Why doesn't the games industry hire good writers?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Writing has the most effect on the final product for the least amount of cost. When developing and advertising a multi-million dollar game, shouldn't companies should be able to spare $30,000-$50,000 or so to contract a writer with dozens of books of his experience under his belt? AFAIK only Kingdoms of Amalur bothered to get professional, experienced writers to create their scripts. (Lost Odyssey and World of Warcraft also had professional writers involved in a limited capacity, with Kiyoshi Shigematsu writing the VN flashbacks and Christie Golden doing some cutscenes). Why are game companies content to just assign some random person within who has no talent to handle a job with such a big affect on the final product?

[J1M]

a) The people in the industry are not able to assess talent.
b) The people in the industry would rather hire their best friends than the best candidates.
c) The pay for these roles is low so only people that are willing to accept other forms of compensation, such as the chance to spread their political views, are interested in them.
d) This particular role is perceived as one that does not require high skill.

[rusty_shackleford]

You've got the problem backwards, many of them are professional writers. The issue is, they write slop.
e.g., go look at Obsidian's writers post-Avellone. Bunch of YA slop novels written by them.

[1998]

Semi recently one big reason is certainly DEI. For many other roles, you at least need some basic knowledge of some tools or processes. If you want to increase your diversity score, hiring writers is the easiest way.

[Rand]

The preponderance of good writers for games (and most everything else, by the quality of the writing I see from the other groups for shows and movies lately) are older white males.

The industry is being racist against them on purpose. And failing as a result.

[Vergil]

Media is made first and foremost to push an agenda and the industry is run on nepotism.

[LemonDemonGirl]

DEI/ESG ********. Plus all of the people who actually WANT to make games are probably making Indie games.
.... Oh he has me blocked.

[A Chinese opium den]

DEI/ESG ********. Plus all of the people who actually WANT to make games are probably making Indie games.
.... Oh he has me blocked.

You can't possibly be making a scene about 5 people blocking you(including the joke account blocking every user), this must be a comedy bit considering your blocking three times that amount of people yourself. Why are women like this?

[WaterMage]

Because they care more about DIE ideology/religion than good writing... BTW, Chris Avellone will never get work again, even after proven innocent(this is worse than Stalin purges, where you are guilty till proven innocent, under Baizuo inquisition, you are guilty even after proven innnocent).

And the major problem is that their """"""representative"""" characters are always bland and boring, with no flaws, challenges to overcome and good story.

[Acrux]

even after proven innocent

He was never proven innocent of being a libtard

[LemonDemonGirl]

You can't possibly be making a scene about 5 people blocking you(including the joke account blocking every user), this must be a comedy bit considering your blocking three times that amount of people yourself. Why are women like this?

How's your hand? It must surely be sore

[A Chinese opium den]

You can't possibly be making a scene about 5 people blocking you(including the joke account blocking every user), this must be a comedy bit considering your blocking three times that amount of people yourself. Why are women like this?

How's your hand? It must surely be sore

Entirely unironically what did he mean by this?

[The_Mask]

Entirely unironically what did he mean by this?

B.C. snowflake talk.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Sorry LDG. I don't want to see surprise unnerving cartoon monster faces. Warcraft trolls are whatever but you post them randomly a lot.

[OnTilt]

You can't possibly be making a scene about 5 people blocking you(including the joke account blocking every user), this must be a comedy bit considering your blocking three times that amount of people yourself. Why are women like this?

How's your hand? It must surely be sore

Entirely unironically what did he mean by this?

I think it was a masturbation joke? Women typically come back with some form of incel allegation because sex is the only form of value they understand.

[wndrbr]

"Professional writers" is the reason modern videogames have a writing like that. Actual game designers should go back to writing stuff by themselves instead of hiring "writers" to do it for them.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Sorry LDG. I don't want to see surprise unnerving cartoon monster faces. Warcraft trolls are whatever but you post them randomly a lot.

Oh ok, that's fine. I thought I irritated you or something. Sorry.

[Vergil]

Entirely unironically what did he mean by this?

>he doesn't know
I bet you don't know how to use the three seashells either.

[DDC]

It's the same combination of credentialism/competency crisis that has wrecked so many other areas of society.

Something analogous happened in pro wrestling. Shows cranked out by a small group of wrestling minds lead to the biggest boom the industry had ever seen. Eventually as wrestling became corporatized, their roles were taken over by ever-growing (and eventually massive) teams of "professional" TV writers and the product went to absolute ****. It doesn't matter how many of these credentialed, talentless hacks you throw at something. They will never be able to create anything good, and as more and more bodies are added, their product converges on something ChatGPT-like. Another closely related issue is that in adding bodies and focusing on credentials, women are inevitably brought into the fold, and while I'm sure a small handful of women throughout human history have occasionally written funny and entertaining things, most of them are a drag on creative endeavors.

