Recommend a Pathfinder Kingmaker build/party for me

[J1M]

EDIT: Link to the party I went with: viewtopic.php?p=231290-recommend-a-path ... me#p231290

When I tried to play Pathfinder Kingmaker previously I got filtered by the character creator. I spent hours creating characters in that fantastic UI by hacking the save file so I could plan out all 20 levels for a party of mercs. By the time I had crafted a full party I lost interest in the game part of the game.

Since I've heard this is a pretty long game I'd like some input on which builds would actually be fun and not useless.

Some builds that I was interested in:

• Grenadier Alchemist 20 - haven't played a 3.5 game with an alchemist class, seems fairly distinct from other classes
• Duelist 7/Rogue 4/Paladin 2/Magus 1/Monk 1 - evasion tank, not sure what I would do with the last 5 levels or if this is even a viable front-line character
• Hospitaler Paladin 18/Monk 2 - melee damage, don't remember why this was interesting aside from Aura of Life granting immunity to death magic
• Inquisitor Monster Tactician 20 - sounded very weird, but summoning meat shields should be useful?
• Arcane Trickster 10/Rogue 1/Wizard 9 - daggers dealing top damage doesn't sit well with me, but traps are a thing so a rogue that is also a blaster mage sounded good

Concepts that I'd be interested in but doubt would be viable:

• Ranger or Barbarian character dual-wielding hatchets, capable of flanking but mostly about throwing axes. I expect throwing weapons would simply be too expensive compared to arrows (unless magic thrown weapons automatically return like 4e)
• Paladin with ranged attacks (and smites?)
• Dual-shield fighter, not supported unless there's a pathfinder rule I'm unaware of
• Arcane Archer (Magus?), not sure if this is worth the complexity over just building a fighter
• Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

[rusty_shackleford]

Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

There's the Kineticist.

[Oyster Sauce]

giant fauchard crit built
giant fauchard crit built
giant fauchard crit built
giant fauchard crit built
giant fauchard crit built
giant fauchard crit built
don't forget blind fighting!

[rusty_shackleford]

BTW

When I tried to play Pathfinder Kingmaker previously I got filtered by the character creator. I spent hours creating characters in that fantastic UI by hacking the save file so I could plan out all 20 levels for a party of mercs. By the time I had crafted a full party I lost interest in the game part of the game.

IIRC, one of the DLCs starts you at level 20?

[J1M]

Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

There's the Kineticist.

Is this essentially a blaster caster with a lot of complexity?

[rusty_shackleford]

Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

There's the Kineticist.

Is this essentially a blaster caster with a lot of complexity?

I think the 3 subclasses all play fairly differently. One of them is a melee? Another is one of the rare few builds that uses CON for damage?
Sorry, it has been a while since I played it.

[Acrux]

Concepts that I'd be interested in but doubt would be viable:

• Ranger or Barbarian character dual-wielding hatchets, capable of flanking but mostly about throwing axes. I expect throwing weapons would simply be too expensive compared to arrows (unless magic thrown weapons automatically return like 4e)
• Paladin with ranged attacks (and smites?)
• Dual-shield fighter, not supported unless there's a pathfinder rule I'm unaware of
• Arcane Archer (Magus?), not sure if this is worth the complexity over just building a fighter
• Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

Don't worry about thrown weapon ammo. It doesn't work like that in the game. There are several unique throwing weapons. Dual weilding throwing axes is best and you'll want high STR.

There's a ranged paladin archetype, Divine Hunter.

If you want a ranged magus, use Eldritch Archer archetype. You can also combine that with a rogue for ranged sneak attack spells. Mythic sneak attack abilities make it much better

[J1M]

Concepts that I'd be interested in but doubt would be viable:

• Ranger or Barbarian character dual-wielding hatchets, capable of flanking but mostly about throwing axes. I expect throwing weapons would simply be too expensive compared to arrows (unless magic thrown weapons automatically return like 4e)
• Paladin with ranged attacks (and smites?)
• Dual-shield fighter, not supported unless there's a pathfinder rule I'm unaware of
• Arcane Archer (Magus?), not sure if this is worth the complexity over just building a fighter
• Psionics, don't think this exists in Kingmaker

Don't worry about thrown weapon ammo. It doesn't work like that in the game. There are several unique throwing weapons. Dual weilding throwing axes is best and you'll want high STR.

