Baldur's Gate 3

[Xenich]

Well it also makes sense for black players who want to play as a black character lol. Also it makes sense that black people exist in the world too.

Depends on lore, world, era, setting, location, etc...

This is the issue with today's politics, the need to give a "black" option for a character that would not exist under those circumstances. Adding the option is more of an external attending. It would be like creating the option to choose dwarf in a setting where there were no dwarfs simply because the individual playing the game likes dwarfs (or identifies as one) and so this character is then added out of place and with no means to remedy their existence within the games world simply because the player wants it. Just using "They exist" is not a logical argument to the need to allow for them within the setting.

Black people exist in the real world, dwarves do not. But I think black characters would exist in Faerun which is a no brainer, there are different races anyway. Not everyone needs to be white in a setting where there are a lot of people.

That argument makes no sense.

Note I never argued their existence, I argued the relevancy to their existence within the various settings. It makes no sense for a black to exist in certain areas and periods of world history. Take for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the creator rightfully had no blacks within the setting as it had no logical means to place them there as they did not exist in that area of the world at that time. So adding a black character to it would have broken every aspect of the setting and create issues that were not present, nor able to deal with by adding such a race to that environment.

The fact that "black people exist" is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the discussion and point being made. Developers who purposefully violate the culture and design of a given setting just to put in the token black/gay/POC/Sex option is on its face, racist/sexist and derisive and it wasn't too long ago where races/sexes were screaming at the top of their lungs about such things claiming it racial appropriation if a white was doing it, yet completely trashing an entire concept of setting and lore that is white/men dominated is "diverse" and "inclusive" these days and acceptable.

It is code speak for racism against whites/men and it has gotten to the point where all forms of logic are thrown out the window to conform to emotional reasoning that has no bearing on reality and serves only to appeal to political and societal narratives.

edit:

Just for perspective, I think it is silly to put a white person in a game that has a predominate culture and society that did not have them there. For instance, some Asian lore games that all of a sudden have a white protagonist as a part of the culture. Doesn't make sense and it is more outside culture pandering than that of the games world.

[Acrux]

Faerun has Valygar. How many other black humans does it need?

[ArcaneLurker]

Faerun has Valygar. How many other black humans does it need?

Personally, the business reasons for appealing to as many people as possible are flawed.
Most niggers won't really enjoy something unless it depicts White people only as villains or something to be destroyed.
I certainly don't enjoy seeing them inserted everywhere out of desperation and pity.
Even if it was more than an insignificant profit, I would choose my target audience based on my personal concerns, not on capital gain.

But of course modern ESG shit goes beyond this level of "diversity" and into the territory of Marxist bullshit, like avoiding 'whiteness' and "cultural appropriation" apart from everything they're actively appropriating from Europeans and handing over to 60IQ hostile foreigners. Such things can only be explained when you look into the repeating patterns of history and the connections between key figures.

[Kowe]

BG3 is part of the fantasy genre, but as games are also an art-form, what message does its content convey ?
The setting and world-building as well as some other components like the inclusion of Elves and Dwarves originate from distinguished European cultures, civilizations and mythologies. Someone, if necessary, feel free to correct me, but it should be of Germanic/Norse origin.
This can easily go into the territory of a collective nature of a subset of humans and its expressions, but that is another topic. I.e. Black people, with their often contrary values, is therefore out of place or worse.
So it doesn't make sense to include foreign elements into it, except for the vile purpose of making it a melting pot reflecting the modern state of things and normalizing it for those exposed to it. Think Hypernormalisation.
It also reflects the current state of affairs in the USA or by extension the Western world and how developers overseas are influenced by the circumstances. With the usual suspects. DEI is basically an inversion of what it should stand for. It converges things to an erroneous abomination. Hence no true diversity. Games which showcase different cultures and what comes with them is fine, just not on the cost of others. There have been good ones in the past, especially from Japanese developers.

[AliciaDurge]

Yeah, but it could be due to immigration/adventurers from different places too? Also, BG3 isn't placed in Western Europe.

Of course it's not in Western Europe. That's why I said facsimile, which is what it is. In the same way LotR is not technically in Western Europe, but it is tantamount to it, as a setting.

