We have a Steam curator now. You should be following it. https://store.steampowered.com/curator/44994899-RPGHQ/
Chat client updated, if you have issues using chat press CTRL + SHIFT + R to force a hard refresh.

Final Fantasy XI

For RPGs that require a persistently online connection.
Ignore Topic
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

WhiteShark wrote: September 12th, 2024, 05:59
J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 05:43
Okay, I'm downloading this. Which classes are people playing? Probably going to start as a WHM since I was THF/WAR when I played decades ago.
I'm WAR/MNK currently and probably going to turn into SAM when I unlock it.
@Kalarion has talked about maining RDM later, but his current highest level job is MNK.
@Val the Moofia Boss has been playing DRK/DRG with us. I'm not sure what his main job really is.
@Shillitron is RDM, and I'm not sure if he's decided on a subjob.
@Finarfin is WAR (hasn't unlocked subjob yet), and I don't know what his plan is.
@Silver started as THF, but, as far as I know, she's only played once so far.
I don't expect to want to primarily heal. WHM is just a good subjob for other jobs I want to try like BST and BRD.

THF/WAR was what I played way back because I enjoyed the positioning and weapon skill combos. Pulling was also interesting because you dictated the pace of the group. Plus, taunt and perfect dodge was a nice hail mary to save the group.

EDIT: If you want to do this, start as WAR and switch to THF when you get a subjob. Level 10 THF/- is nobody's first choice for a group.
Last edited by J1M on September 12th, 2024, 16:24, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
Val the Moofia Boss
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 4198
Joined: Jun 3, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 11:03
Wait, can you actually play a paladin that is not a tank? If so I would definitely do that. I love playing Paladins.
Yes, a damage oriented paladin is possible. I have seen a greatsword wielding paladin before. For subjob you would either want warrior (for double attack passive and for the berserk ability which increases war damage), samurai (increased TP gain = use weaponskills more often), or ninja (access to dual wield).
User avatar
Finarfin
Connoisseur of Slop
Posts: 5020
Joined: May 20, '24
Location: Tirion upon Túna

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Finarfin »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:16
Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 11:03
Wait, can you actually play a paladin that is not a tank? If so I would definitely do that. I love playing Paladins.
Yes, a damage oriented paladin is possible. I have seen a greatsword wielding paladin before. For subjob you would either want warrior (for double attack passive and for the berserk ability which increases war damage), samurai (increased TP gain = use weaponskills more often), or ninja (access to dual wield).
You're a saint, because I really want to play one but @Kalarion said they are THE tanks of XI and then I was disappointed. Ok, so I'll keep playing Warrior, then unlock paladin and samurai since I do think using weaponskills often is good.
Steam code: 10514930
My Reviews:
El Matador RECOMMENDED
Dungeons of Sundaria NOT RECOMMENDED
VLADiK BRUTAL
RECOMMENDED
Ultimate Zombie Defense 2 INFORMATIONAL
Deathless: The Hero Quest RECOMMENDED
Door Kickers 2 RECOMMENDED
Folklands INFORMATIONAL
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:23
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:16
Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 11:03
Wait, can you actually play a paladin that is not a tank? If so I would definitely do that. I love playing Paladins.
Yes, a damage oriented paladin is possible. I have seen a greatsword wielding paladin before. For subjob you would either want warrior (for double attack passive and for the berserk ability which increases war damage), samurai (increased TP gain = use weaponskills more often), or ninja (access to dual wield).
You're a saint, because I really want to play one but @Kalarion said they are THE tanks of XI and then I was disappointed. Ok, so I'll keep playing Warrior, then unlock paladin and samurai since I do think using weaponskills often is good.
Tell him NIN/WAR are better tanks because they are more expensive and cost = quality.
User avatar
Kalarion
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 2161
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Kalarion »

J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 05:43
Okay, I'm downloading this. Which classes are people playing? Probably going to start as a WHM since I was THF/WAR when I played decades ago.
I highly recommend against this. Start as either a WAR or MNK, you can switch to your preferred main after you've got subjobs unlocked.

