Is hit or miss fun?

[rusty_shackleford]

I know pillows of eternity got a lot of flak for their miss/graze/hit/crit system, but I don't really understand why. I enjoyed it more than "oh sorry, you were 1% off from hitting therefore you do nothing"

[Lord of Riva]

I know pillows of eternity got a lot of flak for their miss/graze/hit/crit system, but I don't really understand why. I enjoyed it more than "oh sorry, you were 1% off from hitting therefore you do nothing"

I did not mind PoEs damage system at all. However I am of the opinion that deterministic systems are always better than random ones. I'm with Codex's Lukaszek (or whatever he is written) on this.

[rusty_shackleford]

I know pillows of eternity got a lot of flak for their miss/graze/hit/crit system, but I don't really understand why. I enjoyed it more than "oh sorry, you were 1% off from hitting therefore you do nothing"

I did not mind PoEs damage system at all. However I am of the opinion that deterministic systems are always better than random ones. I'm with Codex's Lukaszek (or whatever he is written) on this.

How do you stop full determinism from turning into a puzzle?

You might like Wartales, btw. It has no chance to miss at all iirc. Basically Battle Brothers for people who don't like how RNG Battle Brothers is.
viewtopic.php?t=219-wartales-released

[Val the Moofia Boss]

How do you stop full determinism from turning into a puzzle?

Is that a bad thing? The Banner Saga had no chance to miss or crit system. You could look at the strength (combined attack and HP stat) stats of any character on the screen and how far away from each other they are and know how much anybody could be hurt within the next several turns, but I still found it challenging due to there being lots of armored stonemen, the difficulty of healing up, and the battles where enemy reinforcements arrive halfway through.

[J1M]

Missing feels bad. An opponent dodging feels less bad. At a table something like an opportunity attack should be flat damage with no dice roll to speed up play.

Variation of outcome can come from things like the ability to deflect the first ranged attack in a round.

These days my preference is for factions to alternate turns instead of individual initiative. This allows for more depth without making individual units overly complicated. Even if the enemy has deterministic actions, you can prevent the combat from being a puzzle by simply randomly choosing the order the enemies take their turn.

[rusty_shackleford]

These days my preference is for factions to alternate turns instead of individual initiative.

[Lord of Riva]

I know pillows of eternity got a lot of flak for their miss/graze/hit/crit system, but I don't really understand why. I enjoyed it more than "oh sorry, you were 1% off from hitting therefore you do nothing"

I did not mind PoEs damage system at all. However I am of the opinion that deterministic systems are always better than random ones. I'm with Codex's Lukaszek (or whatever he is written) on this.

How do you stop full determinism from turning into a puzzle?

You might like Wartales, btw. It has no chance to miss at all iirc. Basically Battle Brothers for people who don't like how RNG Battle Brothers is.
viewtopic.php?t=219-wartales-released

Any puzzle with enough complexity is not really a puzzle anymore for a human that is, the human mind can not even solve Chess without a lifetime of learning it and only dedicated and quite intelligent players can do it to boot. A Computer game is vastly more complex already so complex in fact that RNG is perceived as random when it actually is not.

The same is true for any game that has an opponent that can react with complex human thinking, so not an AI opponent, which makes a game that is deterministic in nature to something with variables that you do not know, whilst the rules are still deterministic in nature.

It is all just a matter of complexity and quantity and quality of unknown variables.

EDIT: I think I have Wartales on the wishlist, just as much as the game you are translating. Huge backlog is Huge.

[rusty_shackleford]

I did not mind PoEs damage system at all. However I am of the opinion that deterministic systems are always better than random ones. I'm with Codex's Lukaszek (or whatever he is written) on this.

How do you stop full determinism from turning into a puzzle?

You might like Wartales, btw. It has no chance to miss at all iirc. Basically Battle Brothers for people who don't like how RNG Battle Brothers is.
viewtopic.php?t=219-wartales-released

Any puzzle with enough complexity is not really a puzzle anymore for a human that is, the human mind can not even solve Chess without a lifetime of learning it and only dedicated and quite intelligent players can do it to boot. A Computer game is vastly more complex already so complex in fact that RNG is perceived as random when it actually is not.

The same is true for any game that has an opponent that can react with complex human thinking, so not an AI opponent, which makes a game that is deterministic in nature to something with variables that you do not know, whilst the rules are still deterministic in nature.

It is all just a matter of complexity and quantity and quality of unknown variables.

Chess isn't a puzzle because the opponent is nondeterministic. So you'd definitely need to make the AI nondeterministic to get a similar experience.

[Lord of Riva]

How do you stop full determinism from turning into a puzzle?

You might like Wartales, btw. It has no chance to miss at all iirc. Basically Battle Brothers for people who don't like how RNG Battle Brothers is.
viewtopic.php?t=219-wartales-released

Any puzzle with enough complexity is not really a puzzle anymore for a human that is, the human mind can not even solve Chess without a lifetime of learning it and only dedicated and quite intelligent players can do it to boot. A Computer game is vastly more complex already so complex in fact that RNG is perceived as random when it actually is not.

The same is true for any game that has an opponent that can react with complex human thinking, so not an AI opponent, which makes a game that is deterministic in nature to something with variables that you do not know, whilst the rules are still deterministic in nature.

It is all just a matter of complexity and quantity and quality of unknown variables.

Chess isn't a puzzle because the opponent is nondeterministic. So you'd definitely need to make the AI nondeterministic to get a similar experience.

A Human is deterministic as an opponent as long as the rules he uses are, are you suggesting that a human player acts random?

You do not need randomness to have a game that is not a puzzle.