Can you make a great rpg even if characters do not have inventories?

[NotAI]

Inspired by a recent post:

Can you make a great rpg where characters do not have inventories?

Like characters in this world just don't have pockets. Maybe they all wear dresses. But also can't be bothered to wear backpacks, fanny packs, and purses just don't exist. (Or some other world-class video-game writing to justify it.)

Or is this an impossible quest?

Why or why not?

[Tweed]

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

[rusty_shackleford]

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

those games have inventories?

[Tweed]

those games have inventories?

They all have inventories, they all have you carry things, they all have space for items.

Ergo: You cannot make a great RPG if you characters do not have inventories.

[rusty_shackleford]

those games have inventories?

They all have inventories, they all have you carry things, they all have space for items.

Can you make a great rpg where characters do not have inventories?

???

[Shillitron]

those games have inventories?

They all have inventories, they all have you carry things, they all have space for items.

Can you make a great rpg where characters do not have inventories?

???

No.

[Jordy]

I can't.

[1998]

No, inventories are essential. Can't think of a game without inventories I would call an RPG.

[swbgtoc]

Of course you can. What do you need items for anyway? +1 in a stat? I prefer powers inherent to my character anyway, not borrowed ones. Advance the story? Dialogues suffice.
Just have a guy pick up his balls and a sword and travel, looking for something or someone, doing the dirty laundry of nobles for information or a favor, paying his stay at inns directly with the head of wanted criminals, like Zoro.

► Show Spoiler

Want role playing elements? Have three classes: swordsman, magic swordsman, sneaky swordsman

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

No, inventories are essential. Can't think of a game without inventories I would call an RPG.

He said "can you do it?", not "does it exist?"

[Tweed]

Of course you can. What do you need items for anyway? +1 in a stat? I prefer powers inherent to my character anyway, not borrowed ones. Advance the story? Dialogues suffice.
Just have a guy pick up his balls and a sword and travel, looking for something or someone, doing the dirty laundry of nobles for information or a favor, paying his stay at inns directly with the head of wanted criminals, like Zoro.

► Show Spoiler

Want role playing elements? Have three classes: swordsman, magic swordsman, sneaky swordsman

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

No, inventories are essential. Can't think of a game without inventories I would call an RPG.

He said "can you do it?", not "does it exist?"

[Nooneatall]

Of course you can. What do you need items for anyway? +1 in a stat? I prefer powers inherent to my character anyway, not borrowed ones. Advance the story? Dialogues suffice.
Just have a guy pick up his balls and a sword and travel, looking for something or someone, doing the dirty laundry of nobles for information or a favor, paying his stay at inns directly with the head of wanted criminals, like Zoro.

► Show Spoiler

Want role playing elements? Have three classes: swordsman, magic swordsman, sneaky swordsman

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

No, inventories are essential. Can't think of a game without inventories I would call an RPG.

He said "can you do it?", not "does it exist?"

Skyrim could have worked without an inventory but it's a **** game.

[swbgtoc]

Skyrim could have worked without an inventory but it's a **** game.

Fix its writing, its combat and a few details and you have a good RPG that doesn't need an inventory.

[ArcaneLurker]

A good one? Probably not.

How would you manage equipment without any kind of inventory UI?
At the very least, you need some way of unequipping things that you equipped via interacting with the world.

Imagine trying to implement ranged weapons, ammunitions or explosives without an inventory, or even 'pockets.'
I can only picture an immersive sim, like VR games. If your weapon is sheathed, you could pick something up and see your character physically hold it in his hands. Interaction wheels could pop up when interacting with various items, as to equip something or just carry it around. A button or action triggers the use of equipped ammunition...

But why would you want to remove that feature anyway?

[Element]

I presume by lack of inventory you mean lack of gear as well? ie. you don't get to pick your armour set?

I think that it could be done, but I don't know of any examples of it being done. You would need a very in depth combat system, magic system, and a highly interactive world that would act as a substitute. The combat would need to offer one order of magnitude more options relative to standard rpgs in order to be competitive. Instead of simply rolling for hit and damage with a handful of special moves, you'd need a system that would simulate 'real' combat to a higher degree of accuracy. Unarmed alone could include grappling, throws, joint locks, and a lot of options in what to target. The damage system would need to reflect this. Instead of just HP, perhaps there are dozens of status effects - broken bones, specific muscle tears etc. - that would affect your own abilities. Take an arrow to the chest and your lungs give out when you try to sprint; stop the club with your shield but your arm goes numb, and so on. It could also work the world interactivity in organically eg. the combat is highly dependent on the environment. Press your enemy into a patch of exposed tree roots and he's likely to trip without seeing them. Get cornered against a house wall and your character can no longer swing the claymore with the same force. This would offset some of the loss of build variety that the game is handicapped with.