There's a ranged paladin archetype, Divine Hunter.

If you want a ranged magus, use Eldritch Archer archetype. You can also combine that with a rogue for ranged sneak attack spells. Mythic sneak attack abilities make it much better

Is this a troll post? https://pathfinderkingmaker.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons

[rusty_shackleford]

Is this a troll post? https://pathfinderkingmaker.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons

Since he mentioned mythic, he might have been referring to WotR?

[Acrux]

Is this a troll post? https://pathfinderkingmaker.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons

Since he mentioned mythic, he might have been referring to WotR?

Oh, yeah, I had stepped away and forgot it was for Kingmaker. Other than mythic, everything else I said stands.

[J1M]

Is this a troll post? https://pathfinderkingmaker.wiki.fextralife.com/Weapons

Since he mentioned mythic, he might have been referring to WotR?

Oh, yeah, I had stepped away and forgot it was for Kingmaker. Other than mythic, everything else I said stands.

Can you elaborate on how you would build a dual axe thrower? I'm not seeing a lot of support for it in the weapon list.

[boot]

Shield bash slayer

Rogue15 fighter5 use dueling swords, weapon training gauntlets are good, and there is a sword (arcane enforcer?) that applies 2x sneak attack damage

[Tangerine]

Run a team of all paladins.

[J1M]

There's the Kineticist.

Is this essentially a blaster caster with a lot of complexity?

I think the 3 subclasses all play fairly differently. One of them is a melee? Another is one of the rare few builds that uses CON for damage?
Sorry, it has been a while since I played it.

Spent some time looking at it tonight. A Pathfinder Kineticist is mechanically a 3.5 Warlock with an elemental theming applied instead of a fey/devil patron. Most of the abilities are about modifying the blast spell-like ability into different elements and shapes. Different subclasses allow you to pick CON or another ability for a damage modifier, but attacks are based on DEX.

I like 3.5 Warlocks, but I have picked them often, such as for NWN2, so I'm going to cut that from my list. Plus it was a bit similar in terms of party role to the Arcane Trickster I have planned:

ARCANE TRICKSTER
Race Elf
Stats (8,19,12,19,10,7)
Skills Trickery, Perception, Arcana, Mobility, Stealth
1 Wizard Hare, Evocation School, Enchantment+Necromancy Opposition, Point-Blank Shot
2 Vivisectionist Alchemist
3 Wizard Accomplished Sneak Attacker
4 Wizard
5 Arcane Trickster Precise Shot
6 Arcane Trickster
7 Arcane Trickster Ray Weapon Focus
8 Arcane Trickster
9 Arcane Trickster Empower Spell
10 Arcane Trickster
11 Arcane Trickster Maximize Spell
12 Arcane Trickster
13 Arcane Trickster Blind Fight
14 Arcane Trickster
15 Wizard Spell Penetration
16 Wizard
17 Wizard Greater Spell Penetration
18 Wizard
19 Wizard Toughness
20 Wizard

Most people would probably take the Sneak Attack level first, but I think a level of Wizard first is better in Kingmaker since there's no "skills x4 at first level" in that game and I'll be able to avoid being some kind of peasant weapon user for one level that way. Vivisectionist is an alternative way to get Sneak Attack and since I don't intend to get Rogue 2 for Evasion, the Mutagen 1/day is better than what the Rogue can offer. Even if you like the Rogue weapon proficiencies, Elf will cover those.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm pretty sure you're into buildfag stuff so you probably won't like this suggestion, but if you just wanted to play the game, I enjoyed playing as a fighter with a bow. it was very simple to build and effective, shame there's no archer subclass.

[J1M]

I'm pretty sure you're into buildfag stuff so you probably won't like this suggestion, but if you just wanted to play the game, I enjoyed playing as a fighter with a bow. it was very simple to build and effective, shame there's no archer subclass.

I'm less interested in creating a character that has 80 AC and more interested in playing something I haven't done before mechanically.

A fighter with a bow is a concept that I like. Was it supported enough that you were able to use heavy armor and add STR to damage (composite bow or feat)?

