Why aren't NPC characters also becoming more powerful over time? Why do only you get to level up?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

One thing that has struck me as quite odd about RPGs is how the player character (and his party members) are the only people who seem to be getting exp and levelling up. You will be level 2 and meet a level 50 character at the start of the game. Dozens or hundreds of hours later, you will be level 70 and have become much more powerful both gameplay wise and the story., but they will still be level 50. You will meet that same character again, but they will still be the same powerlevel as they once were. Maybe their level is bumped up, but story wise it seems like they haven't trained and become more powerful in the mean time like you did.

It seems that only certain sandbox simulators like Mount & Blade have other people levelling up and becoming more powerful in the background, and certain story games like Trails (like Zin going from A-rank to an S-rank Bracer over the course of the series). But the norm is that mostly everyone in this world never becomes more powerful.

[methoxetamine]

One thing that has struck me as quite odd about RPGs is how the player character (and his party members) are the only people who seem to be getting exp and levelling up. You will be level 2 and meet a level 50 character at the start of the game. Dozens or hundreds of hours later, you will be level 70 and have become much more powerful both gameplay wise and the story., but they will still be level 50. You will meet that same character again, but they will still be the same powerlevel as they once were. Maybe their level is bumped up, but story wise it seems like they haven't trained and become more powerful in the mean time like you did.

It seems that only certain sandbox simulators like Mount & Blade have other people levelling up and becoming more powerful in the background, and certain story games like Trails (like Zin going from A-rank to an S-rank Bracer over the course of the series). But the norm is that mostly everyone in this world never becomes more powerful.

Hey man if you lived in a comfy jrpg world as an irrelevant npc you might want to kick back and take it easy too

[Acrux]

Val's over here making the case for level scaling.

[logincrash]

Non-Playable Character characters

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Val's over here making the case for level scaling.

The traditional implementation of level scaling doesn't actually solve what I am talking about. You can be standing outside of an army garrison where the soldiers inside are level 12 and just standing there on watch, not training or going out and fighting and getting experience. You kill a giant 100 feet away and level up to level 13. Suddenly, inexplicably, the people inside the garrison who weren't doing anything become level 13. They are somehow the same level as a random adventurer in ebony armor you meet, who presumably was doing work and would be levelling at a faster rate than army soldiers who did nothing.

[logincrash]

Val's over here making the case for level scaling.

The traditional implementation of level scaling doesn't actually solve what I am talking about. You can be standing outside of an army garrison where the soldiers inside are level 12 and just standing there on watch, not training or going out and fighting and getting experience. You kill a giant 100 feet away and level up to level 13. Suddenly, inexplicably, the people inside the garrison who weren't doing anything become level 13. They are somehow the same level as a random adventurer in ebony armor you meet, who presumably was doing work and would be levelling at a faster rate than army soldiers who did nothing.

You're just answering your own questions.

[Tadeusz]

Are you talking about the simulation of NPCs training? In which cases does it work better in RPGs than other approaches (level scaling or static levels)? This is more prevalent in strategies, it's not popular in RPGs because it adds a timer and may be hard to balance.

[nepbnhurj]

It's mostly excused by the player character(s) being definitionally exceptional. Chosen one and whatnot. As for why the big bad never thinks to go bottoms up with as many health potions as the player, or why nobody in the history of the game's world has thought to create a homunculus race with an increased conduciveness for magic on par with the player's, I'll email Todd Howard and get back to you soon.

[maidenhaver]

Are you talking about the simulation of NPCs training? In which cases does it work better in RPGs than other approaches (level scaling or static levels)? This is more prevalent in strategies, it's not popular in RPGs because it adds a timer and may be hard to balance.

Old Creative Assembly could have made one of the best crpgs of all time.

[rusty_shackleford]

I think Kenshi NPCs do this, maybe? I didn't get very far into the game.
(To give an idea of what OP is referring to)

[Demonic Fate]

[Vaako]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

[Acrux]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

I can't believe no companies ever challenged this. It seems like it would have been relatively easy to get a Section 101 rejection if it was ever litigated.

https://www.finnegan.com/en/insights/ar ... atent.html

[Oyster Sauce]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

I can't believe no companies ever challenged this. It seems like it would have been relatively easy to get a Section 101 rejection if it was ever litigated.

https://www.finnegan.com/en/insights/ar ... atent.html

You have to keep in mind that game developers hate you and don't want games to be fun

[logincrash]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

******* WB, stupid *******. They can't do anything right and that's why they're in debt and are being bought right now.

[rusty_shackleford]

Until I see one actually stand up in court I reaffirm my position that video game patents are bunk. They're at best used in case they may be useful by intimidation, but considering how many patents filed vs actual patent infringement cases(~0), it's just publishers making sure they cross their eyes and dot their tees.

[Vaako]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

******* WB, stupid *******. They can't do anything right and that's why they're in debt and are being bought right now.

yeah they even ****** up the release of shadows of war with the typical lootbox **** and endless grind, even if they removed that in a version which came out years later. But I guess thats why we never saw a third game with it. (probably made less money than they wanted and they closed the studio I think) Gameplay was pretty fun even if it was the usual Ubisoft style map where you run from objectiv to objectiv, but at least they got the power fantasy and the nemesis system right.

