Stormcloaks or Imperials?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Where dost thou stand?

[rusty_shackleford]

Only thing close to an argument empiretards have is a letter. There's no evidence to back up what the letter says, and it could have been flat out disinformation purposely planted there. Nothing suggests he's ever a sleeper agent.

OTOH:
Empire is incredibly weak. They rely almost entirely on nords for their military at this point.
Tying back into that point, the redguards seceded from the empire and continued to fight the Aldmeri to a stalemate and secured a treaty on their own terms, by themselves.
The empire willingly accepted a treaty that placed undue burdens specifically on the one peoples that made up the bulk of their fighting forces in the war.
The empire is crumbling, there is nothing to gain from staying in it. They couldn't defeat the Aldmeri with a larger, more powerful empire — why would a weaker one protect them?


The story is written so in favor of the Nords that anyone actually pro-Empire is just being a contrarian or connects it to real life issues and therefore opposes the nords because "muh nazis"

[edit]
Forgot to add that the same document empiretards cite specifically says they do NOT want the nords to win the war. Which destroys their entire argument.

[SpellSword]

Can't side with people that tried to cut my head off.

[rusty_shackleford]

Can't side with people that tried to cut my head off.

As far as personal reasons go, there's also this. 10 minutes ago they wanted to cut off your head.
Goes back to:

The story is written so in favor of the Nords that anyone actually pro-Empire is just being a contrarian or connects it to real life issues and therefore opposes the nords because "muh nazis"

[Oyster Sauce]

Depends on the character I'm playing :weeb:

[rusty_shackleford]

Depends on the character I'm playing :weeb:

non-nords should just turn around and go home after the game starts.

[Oyster Sauce]

Depends on the character I'm playing :weeb:

non-nords should just turn around and go home after the game starts.

I almost exclusively play the native race for each game. Don't think I've ever had a non-nord in Skyrim.

[Tangerine]

The Empire in Skyrim is ******.

[rusty_shackleford]

Depends on the character I'm playing :weeb:

non-nords should just turn around and go home after the game starts.

I almost exclusively play the native race for each game. Don't think I've ever had a non-nord in Skyrim.

At least the other games have a reason for you to continue after the game starts, what reason does a non-nord have to not just NOPE the **** out of Skyrim? Why would you want to stay in a province that is in a civil war, where you already almost died for a minor crime, and is now full of dragons?
You don't even find out you're a dragonborn until hours in under normal play, which would be days/weeks for your character.

[Oyster Sauce]

non-nords should just turn around and go home after the game starts.

I almost exclusively play the native race for each game. Don't think I've ever had a non-nord in Skyrim.

At least the other games have a reason for you to continue after the game starts, what reason does a non-nord have to not just NOPE the **** out of Skyrim? Why would you want to stay in a province that is in a civil war, where you already almost died for a minor crime, and is now full of dragons?
You don't even find out you're a dragonborn until hours in under normal play, which would be days/weeks for your character.

Presumably the Imperial death squads executing everybody trying to cross the border. Maybe you WERE trying to GTFO when you got caught.

[rusty_shackleford]

I almost exclusively play the native race for each game. Don't think I've ever had a non-nord in Skyrim.

At least the other games have a reason for you to continue after the game starts, what reason does a non-nord have to not just NOPE the **** out of Skyrim? Why would you want to stay in a province that is in a civil war, where you already almost died for a minor crime, and is now full of dragons?
You don't even find out you're a dragonborn until hours in under normal play, which would be days/weeks for your character.

Presumably the Imperial death squads executing everybody trying to cross the border. Maybe you WERE trying to GTFO when you got caught.

If you pick nord, it says:

You picked a bad time to come home to Skyrim, kinsman

[The_Mask]

I played Breton or Orc, because I enjoyed the abilities and I could RP that I was from around the area. Sort of.

The silliest piece of info I've gained is that if you choose to play High Elf and realize that the game's running speed of characters is influenced by height, you can have a male High Elf that runs like the wind. Which means less dead time running around. Useless trivia that nobody gives a **** about.

Yes, I am fun at parties.

[WaterMage]

and therefore opposes the nords because "muh nazis"

Also, EVERYONE is racist in TES games. Altmer probably the most and Argonian the least.

But yes, the Emprie can't protect its citizens and allow Talmor to kidnap and kill people with no trial for teh crime of worshiping Talos.

non-nords should just turn around and go home after the game starts.

Depends. How a Dark Elf could return to his home if Morrowind is destroyed?

Anyway, I imagine that Ulfric would accept a Breton easier than a Altmer. Bretons and Nords have "closer" cultures and a history of cooperation.

[psychic_dream]

Who do you think the Elder Scrolls races are based on in real life? Nords are obviously inspired by Vikings, Imperials resemble ancient Romans, Khajiit feel a bit like Indians, Orcs seem to draw from Mongolian or Central Asian tribes, and Argonian culture seems similar to that of South Asians. Any other comparisons you can think of?

[Vergil]

Empire were good guys in the other games they're good guys in this game simple as

[Envergence]

'ate barbarians
'ate vikings
Luv Rome
Luv law and order

Simple as.