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm pretty sure you're into buildfag stuff so you probably won't like this suggestion, but if you just wanted to play the game, I enjoyed playing as a fighter with a bow. it was very simple to build and effective, shame there's no archer subclass.

I'm less interested in creating a character that has 80 AC and more interested in playing something I haven't done before.

A fighter with a bow is a concept that I like. Was it supported enough that you were able to use heavy armor and add STR to damage (composite bow or feat)?

I don't have that much memory of how I built it, it was my first playthru right as the game released.
I definitely remember using the named acid bow at some point, and looking at it on the wiki it's a composite longbow, so yes, definitely strength with composite bows. Presumably I used heavy armor. If I had to guess, it's because most of the rest of my team likely wasn't using heavy armor so it made use of stuff that would otherwise go to waste.

---

I'm really negative on how strong DEX is in 3.5e/PF.

[J1M]

I'm pretty sure you're into buildfag stuff so you probably won't like this suggestion, but if you just wanted to play the game, I enjoyed playing as a fighter with a bow. it was very simple to build and effective, shame there's no archer subclass.

I'm less interested in creating a character that has 80 AC and more interested in playing something I haven't done before.

A fighter with a bow is a concept that I like. Was it supported enough that you were able to use heavy armor and add STR to damage (composite bow or feat)?

I don't have that much memory of how I built it, it was my first playthru right as the game released.
I definitely remember using the named acid bow at some point, and looking at it on the wiki it's a composite longbow, so yes, definitely strength with composite bows. Presumably I used heavy armor. If I had to guess, it's because most of the rest of my team likely wasn't using heavy armor so it made use of stuff that would otherwise go to waste.

---

I'm really negative on how strong DEX is in 3.5e/PF.

Yeah, even a character like a paladin that should potentially use a lot of STR is all about CHA.

I was looking at this today, and I'm sure the straight-forward approach is fine. Especially given the massive stat boosts on some items. But I like to tinker with character builds so I've been looking at the best way to get Hurricane Bow into a Fighter Archer (renamed from Gravity Bow). This buff changes the weapon damage of a longbow from 1d8 to 2d6 and when combined with Enlarge Person essentially shifts that 2d6 to 3d6+1 if you can accommodate the -2 to attack rolls. (An extra ~7 damage per arrow.) The main challenge is that it's a self buff and only available to a few classes.

Probably the least desirable option would be to take 4+ Ranger levels to get spellcasting, but at that point you are playing a Ranger, not a Fighter or the game is over. The sweet spot for Fighter levels is probably around 13 to pick up Greater Weapon Specialization and the weapon training options that boost saves. This route would only give you 1 cast/day for Ranger 4 and 12 WIS or 2 casts/day for Ranger 5.

Next up would be putting 12 in INT and splashing a level in Wizard. This is better because you can do it at any time, and it's a much smaller investment (costs the Fighter capstone and 1 BAB). You also get an extra skill point each level using this route. Still limited to 2 casts/day.

To get the casts per day up, going for 12 CHA instead opens up a one level dip in Sorcerer as an option. There's also an interesting racial option when doing this, by going with a Generic Tiefling, the -2 CHA racial penalty is ignored by taking a level in Sorcerer as long as you pick the right bloodline. Probably more of a flavor choice, but you can start with (16,19,12,10,10,12) which is counterintuitively better than if you went with the +2DEX/+2CHA/-2INT Tiefling flavor instead. Strange that there are options with double mental stat bonuses but none with STR+DEX. Gives 4 casts/day, which is probably enough.

The final class dip solution to picking up Hurricane Bow is Rogue variant class Eldritch Scoundrel. Basically the same idea as the Wizard dip, except you can go to Eldritch Scoundrel 2 for Evasion and 3 casts/day if you want. Probably the overall best option with regards to these class dips.

If you are wondering why I didn't mention the Eldritch Archer Magus variant it's because Hurricane Bow isn't on their spell list. Which seems like quite the oversight considering it is the most thematically appropriate class to have a transmutation spell that improves archery.