Starting as anything else, but especially as any caster, is very painful. You have **** hp, do **** melee damage, can't afford to buy your full complement of spells immediately, and mana is a huge performance throttle.

Solo caster leveling is pure hell. Ask @Shillitron.

Edit - this is not to say, "don't play a caster". Just don't start as one. You can switch into a much easier caster leveling experience once you've got subjob and some money in your pocket.
Last edited by Kalarion on September 12th, 2024, 16:00, edited 1 time in total.
. wrote:
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
User avatar
Val the Moofia Boss
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 4198
Joined: Jun 3, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

A white mage main job is always going to be a healer, and healers are the most desired role for parties. As long as he can heal, he will get into parties, and the only mandatory spell is cure. If he can afford cure then he's good to go.

Looking at the AH prices for magic scrolls ATM:

Poisona to cleanse poison debuff and protect to buff party member's defenses are also nice but not mandatory.

Cure costs 400 gil.
Cure 2 costs 1,000
Protect 800
Protectra 200
Poisona 500 gil

2,900 gil is whatever. I can fund it. @J1M if you want to play WHM then PM me or ping me on IRC and I'll come bring the scrolls. Also need to give you a linkpearl.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on September 12th, 2024, 16:10, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:08
Looking at the AH prices for magic scrolls ATM:

Poisona to cleanse poison debuff and protect to buff party member's defenses are also nice but not mandatory.

Cure costs 400 gil.
Cure 2 costs 1,000
Protect 800
Protectra 200
Poisona 500 gil

2,900 gil is whatever. I can fund it. @J1M if you want to play WHM then PM me or ping me on IRC and I'll come bring the scrolls. Also need to give you a linkpearl.
DONT DO THIS.

Cure cost 47 gil at the merchant. Protect is like 82.. Thats a newb trap.

You buy spells from NPCs or get them as drops - simple as.
Last edited by Shillitron on September 12th, 2024, 16:13, edited 1 time in total.
---
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

@Val the Moofia Boss

> Hey we should be able to get your vendor trash spells for 200 000 gil.. I'll start grinding now..

Bastok Bros... not gonna make it..
---
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

See @Kalarion, I haven't even started the client and I already have a group invite. That wouldn't be the case if I was MNK #3.

Happy to accept charity @Val the Moofia Boss.
User avatar
Kalarion
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 2161
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Kalarion »

Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:23
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:16
Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 11:03
Wait, can you actually play a paladin that is not a tank? If so I would definitely do that. I love playing Paladins.
Yes, a damage oriented paladin is possible. I have seen a greatsword wielding paladin before. For subjob you would either want warrior (for double attack passive and for the berserk ability which increases war damage), samurai (increased TP gain = use weaponskills more often), or ninja (access to dual wield).
You're a saint, because I really want to play one but @Kalarion said they are THE tanks of XI and then I was disappointed. Ok, so I'll keep playing Warrior, then unlock paladin and samurai since I do think using weaponskills often is good.
Paladins are not good damage dealers. This is not to say they can't do damage at all, just that (as @J1M already said) their passives, spells and abilities are geared 100% towards damage mitigation and threat generation.

They do have the second highest skill cap with greatswords (Dark Knight has the highest). And Enlight is a ******* badass spell that gives +10 (!!!!) Accuracy. But they don't have any of:
- Attack-boosting passives,
- Attack-boosting abilities,
- good skillchain closers,
- access to debuffing/softening spells,
- access to attack magic in general beyond Flash (a very powerful stun) and Enlight,
- high natural attack-stat (STR, DEX) growth (which is used as a coefficient in most heavy armor melee dps weaponskills).

To get an approximation of these things you can sub a DPS class, like WAR (optimal) or DRK (not as good but Last Resort is the ****).

Remember that in Final Fantasy XI, stats and gear matter a lot. Classes are not universally interchangeable. Only at the very highest levels of play (the big-daddy alliance fights and top-tier mission rewards) does gear start to mitigate the huge disparity caused by differences in stats, abilities and traits between optimal and suboptimal classes (E.G., between a SAM or DRK and a PLD).

