trips from Hong Kong to NYC to Paris to the North-West Coast and lastly Area 51. Hopefully she isn't dead.
► Show Spoiler
Ending Choice
► Show Spoiler
Verdict: 3.5/5 or 4/5. Leaning more towards the latter even with the bad taste left by the last mission and the Missile Silo before.
The endings all have their pros and cons, there is no clear answer as to which is best. This is good as it means the story is open-ended and ripe for imagination with how it continues. Putting DE:IW aside.
Given how Humans are, on average, the Helios ending made the most sense. Humans require a strong hand and being logic-based in the decision-making is 100 % a better choice than being emotion-based. JC has also been someone who hardly kills anyone in my playthrough, so he would be a benevolent dictator.
About the gameplay, utilizing Stealth-focused skills and perks has been lots of fun though it lost its effectiveness towards the end. Cloak (F4, Subdermal) is a must for the Stealth-build. It helped knocking some enemies unconscious at tricky spots or allowed going for a quick knockdown (when grouped). Other useful Augmentations have been Run Silent (F7, Legs), Regeneration (F9, Torso), Environmental Resistance (F11, Torso). Vision Enhancement (F8, Eyes) isn't bad but not a must. Hardly used it, to be honest. All in all, Cloak and Run Silent are the only necessary Augmentations for Stealth.
Definitely requires more playthroughs to get a detailed impression of the various character building options. One of them has to be with a weapon-focused build just mowing down enemies.
To summarize, the time on it has been enjoyable and it is still a good game. For the most part. I still hate the grays and spiderbots. The game can also benefit from turning Chad and Everett White.
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I've made it to Paris and the journey has been great so far. Image

Wikipedia wrote:
After Looking Glass Technologies and Origin Systems released Ultima Underworld II: Labyrinth of Worlds in January 1993, producer Warren Spector began to plan Troubleshooter, the game that would become Deus Ex. In his 1994 proposal, he described the concept as "Underworld-style first-person action" in a real-world setting with "big-budget, nonstop action". After Spector and his team were laid off from Looking Glass, John Romero of Ion Storm offered him the chance to make his "dream game" without any restrictions.
Looking Glass Studios.jpg
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Post by gerey »

GMDX tries to alleviate many of the game's underlaying issues, and is more successful with some than others. Admittedly, I think I borked the installation of Sarge's stuff on top of RSD's hotfix, so there may have been issues there, but I think it's genuinely impossible to balance the game out in a satisfactory way without far more radical changes it.

As an example, there's very little reason to pick augs like Combat Speed over Microfibral Muscle - the former speeds up reloading and attack speed with melee weapons, but the later not only allows you to weaponize crates and barrels, but opens up far more avenues of exploration you wouldn't otherwise have.

Or Spy Drone vs A.D.S. - one grants you a defacto infinite supply of EMP "missiles" you can use to trivialize bots and the more dangerous humanoid enemies with, the other protection against enemies armed with powerful weapons you are incentivized against confronting head-on anyway.

Or Run Silent and Speed Enhancement - I never really found a good-enough reason to wish for quicker stealth movement, especially with how deaf and blind the AI generally is, while Speed Enhancement lets me move faster, be able to cushion my fall and, most importantly, lets me leap further. Admittedly, there was also no point in the game where I felt I needed anything but the first level for this aug either.

Many of the other augs are made mostly redundant by one skill, Environmental, that lets you carry more gadgets and use them for longer - so you gain ballistic protection, environmental protection, longer oxygen supply underwater, echolocation of enemies and stealth against both machines and humans for the price of some inventory space and skill points.

Then there's the elephant in the room, the fact that Rifles is the single best combat skill in the game, granting you access to the sniper rifle, shotgun and assault rifle (which also has a grenade launcher). Pistols are good weapons, but ammo supply will become an issue towards the end, compared to the shotgun and assault rifle, while heavier weapons take up far too much inventory space, and have far too little ammo to justify lugging more than one around (which is always going to be the GEP).

Low-Tech has its uses, and becomes very powerful later on, once you get your hands on the Dragon Sword, but MIBs and robots exploding when killed becomes an issue.

I also agree with Kowe, a few of the maps towards the end (submarine base/ocean lab/gas station/silo) feel like pointless padding that adds very little to the game, and tend to be far too cramped and linear to be enjoyable. Area 51 also isn't particularly fun to play.

Additionally, I agree that the prevalence of enemies equipped with plasma weapons near the end makes going loud an ill-advised endeavor in the last 1/3 of the game.
Last edited by gerey on October 29th, 2024, 15:38, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Finarfin »

Image
Image

Very good game. Though I said **** stealth and was jumping, slicing and shooting my way to Page.

Gimme badge.
Last edited by Finarfin on October 30th, 2024, 12:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by SpellSword »

Victory!
Image
► Ending Spoilers
► A Few Random Thoughts
Overall Game Rating For Deus Ex:
:5of5:

Despite the flawed last few levels overall Deus Ex lives up to its reputation as a very high quality game.
J1M wrote: October 27th, 2024, 03:17
I probably don't get a vote but Deus Ex 2 should go on the menu at some point.
Is the sequel Deus Ex: Invisible War as good as the first one? Image
[img]Deus Ex Invisible War.png[/img]
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SpellSword wrote: October 30th, 2024, 15:44
Victory!
Image
► Ending Spoilers
► A Few Random Thoughts
Overall Game Rating For Deus Ex:
:5of5:

Despite the flawed last few levels overall Deus Ex lives up to its reputation as a very high quality game.
J1M wrote: October 27th, 2024, 03:17
I probably don't get a vote but Deus Ex 2 should go on the menu at some point.
Is the sequel Deus Ex: Invisible War as good as the first one? Image
Image
It is generally viewed as the greatest disappointment in gaming of all time. This is correct. It did not live up to impossibly high expectations. It does, however, compare favorably with immersive sims released in the last decade. If you enjoy the genre, your only real option is to look to the past.

Top 3 problems in Deus Ex 2:
-Studio head Warren Spector decided that the lead SKU for the sequel to the greatest PC game ever made should be the Xbox console. (Even if market realities meant the game needed a console release, it could have been ported.)

-Warren Spector insisted on trying to ship a game with 100% real-time lighting in 2003. (Even 21 years later this would be ill-advised due to the technical tradeoffs required. Which manifested most clearly as extremely small levels with long load times when combined with the previous point.)

-Praise from the first game led to designers high on their own supply. Systems received rounds of changes that led to overly-abstract "solutions". (For example, the round UI "because eyes are round" or all guns sharing the same ammo type. This left less time for the designers to craft memorable levels.)

TLDR: It is better than its reputation and the game industry peaked over 20 years ago.
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SpellSword wrote: October 30th, 2024, 15:44

Is the sequel Deus Ex: Invisible War as good as the first one? Image
Image
Yes.
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J1M wrote: October 30th, 2024, 16:05
TLDR: It is better than its reputation and the game industry peaked over 20 years ago.
No, it's not.
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Post by Jordy »

Where's my badge for not finishing Deus Ex?