There is one more option. The one that I intend to try is relying on the Use Magic Device skill to cast Hurricane Bow from wands and scrolls. This will require a DC of ~20, so to be able to do that reliably early in the game implies taking a Skill Focus feat. With the feat plus 10 levels of skill points, that's +16 or more to UMD checks. Normally, needing an extra feat implies Human as the racial choice since it gives a free feat. In this case both Human and Half-Elf can provide +2 DEX and Skill Focus (UMD), so it's a choice between either one extra skill point per level or Keen Senses and Elven Immunities. I'm leaning towards Half-Elf being better because unlike NWN I don't think there are skills that translate into AC or save bonuses. Unlimited casts per day assuming you can find a vendor and have gold. (No crafting in Kingmaker without mods.) Plus this is the only option that doesn't cost 1 BAB and leaves open the option of making both INT and CHA dump stats.

Next I'll look at all the full BAB options to see if there is anything worth multiclassing into. Also considering putting some stat boosts into STR instead of pure DEX as conventional wisdom would dictate since doing so would be similar to having an "Improved Deadly Aim" feat without a feat cost.

TLDR: Fighter 13 + UMD and now I need to decide what to do with the other 7 levels.

[J1M]

Forgot to take into account arcane spell failure.

This is what I have so far. Maybe someone can suggest something useful for level 20. The ability scores are a little extreme, but take advantage of the fact that you still get 1 skill point even at -2 modifier (plus 1 for human racial).

Truthfully the build is somewhat 'done' at level 13. After that I just went for full BAB classes that had good passives. There's probably something better that doesn't involve sneak attack (which I have been avoiding) in a class with a BAB penalty (probably a Cleric domain... ugh). I was somewhat avoiding spellcasting for this one, but with 7 levels to play with, maybe it would be possible to make something like Arcane Pool or Divine Weapon Bond work. That's really what I like about the Arcane Archer concept. Not delivering spells via arrows, but the idea that the archer can modify their arrow for what is needed that day (fire, goblin bane, axiomatic and so on). WotR has Zen Archers so maybe that is possible there via Ki Strike but I'm less interested in epic levels.

TLDR: Since we are overflowing with feats we should probably just go the Eldritch Scoundrel route and grab Evasion that way.

► Show Spoiler

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ARCHER
Race	Human	
Stats	(16,19,14,7,11,10)	
Skills	Athletics, UMD	
1	Fighter	UMD Skill Focus, Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2	Fighter	Rapid Shot
3	Fighter	Longbow Weapon Focus
4	Fighter	Longbow Weapon Specialization
5	Fighter	Point-Blank Master, Bows Weapon Training
6	Fighter	Manyshot
7	Fighter	Clustered Shot
8	Fighter	Longbow Greater Weapon Focus
9	Fighter	Deadly Aim, Armed Bravery
10	Fighter	Improved Critical
11	Fighter	Hammer the Gap
12	Fighter	Longbow Greater Weapon Specialization
13	Fighter	Improved Precise Shot, Fighter's Reflexes
14	Hospitaler Paladin	
15	Hospitaler Paladin	[Divine Grace], Blind Fight
16	Hospitaler Paladin	[Aura of Courage], Fatigued Mercy
17	Traditional Monk	Deflect Arrows, Diehard
18	Traditional Monk	[Evasion], Dodge
19	Hospitaler Paladin	[Channel Positive Energy], Toughness
20	TBD	TBD

[J1M]

Arbitrary Constraints:
-Archer that can make use of Gravity Bow aka Hurricane Bow (personal buff on limited spell lists) and Enlarge Person (possibly via ally) to increase composite longbow weapon damage from 1d8 to 3d6+1 (~4.5 to ~11.5).
-To stay on brand, the gravity archer uses heavy armor.

Note: There's no arcane spell failure for casting a scroll/wand, so that's where most of our buffs will come from. You don't need UMD to cast from them due to the level in Sorcerer.