[swbgtoc]

How would you manage equipment without any kind of inventory UI?
At the very least, you need some way of unequipping things that you equipped via interacting with the world.

I'd see it like in Hitman. You can interact with gear on the world or on a guy you killed, trade your outfit. Just not store an armor in your pocket.

Imagine trying to implement ranged weapons, ammunition or explosives without an inventory, or even 'pockets.'

Every fps has ammunition and doesn't need inventories. Now if you even count the ammo count as an inventory there are still workarounds, magic arrows, or picking up arrows in your off-hand and throwing away the bow when you're out.

But why would you want to remove that feature anyway?

Limitations breed creativity.

[ArcaneLurker]

I'd see it like in Hitman. You can interact with gear on the world or on a guy you killed, trade your outfit. Just not store an armor in your pocket.

I tend to like having more customisation in RPGs.

Every fps has ammunition and doesn't need inventories. Now if you even count the ammo count as an inventory there are still workarounds, magic arrows, or picking up arrows in your off-hand and throwing away the bow when you're out.

Yeah, could work like an FPS. But you're more constrained in what tools you have access to at once time. I'd say an FPS still has "pockets" though.
Something like DOOM could work, and then keys or money can also work in a similar way.

Limitations breed creativity.

I understand it's a creativity exercise, but there's no real benefit to it aside from that.

Deus Ex (2000) Inventory
Baldur's Gate (1998) Inventory
Fallout (1997) Inventory
Daggerfall (1996) Inventory
Darklands (1992) Inventory
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (1981) Inventory
Moria (1977) Inventory

Nope, not looking good here.

Ah, Jedi Outcast didn't have inventories, right?

[Xenich]

Inspired by a recent post:

Can you make a great rpg where characters do not have inventories?

Like characters in this world just don't have pockets. Maybe they all wear dresses. But also can't be bothered to wear backpacks, fanny packs, and purses just don't exist. (Or some other world-class video-game writing to justify it.)

Or is this an impossible quest?

Why or why not?

Sure..

Character development is entirely focused on point/token/powerup/etc... acquisition. Those are used to unlock and progress trees/skills/attributes/abilities/etc.. The lore/story could focus on the characters development without tools/gear/etc... collected in a way that makes sense.

The entire game then is focused on completing objectives which rewards those elements (special, basic, etc...) to spend on the characters development as such without ever having to collect physical objects to store/sell/manage.

Maybe an example would be a game where the player has mental abilities that allows them to create/summon/materialize/shape their tools as needed (ie shaping their arm into a weapon, tool, etc..) which is developed by the way they spend their advancement within their character development.

Result, complete RPG development and progression without an inventory.

[wndrbr]

I think it is possible, you just have to pick a certain theme for your game that would explain the reason your character never uses any weapons. Like, maybe you're playing as a wild animal. Wild animals can't carry anything, but they can have stats and skills like endurance/strength/agility/critical strike etc etc. Or maybe you're playing as a shaolin monk who never changes his robes for armor and never uses any weapons except for his legs and fists. Did Jade Empire had inventory? I forgot. That game was barely an rpg, but still.

The question is - why would you limit yourself like that?

[rusty_shackleford]

I think it is possible, you just have to pick a certain theme for your game that would explain the reason your character never uses any weapons. Like, maybe you're playing as a wild animal. Wild animals can't carry anything, but they can have stats and skills like endurance/strength/agility/critical strike etc etc. Or maybe you're playing as a shaolin monk who never changes his robes for armor and never uses any weapons except for his legs and fists. Did Jade Empire had inventory? I forgot. That game was barely an rpg, but still.

The question is - why would you limit yourself like that?

Ah, good point.
"great" is debatable(the people who play it seem to love it going by review scores), but here's an example OP:


The AE actually doesn't have EXP anymore, but has a new system where you get perks based on your survival.

[wndrbr]

Need doggy rating.

[Manny V]

I think it is possible, you just have to pick a certain theme for your game that would explain the reason your character never uses any weapons. Like, maybe you're playing as a wild animal. Wild animals can't carry anything, but they can have stats and skills like endurance/strength/agility/critical strike etc etc. Or maybe you're playing as a shaolin monk who never changes his robes for armor and never uses any weapons except for his legs and fists. Did Jade Empire had inventory? I forgot. That game was barely an rpg, but still.

The question is - why would you limit yourself like that?