Largely the same thing has happened to the gaming industry, and it is buttressed by misguided incentives for what constitutes "good writing." Vomit a bunch of self-indulgent, masturbatory prose like Disco Elysium and you might win a bunch of GOTY awards. Write your companions to be bland, unlikable, "diverse" dipshits, and you'll probably win GOTY awards as long as they are fuckable by player characters of either sex. Don't put any effort into how the story is presented, instead relegating key events about the world (that are more interesting than what is actually shown) to text-based "codex" entries, and reviewers will probably laud your "world-building."

Unambitious plots are pervasive in modern gaming. Everyone wants to stretch a 20-hour plot into a 60-hour game by larding it up with excessive slice-of-life and "world building," because writing a brisk plot with enough engaging twists to fill the time is hard, but writing slice-of-life scenes is easy. Persona 5 is one of the worst offenders, taking a plot that would have been spread thin in a 30-hour jrpg and dragging it out over 100+ hours, and winning many awards for doing so.

[Stack of Turtles]

NPCs not only can't write well no matter what they do, they also can't tell good writing from bad writing.
These people have a brain sickness and they are not only in charge of the gaming industry itself, but also the majority of the audience.

I mean, some of them are so dumb they think hiring """professional""" novel writers would actually help...
Seriously, though, not to rag on you, but most "professional writers" also have the same brain sickness, and besides, writing a novel is structurally different from writing a game. Notice that your two examples there were both linear cutscene situations, the closest to being an actual book; that obviously doesn't apply in most cases, and even using it just for linear sequences risks making them overindulgent given that the point of a game is to be a GAME.

[Kitsune]

Well, some people already brought up some good reasons. Though the bedrock really is the ESG score of BlackRock/Vanguard/Statestreet. They are re-shaping society to their liking. All tiny hats, of course.
Many people know, many are in denial about it, the vast majority is ******** and has no idea. This obviously goes far beyond games and media in general, but they are good mediums to deliver your crooked message.

[rusty_shackleford]

You've got the problem backwards, many of them are professional writers. The issue is, they write slop.
e.g., go look at Obsidian's writers post-Avellone. Bunch of YA slop novels written by them.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B01IC37JAA/about

Kate Dollarhyde is a Nebula Award-winning game designer and writer of speculative fiction.

Her stories have been published in Fireside Fiction, Lackington’s, Beneath Ceaseless Skies, and other magazines. Previously, she was the co-editor-in-chief of the short fiction magazine, Strange Horizons.

She is also a narrative designer at Obsidian Entertainment, where she’s written for The Outer Worlds and the Pillars of Eternity series.

She lives in California.

Obsidian employs AWARD WINNING womyn, it's why their writing quality is so high now. Unlike losers like Avellone who didn't win a Nebula award.

[Xenich]

It is easy to be a writer, but it takes real talent, dedication, attention to detail and a good knowledge source to pull from. A good writer usually will have not only the skills to properly form and convey their thoughts (strong understanding of the mechanics of language and structure), but also a vast knowledge base to work from (usually having a deep imagination or experience combined with being very well read). A good writer will also tend to be highly intelligent and contain a wisdom of insight that the average person does not have.

Also, I think a good writer, just like a programmer will spend a large amount of time in planning and structuring their elements building an extensive depth to the characters, world, backstory, etc... that have a logical flow and connection.

Unfortunately, look at most of the lit and language majors over the years. The field became a place where the anti-intellectuals went because the field is extremely easy to enter and become proficient in with its basic mechanics, but it is an area like I said that is more than the simple mechanics to be good at. Most of your writers these days lack depth of knowledge, experience, wisdom, logic skills, etc... and the bulk of their experience is narrow to various political dogma and emotional programming.

It is a very difficult field for those who lack the talent and honestly, it is an area I think that without true talent, has limits on what can be achieved (to be one of the greats that is).

I think a good writer also has a natural charm similar to public speakers that seem to be able to form their ideas in a manner that can draw a person in and not simply communicate a message, but inspire an emotional connection to it.

None of the writing I see today is able to achieve this and when you look at the people doing the writing, it becomes clear as to why.

[Xenich]

You've got the problem backwards, many of them are professional writers. The issue is, they write slop.
e.g., go look at Obsidian's writers post-Avellone. Bunch of YA slop novels written by them.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B01IC37JAA/about

Kate Dollarhyde is a Nebula Award-winning game designer and writer of speculative fiction.

Her stories have been published in Fireside Fiction, Lackington’s, Beneath Ceaseless Skies, and other magazines. Previously, she was the co-editor-in-chief of the short fiction magazine, Strange Horizons.

She is also a narrative designer at Obsidian Entertainment, where she’s written for The Outer Worlds and the Pillars of Eternity series.

She lives in California.

Obsidian employs AWARD WINNING womyn, it's why their writing quality is so high now. Unlike losers like Avellone who didn't win a Nebula award.

Didn't you know? All the real great writers were women! They were just forced to write under men names, but the reality is that everything worth reading in our history was written by women, more specifically gay black women! Oh, and they also were the ones that won all of the wars too, you know... because they sent special elite women units under cover who single handedly won all of the battles in history.