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GRAVITY ARCHER
Race	Aasimar	Plumekith
Stats	(16,19,16,7,12,7) (14 CON if building a 20-point buy character)
Skills	Athletics	
1	Fighter	Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2	Empyreal Sorcerer (WIS spellcasting)	Combat Casting, Hurricane Bow, Enlarge Person
3	Fighter	Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus
4	Fighter	
5	Fighter	Point-Blank Master, Weapon Specialization
6	Fighter	Bows
7	Fighter	Manyshot, Clustered Shots
8	Fighter	
9	Fighter	Deadly Aim, Greater Weapon Focus
10	Fighter	Armed Bravery
11	Fighter	Wings, Improved Critical
12	Fighter	
13	Fighter	Improved Precise Shot, Greater Weapon Specialization
14	Fighter	Fighter's Reflexes
15	Traditional Monk	Diehard, Blind Fight
16	Traditional Monk	[Evasion], Deflect Arrows
17	Fighter	Toughness, Hammer the Gap
18	Fighter	
19	Fighter	Critical Focus, Blinding Critical
20	Fighter	Trained Initiative
Saves	+16/+15/+15
HP	222

Monk could be taken earlier if you find you need Blind Fight or Evasion earlier.
The last 4 feats could be changed. Longbows don't crit often and the offensive benefits are mainly attained by level 14.
Given the number of optional feats, Ranger might just be a superior way to go about this.

[J1M]

Looked into a pure Ranger version of this idea this morning. It's probably stronger by level 19, especially with the pet and extra skills, and doesn't require a Hurricane Bow wand, but the archery feats feel significantly delayed compared to the fighter version and the saves suck. Especially if you were to actually take heavy armor proficiency before level 19.

[rusty_shackleford]

Looked into a pure Ranger version of this idea this morning. It's probably stronger by level 19, especially with the pet and extra skills, and doesn't require a Hurricane Bow wand, but the archery feats feel significantly delayed compared to the fighter version and the saves suck. Especially if you were to actually take heavy armor proficiency before level 19.

There's also a ranger companion depending on if you're using mercs or not I suppose

[J1M]

Update: The Gravity Archer build was pretty good at level 3. Can attack multiple times per round and having Hurricane Bow at level 2 is way more useful than having it when the ranger gets it. But at level 4 a number of DR enemies started appearing which is going to leave it feeling weak until at least level 7 when you can take Clustered Shots. The ability to deal a choice of elemental damage and disable traps has the Arcane Trickster feeling better overall.

Of the choices I made, two of them have been standing out as real MVPs. First is a fairly standard Grenadier Alchemist. Once I realized I could combine Alchemical weapon with bombs it became the damage powerhouse of the team. Capable of a reliable ~30 damage on a single target and free splash damage too. The other was a monster tactician build focusing on summons and team feats to clog up the field.

Not really happy with the paladin I made that has Trip yet. Seems to have some potential. Maybe some more feats will make it more reliable.

[J1M]

Eventually settled on a core party of 4 mercs that can handle anything with two open slots for companions for specific quests or just to act as cheerleaders.

The game plan is to charge + trip everything and rely on summons and animal companions to soak hits.

1. Mad Dog Barbarian: animal companion, enlarged reach weapon, charge with full attack
2. Monster Tactician Inquisitor: animal companion, summons buffed with teamwork feats
3. Archer Ranger: animal companion, top single-target damage
4. Grenadier Alchemist: ignore spell resistance, consistent on-demand damage, splash damage, multiple damage types

Combat is a breeze with this group. The three animal companions are so strong you've basically added 3 Fighters to the group. The party will become exhausted from travel before they run out of resources. The only way I know of to alleviate this would be to add a Paladin to the group for the Lay on Hands rider that removes those conditions. There is no Paladin flavor that offers an animal companion, so just add it as a 5th core member.

The Leopard is the best animal companion. It has Pounce, which allows it to perform a full attack after charging, significantly increasing its damage. Also, similar to a Dog, it attempts to trip the target with its first attack. So against a weaker foe or with some good rolls, your pet can use its turn to charge 100 feet across the battlefield, knock down an enemy (forcing a wasted move action next turn and an opportunity attack) and hit it multiple times. This party has 3 leopards.

1. The focus of the Barbarian is being able to attack over the front line with a reach weapon and increasing the damage that will do by getting the Beast Totem rage powers so he has the same Pounce ability as the animal companion. Enlarge person is somewhat mandatory for increased reach, but it will also increase damage dice. Other buffs worth considering are Leaded Blades and Bull's Strength. Recommend light armor for movement speed.