Imagine if I created an area called Ognoc, and it's a large region in the middle of a continent South of the Equator, savannah and jungles, mountains and rivers, the whole 9 yards, it's sub-tropical and warm, the native creatures are Gorillas, Elephants, Hyenas and other things like that - then I filled it with clearly white Northern-Europeans, blonde hair, blue eyes, and very pale skin. Would that make sense? Of course it wouldn't because it has absolutely no verisimilitude - it's unimmersive. Making for very, very poor world building.

Also, as for Halsin, he actively tries to go behind your back on several occassions, and because he is the writers mary-sue self-insert, the characters go along with him, completely opposed to their story-arc, and even the things they previously said. It's a prime example of a non sequitor. There is zero link in the game that would result in those events, or dialogues triggering that would make sense in the scenarios which it can show in.

If your character was an out-and-out whore, then it would be believable, but you cannot avoid them, even if you go full puritanical.

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

[AliciaDurge]

Depends on lore, world, era, setting, location, etc...

This is the issue with today's politics, the need to give a "black" option for a character that would not exist under those circumstances. Adding the option is more of an external attending. It would be like creating the option to choose dwarf in a setting where there were no dwarfs simply because the individual playing the game likes dwarfs (or identifies as one) and so this character is then added out of place and with no means to remedy their existence within the games world simply because the player wants it. Just using "They exist" is not a logical argument to the need to allow for them within the setting.

Black people exist in the real world, dwarves do not. But I think black characters would exist in Faerun which is a no brainer, there are different races anyway. Not everyone needs to be white in a setting where there are a lot of people.

That argument makes no sense.

Note I never argued their existence, I argued the relevancy to their existence within the various settings. It makes no sense for a black to exist in certain areas and periods of world history. Take for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the creator rightfully had no blacks within the setting as it had no logical means to place them there as they did not exist in that area of the world at that time. So adding a black character to it would have broken every aspect of the setting and create issues that were not present, nor able to deal with by adding such a race to that environment.

The fact that "black people exist" is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the discussion and point being made. Developers who purposefully violate the culture and design of a given setting just to put in the token black/gay/POC/Sex option is on its face, racist/sexist and derisive and it wasn't too long ago where races/sexes were screaming at the top of their lungs about such things claiming it racial appropriation if a white was doing it, yet completely trashing an entire concept of setting and lore that is white/men dominated is "diverse" and "inclusive" these days and acceptable.

It is code speak for racism against whites/men and it has gotten to the point where all forms of logic are thrown out the window to conform to emotional reasoning that has no bearing on reality and serves only to appeal to political and societal narratives.

edit:

Just for perspective, I think it is silly to put a white person in a game that has a predominate culture and society that did not have them there. For instance, some Asian lore games that all of a sudden have a white protagonist as a part of the culture. Doesn't make sense and it is more outside culture pandering than that of the games world.

Okay, makes sense now. Sorry, I misunderstood first. But I think it's fine to black people exist in Faerun, it doesn't bother me. But that's my personal opinion. I look over stuff like gender, sexuality and skin color. Those things don't bother me at all, for me the most important thing is personality. In stories, it's the same. Characters with no personalities and clearly are token diversity checklists ain't it. You gotta make it count. I write as a hobby, and I have many queer/PoC characters, but all those characters make sense to the story and the setting (for example, a story takes place in a modern country where immigrants are a common thing). I hate Mary sues/Gary sues with a personality of a road kill and is just made for the writer's wokeness angle to get more money etc.

[AliciaDurge]

Faerun has Valygar. How many other black humans does it need?

Maybe like, his family? Black people just don't show up from nothing lol, and they usually come from black/PoC families.

[AliciaDurge]

BG3 is part of the fantasy genre, but as games are also an art-form, what message does its content convey ?
The setting and world-building as well as some other components like the inclusion of Elves and Dwarves originate from distinguished European cultures, civilizations and mythologies. Someone, if necessary, feel free to correct me, but it should be of Germanic/Norse origin.
This can easily go into the territory of a collective nature of a subset of humans and its expressions, but that is another topic. I.e. Black people, with their often contrary values, is therefore out of place or worse.
So it doesn't make sense to include foreign elements into it, except for the vile purpose of making it a melting pot reflecting the modern state of things and normalizing it for those exposed to it. Think Hypernormalisation.
It also reflects the current state of affairs in the USA or by extension the Western world and how developers overseas are influenced by the circumstances. With the usual suspects. DEI is basically an inversion of what it should stand for. It converges things to an erroneous abomination. Hence no true diversity. Games which showcase different cultures and what comes with them is fine, just not on the cost of others. There have been good ones in the past, especially from Japanese developers.