Paladin having, say, 75 expected STR at level 75 vs. a Dark Knight having 90+ STR at level 75 (before gear) is an enormous performance difference. In terms of numbers, that 15 STR represents both an increase in damage range (range is determined primarily on your raw STR, so the DRK's top damage possible is going to be higher) and in damage consistence (15 STR gives ~30 raw Attack, which is used to calculate average damage per attack). And the 15 STR is going to feed into weaponskill damage coefficients, will influence choice of weaponskill, and so on.

Sure, the Paladin can do respectable damage and be brought as a DD in a group - when he's got an Algol or Balmung, an Adaman Cuirass, full Hecatomb gear, capped Haste and is using Hedgehog Pie for his food.

The same applies for other classes trying to fit themselves into suboptimal roles. Sure, a Dark Knight could be a respectable nuker in an experience group - with a full caster set, including a Blackjack or Demon's Axe. And so on and so forth.
. wrote:
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
User avatar
Kalarion
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 2161
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Kalarion »

J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:17
See @Kalarion, I haven't even started the client and I already have a group invite. That wouldn't be the case if I was MNK #3.

Happy to accept charity @Val the Moofia Boss.
Monk #3 can smoothly solo his way all the way into subjob if necessary though :smug:

Proof: I did it (I didn't really, but I and @WhiteShark did a ton of soloing and could have done the entire thing solo if we needed to).
. wrote:
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:23
Finarfin wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:23
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: September 12th, 2024, 15:16


Yes, a damage oriented paladin is possible. I have seen a greatsword wielding paladin before. For subjob you would either want warrior (for double attack passive and for the berserk ability which increases war damage), samurai (increased TP gain = use weaponskills more often), or ninja (access to dual wield).
You're a saint, because I really want to play one but @Kalarion said they are THE tanks of XI and then I was disappointed. Ok, so I'll keep playing Warrior, then unlock paladin and samurai since I do think using weaponskills often is good.
Paladins are not good damage dealers. This is not to say they can't do damage at all, just that (as @J1M already said) their passives, spells and abilities are geared 100% towards damage mitigation and threat generation.

They do have the second highest skill cap with greatswords (Dark Knight has the highest). And Enlight is a ******* badass spell that gives +10 (!!!!) Accuracy. But they don't have any of:
- Attack-boosting passives,
- Attack-boosting abilities,
- good skillchain closers,
- access to debuffing/softening spells,
- access to attack magic in general beyond Flash (a very powerful stun) and Enlight,
- high natural attack-stat (STR, DEX) growth (which is used as a coefficient in most heavy armor melee dps weaponskills).

To get an approximation of these things you can sub a DPS class, like WAR (optimal) or DRK (not as good but Last Resort is the ****).

Remember that in Final Fantasy XI, stats and gear matter a lot. Classes are not universally interchangeable. Only at the very highest levels of play (the big-daddy alliance fights and top-tier mission rewards) does gear start to mitigate the huge disparity caused by differences in stats, abilities and traits between optimal and suboptimal classes (E.G., between a SAM or DRK and a PLD).

Paladin having, say, 75 expected STR at level 75 vs. a Dark Knight having 90+ STR at level 75 (before gear) is an enormous performance difference. In terms of numbers, that 15 STR represents both an increase in damage range (range is determined primarily on your raw STR, so the DRK's top damage possible is going to be higher) and in damage consistence (15 STR gives ~30 raw Attack, which is used to calculate average damage per attack). And the 15 STR is going to feed into weaponskill damage coefficients, will influence choice of weaponskill, and so on.

Sure, the Paladin can do respectable damage and be brought as a DD in a group - when he's got an Algol or Balmung, an Adaman Cuirass, full Hecatomb gear, capped Haste and is using Hedgehog Pie for his food.