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TORZAN
Class Barbarian (Mad Dog)
Race	Human
Stats	(19,16,14,7,10,7)
Skills	Athletics, UMD, Perception
1	Power Attack, Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Fauchard
2	
3	Combat Reflexes
4	Beast Totem 1
5	Outflank
6	
7	Blind Fight
8	Beast Totem 2
9	Improved Critical
10	
11	Beast Totem 3
12	Lethal Stance 1
13	Sieze the Moment
14	
15	Lethal Stance 2
16	Lethal Stance 3

2. The tactician brings summons similar to a full caster, but they are stronger due to the teamwork feat traits, can heal or remove status effects, and with a simple reach weapon like a spear can do some decent melee damage thanks to Bane. His leopard will be stronger than the others, if you care to know which is which you can mark it with the Light cantrip. Due to the summoner feats, you generally want to use a summon spell that gives you more than one creature.

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PATCH
Class	Inquisitor (Monster Tactician)
Race	Human
Stats	(17,14,14,7,16,7)
Skills	Perception, Religion, Nature, Mobility
1	Erastil, Animal Domain, Spell Focus: Conjuration, Augment Summoning
2	
3	Superior Summoning, Precision Strike
4	Leopard
5	Boon Companion
6	Outflank
7	Blind Fight
8	
9	Combat Reflexes, Seize the Moment
10	
11	Martial Weapon Proficiency (I didn't find any simple +3 reach weapons)
12	Coordinated Maneuvers
13	Shake It Off
14	
15	???, Back to Back
16	

3. The main thing to note here is just how important Clustered Shots is. This feat will give you 30+ extra damage for a full-round attack when an enemy has damage reduction. The other thing to note is that we do not want Deadly Aim. It's a "win more" choice and won't help with fighting higher level creatures. Prefer a bow with elemental damage dice on it over a higher enhancement bonus due to the number of arrows that will hit. Prepare Hurricane Bow in all of your level 2 spell slots. Also pre-buff with Enlarge Person. This will bring up the base damage of your weapon significantly since it will be treated as two sizes larger. The build is basically complete at level 11 so do whatever you please with the feats after that.

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ARCHER
Class	Ranger (classic)
Race	Human
Stats	(16,19,14,7,14,7)
Skills	Stealth, Trickery, Mobility, Nature
1	Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot
2	Rapid Shot
3	Weapon Focus - Longbow
4	Leopard
5	Boon Companion
6	Point-Blank Master
7	Clustered Shots
8	
9	Blind Fight
10	Manyshot
11	Improved Precise Shot
12	
13	Critical Focus
14	Improved Critical
15	Blinding Critical
16	

4. My favorite class in Kingmaker. Has interesting options without being overly complicated. Can learn spells from scrolls to provide buffs like Enlarge Person or prepare healing for topping people up between encounters. Pair with a Speed weapon for an extra bomb throw on full attack. When other classes are unable to hit something, the Alchemist has a reliable answer to shut down a monster. I made this the player character because I found a portrait I liked.

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BOMBER
Class	Alchemist (Grenadier)
Race	Human
Stats	(12,16,12,19,12,7)
Skills	Arcana, World, UMD, Trickery, Perception, Persuasion
1	Extra Bombs, Extra Bombs
2	Tanglefoot Bombs
3	Point-Blank Shot
4	Explosive Bombs
5	Precise Shot
6	Infusion
7	Ability Focus - Bombs
8	Fast Bombs
9	Rapid Shot
10	Force Bombs
11	Extra Bombs
12	Blinding Bombs
13	Extra Bombs
14	Cognatogen 1
15	Extra Bombs
16	Cognatogen 2

[Valter]

Godspeed you lunatic, this game was hard.

[Humbaba]

Godspeed you lunatic, this game was hard.

Will never forget how hard I got buttfucked by the difficulty spike in the last act because I didn't spec into blind fight. Lantern King is to date the biggest ******** boss ever, only topped by Mebrilia Areelu in Wrathfinder but at least her you can talk out of her second phase.

[rusty_shackleford]

it's full of random ""difficulty"" spikes in the form of arbitrarily highly statted creatures

[Humbaba]

Git gud

[rusty_shackleford]

copy broken builds from online and steamroll the game*

[J1M]

copy broken builds from online and steamroll the game*

I wouldn't consider any of the builds I suggested as broken. They aren't some high AC build that dips into 4 different classes to pick up stacking dodge AC bonuses.