Do you consider Witcher 3 to be an RPG?

[rusty_shackleford]

To people that voted 'no':
Do you think the proliferation of "RPG elements" in the time since Witcher 3 released has made it less of an RPG?

[DemoGraph]

Sasha Grey livestreamed herself playing it, so... visual novel?

[MrTwinkls]

It's a console action game with some rpg elements and I wouldn't go as far as calling it a full fledged rpg.

[Spacekiddo]

To people that voted 'no':
Do you think the proliferation of "RPG elements" in the time since Witcher 3 released has made it less of an RPG?

It's been since the game launched that more people see that having stats and numbers go up isn't enough to say "Rpg" in my opinion. Yeah you can be a **** as Geralt or alright but it isn't truly a "choose what happens to the people, cities and the world" imo.

It's not a bad game its just the most bland vanilla thats popular

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't think I've ever seen the devs comment on it but it's obvious they had a party system planned at some point that got cut, it has an entire UI for it that's used for a brief period on one quest. Would have been neat.

[Valter]

Don't think I've ever seen the devs comment on it but it's obvious they had a party system planned at some point that got cut, it has an entire UI for it that's used for a brief period on one quest. Would have been neat.

Which quest?

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't think I've ever seen the devs comment on it but it's obvious they had a party system planned at some point that got cut, it has an entire UI for it that's used for a brief period on one quest. Would have been neat.

Which quest?

Keira Metz one, where you protect her. It's a very brief period, it would be awkward to create UI elements and connect them up for such a small segment of a single quest.

[Xenich]

I think that it is the result of the merging of genres that has been developing, probably from the first computer games, but started gaining steam with Diablo.

I haven't played it much, but seeing the discussion on combat/equipment, etc... it appears it has more in common with any typical console action game than it does with RPGs. I think you could strip out all the character development attempts that "appear" to have little effect on traditional RPG constraints and simply have an an action/adventure game that would have been fine for the same audiences that praise it.

We have already had the "what is an RPG?" discussions, and my position has always been that character development and statistical process must constrain the player or the game is simply an action game with "widgets" which Witcher 3 appears to be by the various discussion I have seen here.

Honestly, I think the term RPG in relation to computer games has devolved over the years to stamp it for marketing, though I would suspect some of the evaluation of the term also is due to the rivalry of pen and paper arguments (ie Wargame statistical vs LARP) and so that has confused computer gaming when "action" elements were introduced into base statistical mechanics of play.

I guess I have always looked at it from the position of, if a player can use action to circumvent a statistic in play (ie kludging fights using various limitations of statistical implementations within action systems) then it is not an RPG and more of an action/arcade game.

That line has been heavily blurred over the years with the increasing number of RPG systems being added to action systems and how close it is to an RPG depends more on how it is implemented and how respectful it is to those mechanics in limiting the player accordingly.

[Valter]

Don't think I've ever seen the devs comment on it but it's obvious they had a party system planned at some point that got cut, it has an entire UI for it that's used for a brief period on one quest. Would have been neat.

Which quest?

Keira Metz one, where you protect her. It's a very brief period, it would be awkward to create UI elements and connect them up for such a small segment of a single quest.

She does attack like a companion, though I see no new UI elements pertaining to her.


Regardless, there is a fleshed out companions mod so I can believe there's foundation for it.

[rusty_shackleford]

Which quest?

Keira Metz one, where you protect her. It's a very brief period, it would be awkward to create UI elements and connect them up for such a small segment of a single quest.

She does attack like a companion, though I see no new UI elements pertaining to her.


Regardless, there is a fleshed out companions mod so I can believe there's foundation for it.

And right, I forgot she also assists you like a companion for most of the quest
Feels like cut content

[TKVNC]

I think that it is the result of the merging of genres that has been developing, probably from the first computer games, but started gaining steam with Diablo.

I haven't played it much, but seeing the discussion on combat/equipment, etc... it appears it has more in common with any typical console action game than it does with RPGs. I think you could strip out all the character development attempts that "appear" to have little effect on traditional RPG constraints and simply have an an action/adventure game that would have been fine for the same audiences that praise it.

We have already had the "what is an RPG?" discussions, and my position has always been that character development and statistical process must constrain the player or the game is simply an action game with "widgets" which Witcher 3 appears to be by the various discussion I have seen here.