The same applies for other classes trying to fit themselves into suboptimal roles. Sure, a Dark Knight could be a respectable nuker in an experience group - with a full caster set, including a Blackjack or Demon's Axe. And so on and so forth.
Alternatively: play as a Dark Knight but wear silver armor.
Last edited by J1M on September 12th, 2024, 16:30, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:28
J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:17
See @Kalarion, I haven't even started the client and I already have a group invite. That wouldn't be the case if I was MNK #3.

Happy to accept charity @Val the Moofia Boss.
Monk #3 can smoothly solo his way all the way into subjob if necessary though :smug:

Proof: I did it (I didn't really, but I and @WhiteShark did a ton of soloing and could have done the entire thing solo if we needed to).
I don't think MNK is a very good BRD or BST subjob. So I'd have done all that soloing and still be level 1.
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

You got filtered though?
Come home white man.
---
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:31
Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:28
J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:17
See @Kalarion, I haven't even started the client and I already have a group invite. That wouldn't be the case if I was MNK #3.

Happy to accept charity @Val the Moofia Boss.
Monk #3 can smoothly solo his way all the way into subjob if necessary though :smug:

Proof: I did it (I didn't really, but I and @WhiteShark did a ton of soloing and could have done the entire thing solo if we needed to).
I don't think MNK is a very good BRD or BST subjob. So I'd have done all that soloing and still be level 1.
:scratch:

https://ffxiclopedia.fandom.com/wiki/Ba ... ob_Options
---
User avatar
Kalarion
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 2161
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Kalarion »

J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:31
Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:28
J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:17
See @Kalarion, I haven't even started the client and I already have a group invite. That wouldn't be the case if I was MNK #3.

Happy to accept charity @Val the Moofia Boss.
Monk #3 can smoothly solo his way all the way into subjob if necessary though :smug:

Proof: I did it (I didn't really, but I and @WhiteShark did a ton of soloing and could have done the entire thing solo if we needed to).
I don't think MNK is a very good BRD or BST subjob. So I'd have done all that soloing and still be level 1.
It wouldn't be useful for anything but a smooth on-ramp to play, I agree. I wasn't trying to argue that MNK or WAR start was anything but a convenience to mitigate the assrape of initial entry. But, as a starter subjob you could do worse as well. MNK has the highest growth of HP and VIT of any class in the game (maybe lower VIT than PLD? I'm not sure on this), which means it will be contributing a ton of raw survivability (relatively speaking of course) while you begin leveling the classes you actually want to main/sub. It also has high MND growth.

I guess all this is moot since you clearly have plenty of experience with the game. I'll stop yammering about it now :D
. wrote:
Kalarion did this a lot better you know.
User avatar
Vergil
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sep 6, '23

Geolocation

Post by Vergil »

@rusty_shackleford pretty sure this thread is in the wrong subforum this subforum is for video games with gameplay that you play.
I'm just stating the facts.
Question is are you going to gargle the truth or swallow?
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:49
J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:31
Kalarion wrote: September 12th, 2024, 16:28


Monk #3 can smoothly solo his way all the way into subjob if necessary though :smug:

Proof: I did it (I didn't really, but I and @WhiteShark did a ton of soloing and could have done the entire thing solo if we needed to).
I don't think MNK is a very good BRD or BST subjob. So I'd have done all that soloing and still be level 1.
It wouldn't be useful for anything but a smooth on-ramp to play, I agree. I wasn't trying to argue that MNK or WAR start was anything but a convenience to mitigate the assrape of initial entry. But, as a starter subjob you could do worse as well. MNK has the highest growth of HP and VIT of any class in the game (maybe lower VIT than PLD? I'm not sure on this), which means it will be contributing a ton of raw survivability (relatively speaking of course) while you begin leveling the classes you actually want to main/sub. It also has high MND growth.

