Loghain was the good guy, actually.

[KOS-MOS]

Duncan told them it was a blight.

And Cailan didn't believe him.

They didn't know the archdemon wasn't there.

Loghain explicitly states there were no sightings of dragons in the area.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Grey Wardens can also sense the presence of an Archdemon. So Duncan might have known it wasn't there.

[rusty_shackleford]

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

[DagothGeas5]

Duncan told them it was a blight.

And Cailan didn't believe him.

They didn't know the archdemon wasn't there.

Loghain explicitly states there were no sightings of dragons in the area.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Grey Wardens can also sense the presence of an Archdemon. So Duncan might have known it wasn't there.

That is a good point. He did seem to feel it in the opening scene, or at least feel something was very off, that I recall of it, and I recall Alistair mentioning Duncan had been starting to dream of the Archdemon (when the Greywardens start to die from the Joining's effects), so did he feel it keenly or did he just sense him somewhat? This is fascinating especially because of the location the Archdemon was in the end, which was not near Ostagar, and I recall the Archdemon was simply lying about until the cutscene dream happens where he takes flight after ammassing enough strength that I recall.

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

Is there a reason why he didn't explained anywhere? Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically? I can't recall where the Free Marches are, but I believe Antiva is located much further from Ferelden than Orlais.

[Big Red Dog]

Here's a thought experiment:

evil hell monsters want to rape everyone in your country to death and your king wants to kill them.
do you
A. kill the bad guys
B. do nothing
C. activley plot to kill your king and let the evil monsters destroy all of your countrymen and turn the land into a hellscape

if you picked C you are loghain in dragon age origins

[fkirenicus]

they would have won the battle in he joined anyways so it doesn't even matter

Even with Loghain's army, they were outnumbered 3:1(this is stated ingame.) The archdemon was nowhere near Ostagar, as you learn during Paragon of Her Kind which happens far later. At best, a victory would have meant sacrificing most of your army to defeat enemies that are rapidly replenished. Woohoo!

Actually, if memory series, Bownammar/Dead Trenches isn't that far from Ostagar, provided one has discovered a route up the surface (which the darkspawn obviousmy had). Look at a map of Ferelden which also shows the Deep Roads in comparison.
Presumably Urthemiel could direct her darkspawn from underground, hence "no dragons have been sighted...".

[rusty_shackleford]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

[fkirenicus]

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

Yes, but the wardens of Orlais were nearer, and Duncan was worried that time was running short.
I suspect that at the time of writing Free Marches were considered "farther" than Orlais in the sense that no one involved in the writing thought of having the wardens coming from that direction. Also, as others have stated below, the sheer number of wardens required or wished for made boats a somewhat futile means of transport. (if speed was crucial, at any rate)

[rusty_shackleford]

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

Yes, but the wardens of Orlais were nearer, and Duncan was worried that time was running short.

But he knew he was asking for the impossible and couldn't even give any hard evidence that it was a blight beyond "bro, believe me bro"

[DagothGeas5]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.

This is even more strange then, though I would also contact the ones on foot first, more reliable than hoping for no storms and strong winds for the others to arrive without delay. Still, I recall Duncan saying the reinforcements were late as well or something, could he not have also called for the Free Marches in the meanwhile? Or did he do it and it's not shown in-game? (they could have made it a plot for the other games that there was something going on in the Free Marches, but I have a feeling they just REALLY wanted Orlais, especially after that Leliana DLC).

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

Yes, but the wardens of Orlais were nearer, and Duncan was worried that time was running short.

But he knew he was asking for the impossible and couldn't even give any hard evidence that it was a blight beyond "bro, believe me bro"

Could it be Free Marches told him to sod off and he was left with only Orlais?

[Big Red Dog]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

the free marches have to pass the southern mountains with full supply wagons then load them all onto ships and sail across the sea then assemble new supply caravans then set off to ostagar, and their ships will have to constantly bring in new supplies
orlais has to walk to the north of the mountains with their supply train and then march to ostagar with an intact supply line

[rusty_shackleford]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

the free marches have to pass the southern mountains with full supply wagons then load them all onto ships and sail across the sea then assemble new supply caravans then set off to ostagar, and their ships will have to constantly bring in new supplies
orlais has to walk to the north of the mountains with their supply train and then march to ostagar with an intact supply line

Right, guess the orlais should have thought about that before attempting to kidnap their previous king.

---

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall that Grey Wardens can also sense the presence of an Archdemon. So Duncan might have known it wasn't there.