[Vergil]

Falmereth belongs to the Mer, you stinky round eared cur

[Demonic Fate]

Who do you think the Elder Scrolls races are based on in real life? Nords are obviously inspired by Vikings, Imperials resemble ancient Romans, Khajiit feel a bit like Indians, Orcs seem to draw from Mongolian or Central Asian tribes, and Argonian culture seems similar to that of South Asians. Any other comparisons you can think of?

Altmers used to have some Japanese concepts in them. Katanas, kimonos, live on isolated Home Islands, stuff like that. I think it got dropped by the time Oblivion came out, maybe earlier.

[jebacdrkac]

Stormcloaks plain and simple, empire at current state is more pathetic than western roman empire in 476
The only time when i sided with imperials was to use ulfric and galmar as dead thralls
Either way civil war is the second most pathetic questline after bards college

[Godjjjita]

Who do you think the Elder Scrolls races are based on in real life? Nords are obviously inspired by Vikings, Imperials resemble ancient Romans, Khajiit feel a bit like Indians, Orcs seem to draw from Mongolian or Central Asian tribes, and Argonian culture seems similar to that of South Asians. Any other comparisons you can think of?

redguards, although mostly black in modern games, were inspired by middle eastern culture. Dunmer too if i'm not mistaken but to a lesser extent.

[TKVNC]

I'd probably have said Empire but now I'm racist, I'll say Stormcloaks.

[Valter]

Empire wanted my head on a basket. Stormcloaks saved me. Simple as.

[gerey]

If the Empire wasn't so multicultural and gay, I'd vote for them, because Fantasy Roman Empire for the win, but since they're a gay liberal interpretation of it, I have to side with the Stormcloacks.

[dagal]

Whatever.

The letter about Ulfric makes him sus indeed. It could be fake, but then again, it was found in the Thalmor embassy, where they were not expecting anyone to be snooping around and other confidential documents can be found, that proved to be true.

Then you could say "oh but what if Ulfric is playing 5D chess". Let's look at the evidences of his cunning character, then:

• Yeeted Torygg with his voice in what was supposed to be a diplomatic visit, when Torygg was actually sympathizing with Ulfric's cause. As a result, he cut off not only the High King as a potential ally, but also several Jarls and people who actually liked Torygg and felt that Ulfric's act was dishonorable. Yes, there is that ancestral right, but he kind of challenged on the spot, under the guise of a diplomatic visit, and with a weapon that he knew Torygg could not match in a 1vs1.
• How he handled Markarth. If he only executed the leaders of the rebellion, no one would have complained. But he has to go out of his way to make every Forsworn hold a personal grudge against him. Let's have this huge faction, native to the land and very proficient at guerrilla tactics, hold a butthurt against you when the main threat is much more powerful and due to start another big war soon. Genius move.

All in all, it looks to me that neither Ulfric nor the people who surround him have the necessary strategic thinking to navigate not only the current situation, but also what lies ahead after he wins. The civil war could have been likely prevented, or at least won very quickly and without the Dragonborn's help, if he has played his cards differently. Coincidentally, Nords slaying each other in the civil war does benefit the Aldmeri Dominion. So through his folly, he is actually doing the High Elve's bidding. How likely is it that he will continue dancing to their music, unwillingly, just because he is so tone deaf?

That being said, the Empire sucks.
"Oh does Talos offend you? Sorry, guess he is not a god at all."
"The Blades? What Blades? Don't know them, you can have them."
"We were too weak to beat them back then, but surely we can lvl up and become strong enough to beat them for sure in a few years, despite occupation and Thalmor carefully overwatching any position of power, and having much better spies than us. Where are those Blades when we need them??"

Both sides deserve what they got.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

There are people who choose the empire?

[Reichspepe]

The only way to justify siding with the Empire is to go a Make the Empire great again route, to believe you can root out the subversion and reclaim its glory. No other real justification comes to mind, except if you're an Imperial yourself.

[Demonic Fate]

https://elderscrolls.fandom.com/wiki/Th ... Stormcloak

The letter isn't saying that Ulfric has any loyalty to the Thalmor, merely that they psyopped him a bit after being imprisoned, and that they have "contacted" him before but no longer do. "Dormant asset" isn't the same as "sleeper agent" - he's not faithfully waiting for an order, he's just someone the Thalmor thinks they have some leverage/insight over. Or in other words: he's not the enemy officer on the spy's payroll, he's the enemy officer listed in the spy's dossier with a psych profile and some juicy info.

Basically it sounds like he's Lenin and the Thalmor are Germany in WW1 who facilitated his trip to Russia. They hate each other and they both have no illusion about that, but since the Thalmor want to keep Skyrim in a civil war as long as possible, they note down that supplying/undermining Ulfric is an option were the Stormcloaks to get too close to losing/winning respectively. Whereas another Nord leader would just ignore and kill on sight any emissary they sent.

[jebacdrkac]

[BlueMemphis]

Empire all the way, roman aesthetics don’t lie and Stormcloaks are literally a thalmor psyop.

What is more damning that any letter though is i’ll point out that traditionally, ****** and pearl clutcher types always go stormcloak whereas imperials is considered the chud choice.

[jebacdrkac]

****** and pearl clutcher types always go stormcloak whereas imperials is considered the chud choice.

This might be the dumbest thing I've read on this forum...
To the average *****, the Stormcloaks are literally maga.