[Tangerine]

If everyone's getting more powerful, what do they need you for, Chosen One?

[Tweed]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

Warning Forever says hi.

[J1M]

One thing that has struck me as quite odd about RPGs is how the player character (and his party members) are the only people who seem to be getting exp and levelling up. You will be level 2 and meet a level 50 character at the start of the game. Dozens or hundreds of hours later, you will be level 70 and have become much more powerful both gameplay wise and the story., but they will still be level 50. You will meet that same character again, but they will still be the same powerlevel as they once were. Maybe their level is bumped up, but story wise it seems like they haven't trained and become more powerful in the mean time like you did.

It seems that only certain sandbox simulators like Mount & Blade have other people levelling up and becoming more powerful in the background, and certain story games like Trails (like Zin going from A-rank to an S-rank Bracer over the course of the series). But the norm is that mostly everyone in this world never becomes more powerful.

Yeah, it's pretty stupid that a fox on another continent is level 72 and a random guard is level 95.

Also pretty stupid how high the level number goes. And how dominant it is in a lot of combat calculations. There's only 10 Machs, 24 karats, and 9.9 Richters, after all.

[Acrux]

9.9 Richters

Are there any rpgs where character power (or level advancement) increases logarithmically?

[J1M]

9.9 Richters

Are there any rpgs where character power (or level advancement) increases logarithmically?

I don't know. Would depend on your definition. Notably, Arthas loses levels each mission in the Undead WarCraft III expansion campaign.

[Rienen]

In Alaloth: Champions of The Four Kingdoms, if you choose a specific game setting, the rival NPC champions will travel the world, claiming progression ("Fighting Areas") areas and quests. The FA's are how you get stat, trait, and skill points. So, when the rival champions take/claims them, the player loses out on those potential points.

I have had a few attempts with this mode, and it wasn't overly egregious. As long as you're out exploring at a decent pace, you'll still have plenty of points to progress with.

[asf]

go play oblibion

[Havitner]

People want to enjoy the feeling of growing stronger, but they also want to inhabit an immersive/believable fictional world where people don't go from hapless peasant to grizzled dragon slayer over the course of a couple of weeks (with the player character being a necessary exception).

[Rand]

One thing that has struck me as quite odd about RPGs is how the player character (and his party members) are the only people who seem to be getting exp and levelling up. You will be level 2 and meet a level 50 character at the start of the game. Dozens or hundreds of hours later, you will be level 70 and have become much more powerful both gameplay wise and the story., but they will still be level 50. You will meet that same character again, but they will still be the same powerlevel as they once were. Maybe their level is bumped up, but story wise it seems like they haven't trained and become more powerful in the mean time like you did.

It seems that only certain sandbox simulators like Mount & Blade have other people levelling up and becoming more powerful in the background, and certain story games like Trails (like Zin going from A-rank to an S-rank Bracer over the course of the series). But the norm is that mostly everyone in this world never becomes more powerful.

Bethesharts' ideas...

[TKVNC]

I think Kenshi NPCs do this, maybe? I didn't get very far into the game.
(To give an idea of what OP is referring to)

Yes, they do in Kenshi.

You could, theoretically level a starving bandit to 100 in almost everything, at least the things tangentially related to combat.

[anvi]

My friend played MUDs (multi user dungeons/dimensions) in the olden times and I was interested in his stories. I never played one but was interested because I loved EQ and that was attempting to be a 3D Mud in the good ole days before MMOs all wanted to be nothing more than another MMO. Anyway he talked about one where the enemies would get stronger if they killed a player. They also would take equipment from the player they killed. I don't think they would take everything, but there were unique items in the game. Unlike MMOs where even so called rare items drop over and over and lots of people have them... In that MUD there would be things like a super powerful sword that only existed once in the world. If a player killed the creature carrying that sword, he would become legendary amongst players. Like Excalibur kind of thing. But if that player died to a creature at some point, the creature would take the sword and equip it.

[anvi]

I also liked the idea of the Nemesis system in that Something Something Mordor game. Shame I hated the game.

[Fitz]

Guess the closest to this is the nemesis system from shadows of war and thats patented sadly.

******* WB, stupid *******. They can't do anything right and that's why they're in debt and are being bought right now.

yeah they even ****** up the release of shadows of war with the typical lootbox **** and endless grind, even if they removed that in a version which came out years later. But I guess thats why we never saw a third game with it. (probably made less money than they wanted and they closed the studio I think) Gameplay was pretty fun even if it was the usual Ubisoft style map where you run from objectiv to objectiv, but at least they got the power fantasy and the nemesis system right.

There might be some movement on that patent once WB gets bought. It’s too good of an idea not to try and milk it for more money. Netflix are already getting into sports streaming (boxing and now UFC), so video games sound like the next logical step. Assuming they are the ones that buy them out of course.