From going and checking, they're not even allowed to tell anyone this as part of their oath of secrecy.
That is, Loghain had to trust Duncan entirely on his word that it was a blight at all, and Duncan couldn't tell them whether the archdemon was there or not. After Ostagar, Alistair states that none of the king's advisors knew it was a blight. Nobody except the grey wardens are aware that the archdemon directs the darkspawn, again, oath of secrecy.
Nobody outside of the grey wardens knows that they're tainted or that they use blood magic for their ritual.

---

All of this makes more sense when you realize the people don't like Cailan, they love the queen, and Cailan is trying to be a war hero like Loghain to wrest control of the country from Anora/Loghain so he can marry the empress, btw. Cailan has no real power, he's a figurehead for his much more beloved wife that he wants to dispose of.

[fkirenicus]

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

the free marches have to pass the southern mountains with full supply wagons then load them all onto ships and sail across the sea then assemble new supply caravans then set off to ostagar, and their ships will have to constantly bring in new supplies
orlais has to walk to the north of the mountains with their supply train and then march to ostagar with an intact supply line

Right, guess the orlais should have thought about that before attempting to kidnap their previous king.

They did so in an age in which almost everyone thought both dragons and darkspawn extinct. :-)

[rusty_shackleford]

the free marches have to pass the southern mountains with full supply wagons then load them all onto ships and sail across the sea then assemble new supply caravans then set off to ostagar, and their ships will have to constantly bring in new supplies
orlais has to walk to the north of the mountains with their supply train and then march to ostagar with an intact supply line

Right, guess the orlais should have thought about that before attempting to kidnap their previous king.

They did so in an age in which almost everyone thought both dragons and darkspawn extinct. :-)

They were working directly with darkspawn ­— the architect. So were the grey wardens.
Loghain was justified in not trusting them.

[Big Red Dog]

if you give yourself a lobotomy loghain actually makes full sense and isnt ******** and evil

[Tweed]

Are these people the new shroomheads?

[DagothGeas5]

Are these people the new shroomheads?

Proud chalice-head

[rusty_shackleford]

also if you put the ******* on the throne that means you gave ferelden to a half-elf mutt and practically guaranteed a civil war if the sequels didn't go so gay

yes, alistair is a half knife ear

[DagothGeas5]

also if you put the ******* on the throne that means you gave ferelden to a half-elf mutt and practically guaranteed a civil war if the sequels didn't go so gay

yes, alistair is a half knife ear

Wasn't Alistair's mother an elf from Orlais also or am I remembering wrong? Though I really do not consider Inquisition as anything canon, I recall she was a mage and with an Orlaisian accent there.

[boot]

Loghain didn't even have a strong character build, he was a champion warrior with like 34 strength gtfo of here

[Oyster Sauce]

*shits pants and does nothing*
Truly the greatest tactical mastermind of our era....

[Roguey]

Loghain being right about Ostagar doesn't make up for him being so wrong about everything else afterwards.

The guy sends people to kill you, even hiring that *** Zevran.

[J1M]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

Waterways were the highways before asphalt.

[J1M]

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

Yes, but the wardens of Orlais were nearer, and Duncan was worried that time was running short.
I suspect that at the time of writing Free Marches were considered "farther" than Orlais in the sense that no one involved in the writing thought of having the wardens coming from that direction. Also, as others have stated below, the sheer number of wardens required or wished for made boats a somewhat futile means of transport.

I see I've reached the dumbest statement in the thread.

[J1M]

Kinda shocked how many people did not view Loghain as a strict voice actor upgrade for their party.

[fkirenicus]

Right, guess the orlais should have thought about that before attempting to kidnap their previous king.

They did so in an age in which almost everyone thought both dragons and darkspawn extinct. :-)

They were working directly with darkspawn ­— the architect. So were the grey wardens.
Loghain was justified in not trusting them.

Ah, my bad , sorry - thought you referred to Stolen Throne. Of course, you meant the events of Calling. Disregard that previous statement.

[fkirenicus]

Was it just because Orlais was closer geographically?

Free Marches is actually closer depending on whether you think mountains or water is harder to pass.
https://f.rpghq.org/QFAwbsTAfd37.avif?n=ThedasMap.avif

Waterways were the highways before asphalt.

Ehh.... In the real world, yes.
Asphalt? You realize we're speaking of Thedas, here? In Thedas there is the Imperial Highway built by Tevinter. So no, travelling by boat from Frree Marches was probably not a more valid option.

[fkirenicus]

I see I've reached the dumbest statement in the thread.