I guess all this is moot since you clearly have plenty of experience with the game. I'll stop yammering about it now :D
I only played the game for about a month 20 years ago. I just have a good memory.
User avatar
rusty_shackleford
Site Admin
Posts: 45450
Joined: Feb 2, '23
Gender: Watermelon

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by rusty_shackleford »

@Shillitron post your entire config
Thank you for your attention to this matter!
Steam friend code: 40552640 https://steamcommunity.com/friends/add | email: [email protected]
Having trouble running an old Windows game?
Rusty's Stuff Collection
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

Hidden Content
This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Want the RPGHQ Approved UI Configurations? Then sign up today for RPGHQ Premium+ - FFXI Edition.
Last edited by Shillitron on September 12th, 2024, 18:25, edited 3 times in total.
---
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

Rusty's back in because he thinks you guys have a healer now.
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..

Maybe our own Forum "Jade Turtles" where we don't allow Vergil, Theo or Liberal to come in.

If my demands aren't met... FFXIHQ..
Hidden Content
This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.
Last edited by Shillitron on September 12th, 2024, 19:02, edited 1 time in total.
---
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

How do I join the in-game guild? Is the linkshell "turtle green"?
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

Hidden Content
This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.
Last edited by Shillitron on September 12th, 2024, 19:01, edited 1 time in total.
---
User avatar
WhiteShark
Site Moderator
Posts: 5056
Joined: Feb 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by WhiteShark »

@J1M, all of us are generally also in #mphq on IRC/Matrix, which lets us coordinate even when we aren't logged in.
Shillitron wrote: September 12th, 2024, 18:43
We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..
I plan to keep adding to the stuff in the OP. @Val the Moofia Boss gave me permission to edit it directly.
User avatar
Finarfin
Connoisseur of Slop
Posts: 5020
Joined: May 20, '24
Location: Tirion upon Túna

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Finarfin »

@J1M Become:
One of us
One of us
One of us
One of us
Steam code: 10514930
My Reviews:
El Matador RECOMMENDED
Dungeons of Sundaria NOT RECOMMENDED
VLADiK BRUTAL
RECOMMENDED
Ultimate Zombie Defense 2 INFORMATIONAL
Deathless: The Hero Quest RECOMMENDED
Door Kickers 2 RECOMMENDED
Folklands INFORMATIONAL
User avatar
Vergil
Posts: 15670
Joined: Sep 6, '23

Geolocation

Post by Vergil »

Shillitron wrote: September 12th, 2024, 18:43
We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..
I can promise you no one is reading the long *** text dumps in this thread
I'm just stating the facts.
Question is are you going to gargle the truth or swallow?
User avatar
J1M
Turtle
Turtle
Posts: 5068
Joined: Feb 15, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by J1M »

WhiteShark wrote: September 12th, 2024, 19:23
@J1M, all of us are generally also in #mphq on IRC/Matrix, which lets us coordinate even when we aren't logged in.
Shillitron wrote: September 12th, 2024, 18:43
We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..
I plan to keep adding to the stuff in the OP. @Val the Moofia Boss gave me permission to edit it directly.
Sounds like a gateway drug to using Discord.
User avatar
Oyster Sauce
Site Moderator
Posts: 11291
Joined: Jun 2, '23

Geolocation

Adventurer's Guild

Post by Oyster Sauce »

J1M wrote: September 12th, 2024, 20:26
WhiteShark wrote: September 12th, 2024, 19:23
@J1M, all of us are generally also in #mphq on IRC/Matrix, which lets us coordinate even when we aren't logged in.
Shillitron wrote: September 12th, 2024, 18:43
We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..
I plan to keep adding to the stuff in the OP. @Val the Moofia Boss gave me permission to edit it directly.
Sounds like a gateway drug to using Discord.
I wish
User avatar
Shillitron
Posts: 3707
Joined: Feb 6, '23
Location: ADL Head Office

Geolocation

Post by Shillitron »

Vergil wrote: September 12th, 2024, 20:11
Shillitron wrote: September 12th, 2024, 18:43
We may need a "Info Dump" thread for streamlining new players..
I can promise you no one is reading the long *** text dumps in this thread
Thankfully one lone ****** doesn't speak on behalf of this entire forum. Enjoy Allods Hue hue.
---