Yeah I agree that diversity of character is great, but diversity just because is not. I think my views come from the fact I've lived in a very diverse country my whole life and I'm used to it, therefore a rich diversity in media doesn't bother me. Humans put their subjective experiences on things a lot. But what bothers me is the fake type of diversity like "look, this XYZ media has a gay character!! Buy it!". Tho, LGBTQ media is a different thing since it's clearly targeted to the queer demographic (like the MC is a queer character who finds the courage to come out of the closet for example, and not just a MC who happens to be queer).

[TKVNC]

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

In regards to playing as a nigger, I don't mind if it's -possible- as I would never do it - but when it's possible at the expense of white, or European features, it becomes offensive. If the game had sliders, I wouldn't give a single shit, because I could customise faces to be the polar opposite of a nigger.

As for Halsin, all the characters in game are willing to ignore being monogamous to fuck Halsin, and they openly say they've had dreams of fucking him - even if they're in a monogamous relationship already. That alone makes no sense - but then no matter what you do, he will continue to try and cuck you, while the other characters go along with him, in front of you, on several occasions. It's also apparently true, though I can't verify as I've never gotten this, probably because I find it cringe, that if you go to a brothel, he forces himself in, and if you refuse him you lose massive reputation with other characters, and he carries on anyway - with the scene following showing your character as a voyeur and cuck while he fucks everyone as a bear and you watch.

I can't verify it's all entirely like that, since I haven't seen all of it in game, but I have seen significant people online commenting on it, I found out by accident after I tried to google what the fuck was going on with him being a faggot sex pest to my character nearly 24/7.

[AliciaDurge]

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

In regards to playing as a nigger, I don't mind if it's -possible- as I would never do it - but when it's possible at the expense of white, or European features, it becomes offensive. If the game had sliders, I wouldn't give a single shit, because I could customise faces to be the polar opposite of a nigger.

As for Halsin, all the characters in game are willing to ignore being monogamous to fuck Halsin, and they openly say they've had dreams of fucking him - even if they're in a monogamous relationship already. That alone makes no sense - but then no matter what you do, he will continue to try and cuck you, while the other characters go along with him, in front of you, on several occasions. It's also apparently true, though I can't verify as I've never gotten this, probably because I find it cringe, that if you go to a brothel, he forces himself in, and if you refuse him you lose massive reputation with other characters, and he carries on anyway - with the scene following showing your character as a voyeur and cuck while he fucks everyone as a bear and you watch.

I can't verify it's all entirely like that, since I haven't seen all of it in game, but I have seen significant people online commenting on it, I found out by accident after I tried to google what the fuck was going on with him being a faggot sex pest to my character nearly 24/7.

I suspect it's partly because of the bugs, but yikes. They should fix his character if he truly behaves that way. I'm all for people choosing their relationship styles, you do you Idc. But it should always be consensual and not forced. In my playthourgh, Halsin was a reasonable dude and lifting the shadow curse was a great side quest, I'll forever have Thaniel in my heart as a fav, wholesome character. But if he behaves that way in my other playthroughs, I'll yeet the guy through the roof if I don't need him.

Yeah, I think people should have the freedom to customize their custom character how they want to, but not on the expense of other's races features.

[AliciaDurge]

Black people exist in the real world, dwarves do not. But I think black characters would exist in Faerun which is a no brainer, there are different races anyway. Not everyone needs to be white in a setting where there are a lot of people.

That argument makes no sense.

Note I never argued their existence, I argued the relevancy to their existence within the various settings. It makes no sense for a black to exist in certain areas and periods of world history. Take for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the creator rightfully had no blacks within the setting as it had no logical means to place them there as they did not exist in that area of the world at that time. So adding a black character to it would have broken every aspect of the setting and create issues that were not present, nor able to deal with by adding such a race to that environment.

