Tim Cain says there are no bad games only different preferences and budgets... Agree? Disagree?

[NotAI]

He keeps suggesting this on YT. Somebody can link to it.

That bad games don't exist, you just don't like them, other people do, it's just all design choices and budgets.

Most people in the game industry are amazing; they rarely make mistakes. There are just different audiences.

So the games industry is just very different from every other industry. This is the proposed theory.

Agree?

Disagree?

Vote!

He also asked for a counterargument.

[Irenaeus]

He's so gay

[rusty_shackleford]

Maybe he's heard of a game called Outer Worlds?

[Shillitron]

If my last game was The Outer Worlds - I'd try to argue there's no such thing as a bad game too.

[KnightoftheWind]

Of course this ****** believes in relativism. What a shocker.

[WhiteShark]

He's confusing preference with quality. Quality is stuff like being bug-free, having consistent gameplay, a coherent setting, an appealing and thematically consistent art style and score, reasonable challenge, and so on. There are many reasons why an individual may like a bad game and dislike a good game, like genre or theme. These have nothing to do with the quality of the game. This is so obvious that it should go without saying, but unfortunately relativists exist.

[aweigh]

i'm starting to hate tim cain.

[NotAI]

I still like him. I like Arcanum and there is no such thing as a bad Arcanum person. (My argument. Prove me wrong.)

Half the videos are good, several are...well, they just are. We shall not speak of those.

The no bad games argument, just preferences, is so easily disputed, that, I suspect, it is for job reasons.

If he says bad games exist and most recent games are bad games, he won't be hired to consult anymore.

Then he'll have no option but to make his own indie games.

That being said he should just make his own Vampire Survivors clone. There are like five of those. Well, there should be six.

[DagothGeas5]

I disagree that there are no bad games. People usually only enjoy a specific part of a bad game, then cope that the game "wasn't that bad" and gloss over the countless wasted hours.

When I still did not know what woke was or what was going on in the world, I wanted to try Dragon Age Inquisition. If you asked me back then if it was a good game, I would have said "yes" not because I believe it, but because I truly was gripping tight to trying to love this game, and still held hope and made excuses all throughout my time with it to hope the game would be as good as I imagined it sooner or later. And so I kept playing, even though deep down I wasn't having fun, even though the amount of fucks effort I noticed they put in the game

► Show Spoiler

was stoking more and more my feeling of not being welcomed to play the game, just welcome to spend money on it, and that my "job" was done the moment I gave them the price they asked for what it's no longer called game, but "product".
When I noticed there was some sort of counter (forget where it was) that said I had played over 100 hours exploring and wasting time in endless, meaningless, repetitive battles full of jokesters and no gravity, did I realize the bad in that game was too much for me to enjoy it, and the excuses stopped.

It's like eating a cake with hidden pieces of **** in it. The cake will never be good, no matter how sweet it was in-between **** bites, and the amount of **** bites in many of the "modern" games are so much that it is just **** with hints of cake.

[Xenich]

He keeps suggesting this on YT. Somebody can link to it.

That bad games don't exist, you just don't like them, other people do, it's just all design choices and budgets.

Most people in the game industry are amazing; they rarely make mistakes. There are just different audiences.

So the games industry is just very different from every other industry. This is the proposed theory.

Agree?

Disagree?

Vote!

He also asked for a counterargument.

He is making such a dishonest and low intellect argument which is obviously pandering to most of the mainstream idiots they push their garbage off to.

[Vergil]

I don't really care about Tim Gayne's opinions or views outside of getting cool stories about working on Fallout/Troika's games. He's a literal aging homosexual shitlib what did you think he thought?

[Xenich]

Of course this ****** believes in relativism. What a shocker.

This hits the nail on the head I think.

The first thing that gets thrown out these days is the basics of what a game is. While a game can be entertainment, a game itself is not entertainment. This one kills me the most as it is the excuse that is used to justify any type of failed design (Games need to be fun! Entertaining! blah blah blah...).

It fails to realize a game is a contest, a challenge, an objective that pits the player against an obstacle and it needs to be properly designed to fill this design requirement. People who like what a game is, will find a game "fun", "entertaining", etc... depending on its style.

Outside of poorly executed goals in a games development, the biggest failure is this need to make entertainment over that of the game. They make a strategy game and all of the elements that define the basic genre of this style are pushed aside while they attempt to "fun" the game up all the while killing the game for those who find the "strategy" design the point of the fun.

You see this constantly with the destruction of MMO games over the years as they were changed from "games", to that of "entertainment" to keep the witless occupied chasing low hanging fruit.