Honestly, I think the term RPG in relation to computer games has devolved over the years to stamp it for marketing, though I would suspect some of the evaluation of the term also is due to the rivalry of pen and paper arguments (ie Wargame statistical vs LARP) and so that has confused computer gaming when "action" elements were introduced into base statistical mechanics of play.

I guess I have always looked at it from the position of, if a player can use action to circumvent a statistic in play (ie kludging fights using various limitations of statistical implementations within action systems) then it is not an RPG and more of an action/arcade game.

That line has been heavily blurred over the years with the increasing number of RPG systems being added to action systems and how close it is to an RPG depends more on how it is implemented and how respectful it is to those mechanics in limiting the player accordingly.

A CRPG is a complex product, and it's really, a mark of quality - hence why everyone wants to call their games RPG's. Why? Because it indicates more thought in how a player interacts with the world.

Dialogue choices are not inherently RPG mechanics. Unless it gives you a way to actively affect change on a choice by choice basis - it is just LARP.

Stat progression is not inherently an RPG mechanic. Many games have stat progression, even old racing games where you swap out parts have it. They are clearly not RPG's.

Appearance customisation is also not inherently an RPG mechanic; old wrestling games had this. They are clearly not RPG's.

Throwing all that together does not make an RPG. Being able to control your character, and make tangible decisions is what makes an RPG. Whether that be choosing which quest, or choosing which equipment to take, or your party composition. That is an RPG.

You must be free to choose. You must be in a free-form environment where your choices don't simple appear different - they actually are different.

In this case, TW3 is not an RPG, it is a fantasy action adventure. Geralt has no meaningful choices at all. It is not simply an overarching plot to be solved such as a TTRPG bad villain, it's just a story you play through.

Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim force you to make choices on how you approach a threat. Dagoth Ur, Mehrunes Dagon, and Anduin. You have to overcome them eventually, but you are given many meaningful choices on how to do it.

This is not true for TW3.

[Tangerine]

To people that voted 'no':
Do you think the proliferation of "RPG elements" in the time since Witcher 3 released has made it less of an RPG?

A CRPG is a complex product, and it's really, a mark of quality - hence why everyone wants to call their games RPG's. Why? Because it indicates more thought in how a player interacts with the world.

Dialogue choices are not inherently RPG mechanics. Unless it gives you a way to actively affect change on a choice by choice basis - it is just LARP.

Stat progression is not inherently an RPG mechanic. Many games have stat progression, even old racing games where you swap out parts have it. They are clearly not RPG's.

Appearance customisation is also not inherently an RPG mechanic; old wrestling games had this. They are clearly not RPG's.

Throwing all that together does not make an RPG. Being able to control your character, and make tangible decisions is what makes an RPG. Whether that be choosing which quest, or choosing which equipment to take, or your party composition. That is an RPG.

You must be free to choose. You must be in a free-form environment where your choices don't simple appear different - they actually are different.

In this case, TW3 is not an RPG, it is a fantasy action adventure. Geralt has no meaningful choices at all. It is not simply an overarching plot to be solved such as a TTRPG bad villain, it's just a story you play through.

Morrowind, Oblivion, and Skyrim force you to make choices on how you approach a threat. Dagoth Ur, Mehrunes Dagon, and Anduin. You have to overcome them eventually, but you are given many meaningful choices on how to do it.

This is not true for TW3.

What he said.

[Irenaeus]

(...) and Skyrim force you to make choices on how you approach a threat.

Skyrim FORCED me to kill a dragon at level 1 — made me stop playing it. I'll always bring this up.

[Oyster Sauce]

Keira Metz one, where you protect her. It's a very brief period, it would be awkward to create UI elements and connect them up for such a small segment of a single quest.

She does attack like a companion, though I see no new UI elements pertaining to her.


Regardless, there is a fleshed out companions mod so I can believe there's foundation for it.

And right, I forgot she also assists you like a companion for most of the quest
Feels like cut content

Nah. Every Witcher game has temporary companions.

[NotAI]

Witcher 1 was the main RPG in the series. Witcher 2 and Witcher 3 are fun, but they are really choose-your-own-adventure games. Well realized and fun choose-your-own-adventure games. In contrast, each of Divinity OS1, Divinity OS2, Baldur's Gate 3, is an RPG.

In a choose-your-own-adventure, like in a visual novel, the player is really watching another character make choices. He is not quite making choices himself as if he was that character, so not role-playing.