The fact that "black people exist" is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the discussion and point being made. Developers who purposefully violate the culture and design of a given setting just to put in the token black/gay/POC/Sex option is on its face, racist/sexist and derisive and it wasn't too long ago where races/sexes were screaming at the top of their lungs about such things claiming it racial appropriation if a white was doing it, yet completely trashing an entire concept of setting and lore that is white/men dominated is "diverse" and "inclusive" these days and acceptable.

It is code speak for racism against whites/men and it has gotten to the point where all forms of logic are thrown out the window to conform to emotional reasoning that has no bearing on reality and serves only to appeal to political and societal narratives.

edit:

Just for perspective, I think it is silly to put a white person in a game that has a predominate culture and society that did not have them there. For instance, some Asian lore games that all of a sudden have a white protagonist as a part of the culture. Doesn't make sense and it is more outside culture pandering than that of the games world.

Okay, makes sense now. Sorry, I misunderstood first. But I think it's fine to black people exist in Faerun, it doesn't bother me. But that's my personal opinion. I look over stuff like gender, sexuality and skin color. Those things don't bother me at all, for me the most important thing is personality. In stories, it's the same. Characters with no personalities and clearly are token diversity checklists ain't it. You gotta make it count. I write as a hobby, and I have many queer/PoC characters, but all those characters make sense to the story and the setting (for example, a story takes place in a modern country where immigrants are a common thing). I hate Mary sues/Gary sues with a personality of a road kill and is just made for the writer's wokeness angle to get more money etc.

I wanted to point out tho, there are different media for different demographics. Everyone should make the art they want to, I'm all for freedom of speech (the only expection is loli). Different media is good for different democraphics. Some people ike woke media, some people like more conservative, male dominant media. And that's totally okay. Of course, criticizing is good. But I don't get it when people read/watch stuff that they know they won't like, and then start to complain about it. Like, I get it, you don't like horror, that's cool. But if they go to read a horror book just to complain about it, I don't see the point cuz there are so many other types of books that person will like. Like why they don't go to read them? They still have the right to say their opinion, but my immediate thought is like "Bro I'll give you books you'll like so you don't torture yourself and others". /JK

[Xenich]

Black people exist in the real world, dwarves do not. But I think black characters would exist in Faerun which is a no brainer, there are different races anyway. Not everyone needs to be white in a setting where there are a lot of people.

That argument makes no sense.

Note I never argued their existence, I argued the relevancy to their existence within the various settings. It makes no sense for a black to exist in certain areas and periods of world history. Take for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the creator rightfully had no blacks within the setting as it had no logical means to place them there as they did not exist in that area of the world at that time. So adding a black character to it would have broken every aspect of the setting and create issues that were not present, nor able to deal with by adding such a race to that environment.

The fact that "black people exist" is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the discussion and point being made. Developers who purposefully violate the culture and design of a given setting just to put in the token black/gay/POC/Sex option is on its face, racist/sexist and derisive and it wasn't too long ago where races/sexes were screaming at the top of their lungs about such things claiming it racial appropriation if a white was doing it, yet completely trashing an entire concept of setting and lore that is white/men dominated is "diverse" and "inclusive" these days and acceptable.

It is code speak for racism against whites/men and it has gotten to the point where all forms of logic are thrown out the window to conform to emotional reasoning that has no bearing on reality and serves only to appeal to political and societal narratives.

edit:

Just for perspective, I think it is silly to put a white person in a game that has a predominate culture and society that did not have them there. For instance, some Asian lore games that all of a sudden have a white protagonist as a part of the culture. Doesn't make sense and it is more outside culture pandering than that of the games world.

Okay, makes sense now. Sorry, I misunderstood first. But I think it's fine to black people exist in Faerun, it doesn't bother me. But that's my personal opinion. I look over stuff like gender, sexuality and skin color. Those things don't bother me at all, for me the most important thing is personality. In stories, it's the same. Characters with no personalities and clearly are token diversity checklists ain't it. You gotta make it count. I write as a hobby, and I have many queer/PoC characters, but all those characters make sense to the story and the setting (for example, a story takes place in a modern country where immigrants are a common thing). I hate Mary sues/Gary sues with a personality of a road kill and is just made for the writer's wokeness angle to get more money etc.