Ah, good point.
"great" is debatable(the people who play it seem to love it going by review scores), but here's an example OP:


The AE actually doesn't have EXP anymore, but has a new system where you get perks based on your survival.

lmao the fuckin certified furry game

[ArcaneLurker]

Jade Empire has 'fighting styles,' which includes equipping a blunderbuss. Aside from that, I can't remember an inventory system.

Jedi outcast is more like an Action game, like Force Unleashed, neither of them have typical RPG Inventory systems.

So it's possible, but I'd say what makes an RPG an RPG is the variety of ways a player can interact with the world, experiment, or solve problems, and removing items/ inventories is a limitation which makes the attempt of an RPG, more like an action/ FPS game.

[Xenich]

I think it is possible, you just have to pick a certain theme for your game that would explain the reason your character never uses any weapons. Like, maybe you're playing as a wild animal. Wild animals can't carry anything, but they can have stats and skills like endurance/strength/agility/critical strike etc etc. Or maybe you're playing as a shaolin monk who never changes his robes for armor and never uses any weapons except for his legs and fists. Did Jade Empire had inventory? I forgot. That game was barely an rpg, but still.

The question is - why would you limit yourself like that?

Yeah, that was what I was getting at. The entire progression of development could be handled internally with various development progression be it trees, skill points, etc... that expand abilities (ie increases defense abilities, offensive abilities, etc..)

Storage is just a mechanic to facilitate character progression, I don't think it is required to achieve the same result through other means.

This begs the question for those who disagree though and would be key in establishing a list of "required" elements that make a game an RPG. So would an inventory in ANY game be an RPG? Adventure games have inventories? So if not, then I would think that inventories are not the defining characteristic of an RPG.

[NotAI]

"Jade Empire has 'fighting styles,' which includes equipping a blunderbuss. Aside from that, I can't remember an inventory system."

Jade Empire is a good point. Forgot about that. (Actually I forgot about this thread I started.)

[Luckmann]

Can you make a great RPG even if characters do not have inventories?

I'd argue no.
While it's debatable how much of an inventory there needs to be, I think a fundamental part of RPGs is that you're playing a specific role, and part of doing that in earnest means acting as that character would reasonable have acted based upon your interpretation of that character. And the more I think about it, the more I feel like what you're wearing and carrying with you (literally or figuratively) is a big part of that.

Ideally, if the character sees a knife, they should be able to pick that knife up.
And, subsequently, when they get to a point where using a knife would be a good idea from the perspective of that character, they should be able to use it.
Ergo, whether it's an explicit system or not, I feel that no, you can't make a great RPG if you cannot account for something like this, and if you can, that constitutes some kind of inventory.

[WhiteShark]

I would have said no, but @Xenich and @wndrbr convinced me that, given the right setting and protagonist, it could be done without. Nevertheless, an RPG is, at its core, a type of simulation, and, as such, unless there be a good reason for your character to never pick anything up, there ought be an inventory.

[Oyster Sauce]

Witcher 1 would have been better without an inventory. You get like 1 new sword and 2 pieces of armor in that game, the rest is vendor trash worse than your default gear. It's also not a great RPG though.

[1998]

Witcher 1 would have been better without an inventory. You get like 1 new sword and 2 pieces of armor in that game, the rest is vendor trash worse than your default gear. It's also not a great RPG though.

What do you mean? Not a great RPG, or not a great game at all?

[Norfleet]

I would have said no, but @Xenich and @wndrbr convinced me that, given the right setting and protagonist, it could be done without. Nevertheless, an RPG is, at its core, a type of simulation, and, as such, unless there be a good reason for your character to never pick anything up, there ought be an inventory.

Well, if an "inventory" is defined as "a magic bag in which arbitrary items can be stuffed", then sure, it's entirely possible to make an RPG without an "inventory", where each item you pick up remains physically present and must be physically carried somewhere on your person. It probably wouldn't even be all that hard to make an RPG where you never bother to pick up random items, either. You wouldn't really need an "inventory" in a game set in the modern era or beyond, for instance, since there's no reason to need to take vendortrash: All the items would be generic, mass-produced stuff. If the character only has his personal weapon and the only items he ever interacts with are plot-specific tokens, he doesn't need an inventory bag.

[WhiteShark]

Well, if an "inventory" is defined as "a magic bag in which arbitrary items can be stuffed", then sure, it's entirely possible to make an RPG without an "inventory", where each item you pick up remains physically present and must be physically carried somewhere on your person.

That's still an inventory, just a highly simulationist one. In fact, I've heard that CDDA actually simulates pockets and other containers.