Most outcomes and their consequences are artificially and inexplicably excluded. They would have been available, had the player been allowed (RPG), during key events, to choose from actions generally available in the game, whereby stats and actions chosen would lead to outcomes according to game's rules and setting. These outcomes, whatever they would be, would lead to consequences the player then owns. However, instead, the player is allowed only to select from or precommit to one of an artificially and inexplicably few outcomes, when choices have any consequences at all (CYOA), because all choosing is by selecting from menus during key events, not by acting.

[Fitz]

Keira Metz one, where you protect her. It's a very brief period, it would be awkward to create UI elements and connect them up for such a small segment of a single quest.

She does attack like a companion, though I see no new UI elements pertaining to her.


Regardless, there is a fleshed out companions mod so I can believe there's foundation for it.

And right, I forgot she also assists you like a companion for most of the quest
Feels like cut content

That's a stretch. They could have just been trying to improve on the idea from W2 where you have Philippa guiding you through that ghost battlefield while she is transformed as an owl. She can get trapped by Wraiths in that quest but can't die or lose hp.

My guess was this quest was finished early in development and they opted to keep the additional hp bar, regardless that they don't use it in any other quest.

[Nessa]

Witcher 3 didn't have the best character from W2. So it's crap.

My main issue with declaring it a full RPG: we have to play as Geralt. We do have a lot of choices in most of the quests. So that's good but not being able to do your own character in my mind really limits the appeal and being able to call it a full RPG.

The game shines in the sidequests and the 2 DLCs for me. That main plot was asinine almost to the point of Skyrim (almost, not quite, Skyrim is still worse). The entire thing could have been solved with a short conversation with the plate armor elf in the beginning instead of just smashing him to death.


Oddly enough I'd have been more open to playing as Ciri. At least... until the new Ciri came along. NEVERMIND.

[HughMungos]

Do you have various abilities, can level up, upgrade stuff, make different builds etc? Yes. Do you make choices that affect things? Yes. Do you assume the role of another person? Yes.

Having a pre-established MC doesn't make the game any less of an RPG. In fact, I think that's what makes for a much better RPG experience. In the end of the day, my RP will always be reduced to the the small set of (******) choices and (cringy) dialogues picked for me by the devs, so at least I gotta play while actually having my character be addressed by his name.

[Oyster Sauce]

Just did a quest where you're given a sheep and need to awkwardly herd it by running behind it to get it into position at a monster nest as per the villager's instructions. Decided to try axii (mind control spell) on it, and it started following me directly. The Witcher 3 is an RPG confirmed.

[Oyster Sauce]

Thread moved to General Video Games because I have an objective to leave a hedge maze and there's a breadcrumb trail on the minimap showing me the exact way out

[Tinky Winky]

I voted no
reason: I've never played it and never will, but it's cool to **** on twitcher 3, plus my friend considers the game tedious so it must sucks and therefore not an RPG.

[Old One]

To be a cRPG, a game must try to replicate tabletop RPGs. Temple of Elemental Evil is a cRPG. Arcanum is a cRPG. Fallout is a cRPG.

Gothic, is an adventure game with RPG elements, as are the Witcher games, Elex, Morrowind, and Tainted Grail: Fall of Avalon. There's nothing inherently wrong with that.

[Oyster Sauce]

[Nessa]

...

That's how a real man fixes a sunk boat.

[Godjjjita]

The witcher 3 is a great adventure game but if playing the role of a character is what defines rpg than super mario is an rpg. You play the role of an Italian plumber in a fantasy land that need to save his (by nintendo's own words) best friend, princess peach.
To me an rpg is about freedom of choice, consequences, character build and maybe a few more details. TW3 has limited choices that are contained within the narrow spectrum of choices plausible for geralt, The consequences are there so, on that point the game mimics an rpg and the character build is varied enough.
Not being able to create your own character, be evil or murder anyone makes it at best an rpg-lite game like skyrim.

[Oyster Sauce]

masterful gear diversity

[Oyster Sauce]

[rusty_shackleford]

masterful gear diversity

this reminded me,
iirc I used mods to scale static equipment or something because all the ULTRA RARE WITCHER ARMOR was complete trash compared to level scaled loot that dropped

[Barntar who Plows]

An mediocre action-adventure game with barebones RPG mechanics and a technically "branching" story (has multiple ending to quests that more than likely mean nothing for the ending so it totally counts!) does not an RPG make! I believe it is worth separating these types of games from classic RPGs by calling them "modern" RPGs. Makes it easier to prevent flame wars on whether x game is an RPG.

[Oyster Sauce]

Ciri is ******* awful