I miss the days where the lines were more clearly drawn between game genres and they specifically defined the overall focus of play to which the developer concentrated on. These days, games are just a hodgepodge of useless half measures trying to pander to the lowest common denominator and missing the boat on every area they try to check off. So instead of a solid Action or RPG or Adventure or Strategy game, you get an Action/RPG/Adventure/Strategy/etc... all wrapped up in the latest garbage excuse of "fun for everyone!" catering to people who have no interest in playing what a game is in the first place.

[rusty_shackleford]

reminder that the only reason fallout exists is because the marketing department rejected like 20 other **** ideas he had

[The_Mask]

Tim Cain sounds like Fluent, now.

Ugh. Is he going to be right about Kenshi, as well?

[Irenaeus]

reminder that the only reason fallout exists is because the marketing department rejected like 20 other **** ideas he had

Fallout origin story is hilarious, at some point it was a GURPS time travelling game to Dinoland or something. It's a miracle that it came out a good product.

[aweigh]

reminder that the only reason fallout exists is because the marketing department rejected like 20 other **** ideas he had

and also because Fargo personally went to bat for Cain as a personal favor and he sold the Fallout idea to the suits. Without Fargo there would be no Fallout, from Tim's own words.

[Irenaeus]

Fargo personally went to bat for Cain as a personal favor and he sold the Fallout idea to the suits. Without Fargo there would be no Fallout, from Tim's own words.

[Rand]

Tim Cain thinks having cocks in his mouth is preferable.
Opinions discarded.

[Anon]

All it took was invite him to some crap events, serve him some relatively expensive food plates, stroke his ego a bit, make him feel important... Some people sell themselves too easily and for too cheap.

[Acrux]

All it took was invite him to some crap events, serve him some relatively expensive food plates, stroke his ego a bit, make him feel important... Some people sell themselves too easily and for too cheap.

[Decline]

Every game is valid! There is no such thing as a bad game! Quality is a myth!

[madbringer]

How can a person that helped create my favourite game ever be so ********? This is very sad.

[gerey]

How can a person that helped create my favourite game ever be so ********?

He is a ******.

[Cogemeister]

Maybe he's heard of a game called Outer Worlds?

Outer Worlds is a better RPG than Starfield, Forspoken, and Redfall put together. Not the best example lol.

[aweigh]

Maybe he's heard of a game called Outer Worlds?

Outer Worlds is a better RPG than Starfield, Forspoken, and Redfall put together. Not the best example lol.

it is better than those games, but it's still a bad game judged on its own. it especially fails to compare to previous beth games.

...maybe TOW 2 will surprise us all XD

[gerey]

Outer Worlds is a better RPG than Starfield, Forspoken, and Redfall put together.

That's not the "gotcha" you think it is. Forspoken and Redfall were so awful that they sunk their respective studios with them, and Starfield is widely regarded as one of the most embarrassing falls from grace in the history of gaming.

Compared to that, of course a piece of **** like Outer Worlds will look marginally better.

[Cogemeister]

Outer Worlds is a better RPG than Starfield, Forspoken, and Redfall put together.

That's not the "gotcha" you think it is. Forspoken and Redfall were so awful that they sunk their respective studios with them, and Starfield is widely regarded as one of the most embarrassing falls from grace in the history of gaming.

Compared to that, of course a piece of **** like Outer Worlds will look marginally better.

I’m not meaning it as a gotchya, just that in recent years Outer Worlds is a better RPG than many other games, which is pretty sad/ telling. I’ve only been playing Indie games as of late, which is fine but I’m still holding out that a good AAA rpg comes out.

[Cogemeister]

Maybe he's heard of a game called Outer Worlds?

Outer Worlds is a better RPG than Starfield, Forspoken, and Redfall put together. Not the best example lol.

it is better than those games, but it's still a bad game judged on its own. it especially fails to compare to previous beth games.

...maybe TOW 2 will surprise us all XD

Not to be a doomer, but I doubt it. They could have written a good story in TOW but decided not to and instead went for a “le evil vs heckin wholesome” plot (albeit you can play as the board) instead of delving into a more grey area and the Reddit crowd ate it up. If I had to guess the plot of 2 will be much of the same, ‘evil capitalists’ and whatnot.

[Cipher]

The day this ****** streams and records himself doing a 100% run of "Goodbye Volcano High" I may give it a second thought.

On the other hand, maybe he really identifies with this "game".

[rusty_shackleford]

just that in recent years Outer Worlds is a better RPG than many other games,

released 2019
so, off the top of my head

Enderal:Forgotten Stories, Archolos, Greedfall, Operencia, Pathfinder: Kingmaker, Grim Dawn, Wasteland 3, Naheulbeuk, Troubleshooter, ATOM RPG, ATOM RPG: Trudograd, Soylasta, King Arthur: Knight's Tale, BG3, Caves of Lore

[edit]
And I'm probably setting the bar way higher than it needs to be to be better than Outerworlds, a lot of mediocre RPGs released since then too.