I see someone who isn't very much into neither Thedas lore nor geography is very intent on making a fool out of themselves. Too much asphalt on/in their mind, perhaps?

[fkirenicus]

also if you put the ******* on the throne that means you gave ferelden to a half-elf mutt and practically guaranteed a civil war if the sequels didn't go so gay

yes, alistair is a half knife ear

This is not entirely true - or, it depends on how you treat him during the events of 5th Blight. If you trreat him like an adult and tell him to get a grip, he turns out to be a quite capable ruler. See epilog slides.

[logincrash]

Loghain was right not to take the Wardens on their word.
First of all, there are at least two examples of the Grey Warden order trying to kill the ruling king of Ferelden (that one Dryden woman from the DLC keep and the Wardens brainfucked by the Architect in that prequel novel). The Dryden rebellion was the reason there were no Fereldan Grey Wardens in Dragon Age in the first place.
Secondly, the previous blight happened like 400 years prior to the events of the game. The kingdom of Ferelden itself was established about 20 years after that. So, it's pretty reasonable for people to be skeptical of a military order that is above the law and takes in criminals (including the blood mages) when there hasn't been a Blight since before Ferelden was even a thing.
Thirdly, the fact that the Grey Wardens don't tell the rulers of countries that they have a magical connection to the Archdemon and know for a fact when there is a Blight coming makes them ******* stupid. Nobody in their right mind would trust some foreigner when he comes in demanding armies here and recruits for his secret order there.

However, Loghain started acting like a ****** once the game actually starts. He gives the bloodthirsty Howe more and more power after helping him cull the most ancient noble house in Ferelden. He starts jailing nobles that oppose him. He starts meddling with the Chantry by stealing blood mages and imprisoning templars. He starts selling Fereldan citizens to slavery. He starts hiring assassins to cover his *** up.

► theorizing

Now, I really like one explanation for Loghain's retardation that one fanfic came up with. Remember that huge ******* complex full of Tevinter blood mages that you can accidentally stumble upon in the middle of Denerim? The one that is just a long dungeon without any story reason to be there? Well, the theory is that those blood mages have been there for a long while covertly collecting blood of nobles to destabilize Ferelden. This mind control would explain Loghain's sudden descend into moronic madness.

The best outcome of the whole thing is to harden Alistair, make him marry Anora, conscript Loghain and send him to die killing the Archdemon. That way you have the royal blood on the throne, assisted by a talented peacetime administrator, and the hero of the people Loghain dies for being a ****** traitor while saving his beloved country. Win-win-win.

► gripping about the writing

That said, the fact that female Cousland can become the queen, but the male Cousland can only become the prince-consort is some real ******* ********. Groomed for command and rulership from birth, haling from a noble family predating Ferelden, son of a man who was offered the throne before, male Cousland has as strong, if not stronger, claim on the throne than the uneducated half-elf ******* supported by the Orlais sympathizer Eamon.

[SoLong]

Duncan could have also just asked for reinforcements from anywhere but Orlais to avoid the entire issue, but didn't. Antiva or Free Marches would have been allowed to march thru Ferelden.
Specifically requesting reinforcements from a territory that he knew would be rejected is on Dunan, not Loghain.

No, it really isn't. Antiva and the Free Marches are much farther away and Orlais literally shares a border with Ferelden. Calling for help from the closest outpost is much, much more sensible then waiting for reinforcements that might be months away while an army is beating down your door.

You're really tipping your hand here, not gonna lie.

"Yes we need to save the country but only in a way that complies with one man's egocentric persecution complex! Reeeeee!"

Wasn't one of your arguments that he loves his country? Clearly not enough to not risk its complete destruction several times over.

Also, if the Orlesians want to take over they shouldn't want the Wardens to help: all they'd have to do is wait for the darkspawn to wipe out the bothersome Fereldans and then send the Wardens in to clean up the Archdemon. The entire Fereldan nobility and everyone else who could protest would be dead and the country would be theirs for the taking.

Nice job, Loghain! Luckily the Orlesians seem to realize that the plan is too stupid and evil even for them and let the Warden intervene anyway.

And before you bring up Genevieve again: The architect isn't leading the blight and is, in fact, trying to prevent them from happening again. He's just severely evil while doing so yet still manages to have a significantly lower body count then the guy you keep defending. (And killing him doesn't actually work but that's neither here nor there.) It's one of the reasons Genevieve turns on the Architect once she understands the actual costs of his plan.

When the unnatural eldritch abomination arguably has the moral high ground over your guy it is time to re-examine your priorities.