[gerey]

Obsidian employs AWARD WINNING womyn

All the prestigious literally awards have been coopted by leftists and are used to asspat each other. It's why you only ever see the same liberal ******* and their diversity proteges win these awards, despite ******** out books no one has heard anything about, let alone read.

Also, I don't think games need good writers. I do agree that good writers would elevate a game even further, but they're not really necessary. A game like Doom doesn't need someone to write introspective prose about humanity, religion and the nature of Hell, they just need to write a story that will make the player feel like a badass.

Say what you want about NuDoom, but the introductory scene in the elevator, where the corporate shill is trying to justify what they've done, while Doom guy looks down at a dead person and then smashes the screen in rage, as the music reaches a crescendo, is the kind of storytelling games need to strive towards.



30 seconds is all it takes for the narrative designers to explains the stakes, give Doomguy a personality and set the tone for the whole story. The simple truth is that nearly all great games that are praised for their narrative were written by non-professional writers, or even people that never wrote a story before.

Games need to pander to the player, they need to dredge up the essence of pulp that made Conan or Lovecraft so fun to read, not gay **** navel gazing faggotry the likes of Asimov or Druckmann **** out.

[Xenich]

Obsidian employs AWARD WINNING womyn

All the prestigious literally awards have been coopted by leftists and are used to asspat each other. It's why you only ever see the same liberal ******* and their diversity proteges win these awards, despite ******** out books no one has heard anything about, let alone read.

Also, I don't think games need good writers. I do agree that good writers would elevate a game even further, but they're not really necessary. A game like Doom doesn't need someone to write introspective prose about humanity, religion and the nature of Hell, they just need to write a story that will make the player feel like a badass.

Say what you want about NuDoom, but the introductory scene in the elevator, where the corporate shill is trying to justify what they've done, while Doom guy looks down at a dead person and then smashes the screen in rage, as the music reaches a crescendo, is the kind of storytelling games need to strive towards.

Games need to pander to the player, they need to dredge up the essence of pulp that made Conan or Lovecraft so fun to read, not gay **** navel gazing faggotry the likes of Asimov or Druckmann **** out.

Agreed. They do however have to be "intelligent" writers to an extent (and not indoctrinated to narrative politics). A stupid person can not be witty as they always come off awkward and writers that are politically indoctrinated obsess over "inside joke" politic parody that wreaks of desperation. It is like SNL. I know many were still leftists early on, but... it didn't consume their writing and focus and so it still came off witty/amusing rather than a bunch of libtards cracking jokes about some imaginary perception of a political issue that they layer parody quips to which only they understand or find amusing.

edit:

I also agree though that with games, it doesn't need extreme depth. As you said, simple stories, directives, etc... can be all that is needed to create a nice flow for the game and focusing the player to their tasks.

[gerey]

I also agree though that with games, it doesn't need extreme depth. As you said, simple stories, directives, etc... can be all that is needed to create a nice flow for the game and focusing the player to their tasks.

I do agree with all you've said concerning good writers. It's a rare skill, and even rarer to find one that knows how to write for a game, which are a completely different kind of medium to write in.

A good story can carry a ****** game (i.e. nearly all of the Legacy of Kain/Blood Omen games), and even a great game can become legendary thanks to good writing. I do however think that serious writing is in direct conflict with games as a concept. Developers have tried "feel bad" games like Silent Line or TLOU2, but doing that will always cause friction between what the player can achieve in game, and what the plot is trying to convey they can do.

[bloodedhunter]

.... Oh he has me blocked.

Get owned scrub.

[bloodedhunter]

Obsidian employs AWARD WINNING womyn

All the prestigious literally awards have been coopted by leftists and are used to asspat each other. It's why you only ever see the same liberal ******* and their diversity proteges win these awards, despite ******** out books no one has heard anything about, let alone read.

Also, I don't think games need good writers. I do agree that good writers would elevate a game even further, but they're not really necessary. A game like Doom doesn't need someone to write introspective prose about humanity, religion and the nature of Hell, they just need to write a story that will make the player feel like a badass.

Say what you want about NuDoom, but the introductory scene in the elevator, where the corporate shill is trying to justify what they've done, while Doom guy looks down at a dead person and then smashes the screen in rage, as the music reaches a crescendo, is the kind of storytelling games need to strive towards.



30 seconds is all it takes for the narrative designers to explains the stakes, give Doomguy a personality and set the tone for the whole story. The simple truth is that nearly all great games that are praised for their narrative were written by non-professional writers, or even people that never wrote a story before.

Games need to pander to the player, they need to dredge up the essence of pulp that made Conan or Lovecraft so fun to read, not gay **** navel gazing faggotry the likes of Asimov or Druckmann **** out.

I like the grounded direction Doom 2016 was headed in. Don't care for the inevitable inclusion into the MCU with the capeshit that they're doing with Eternal and Dark Ages. He was just a normal marine who got gud and killed a ton of demons on mars.

Suddenly now he's the chosen one and has his own fortress of solitude that looks like it should be an unreal tournament map that was somehow never seen despite humanity having space travel well before the demon invasion.

[rusty_shackleford]

original doomguy was a devout catholic volcel (it's in the books)