These things are integral though to the stories believability though. For instance, seeing a black man sitting in an Irish pub in early Irish settings is stupid on its face. You may not care about the color, but it would be as silly as walking into a medieval setting that tries to be accurate to its era and finding a laser sight and night vision goggles sitting on the counter. You may not care about the out of place nature of the issue, but for anyone interested in the history and setting would be insulted by the display as it is stupid on its face.

That is the level of insult to which much of this is being done. While Faerun humans are a range of colors and more of a mix of races, there are still distinct occurrences by various tribes. So seeing a very dark Unther within the area of Lantanese as if they were Lantanese and always a part of that culture would be not that common (though the mixing of humans themselves is not my direct objection in this realm). That said, among the other races such halflings, elves and dwarfs, this does not exist with human influence. In BG3, you consistently see this racialized diversity among elves, halflings, and dwarfs as if they took on human features in such (ie notable black, asian, etc... were modeled into their features which was obvious DEI pandering) and it makes those specific races look, modern and narrative pandering. It breaks immersion and tells the player that "diversity" and "inclusion" should not only rewrite history in reality driven games, but force conformity in the fantasy as well.

This also is covered in gays occurring within the world. While they existed, they were confined to various sub cultures due to it not being generally accepted (as Ed Greenwood noted he was emulating the world in this respect at the time showing that even in this fantasy world, such occurrence was limited to areas where it may be accepted and its occurrence was guarded among those groups due to the publics general attitude to it).

You may not think it important, but for many who enjoy these types of games (and to which these games were originally made for), this is as important as any ruleset concerning combat, race and class restrictions.

I hope you understand that to see this level of pandering (ie generalizing of race mixing and open homosexuality as if it were modern day society) and manipulation is very insulting to many? It would be like scoffing at people complaining about you moving a Knight like it were a Queen on a chess board and claiming that you never really paid attention to those rules, you enjoy the game for other reasons. This is the level of dismissal the industry is doing when they disregard such in their "need" to diversify and be inclusive. It is political and it is obvious.

[TKVNC]

I suspect it's partly because of the bugs, but yikes. They should fix his character if he truly behaves that way. I'm all for people choosing their relationship styles, you do you Idc. But it should always be consensual and not forced. In my playthourgh, Halsin was a reasonable dude and lifting the shadow curse was a great side quest, I'll forever have Thaniel in my heart as a fav, wholesome character. But if he behaves that way in my other playthroughs, I'll yeet the guy through the roof if I don't need him.

Yeah, I think people should have the freedom to customize their custom character how they want to, but not on the expense of other's races features.

Surprisingly nuanced take. Well done.

As for bugs, apparently it's not a bug, and it just happens, though, as I say, I haven't tested it fully, so I cannot say for certainty.

[AliciaDurge]

That argument makes no sense.

Note I never argued their existence, I argued the relevancy to their existence within the various settings. It makes no sense for a black to exist in certain areas and periods of world history. Take for instance, Kingdom Come: Deliverance, the creator rightfully had no blacks within the setting as it had no logical means to place them there as they did not exist in that area of the world at that time. So adding a black character to it would have broken every aspect of the setting and create issues that were not present, nor able to deal with by adding such a race to that environment.

The fact that "black people exist" is irrelevant as it has no bearing on the discussion and point being made. Developers who purposefully violate the culture and design of a given setting just to put in the token black/gay/POC/Sex option is on its face, racist/sexist and derisive and it wasn't too long ago where races/sexes were screaming at the top of their lungs about such things claiming it racial appropriation if a white was doing it, yet completely trashing an entire concept of setting and lore that is white/men dominated is "diverse" and "inclusive" these days and acceptable.

It is code speak for racism against whites/men and it has gotten to the point where all forms of logic are thrown out the window to conform to emotional reasoning that has no bearing on reality and serves only to appeal to political and societal narratives.

edit:

Just for perspective, I think it is silly to put a white person in a game that has a predominate culture and society that did not have them there. For instance, some Asian lore games that all of a sudden have a white protagonist as a part of the culture. Doesn't make sense and it is more outside culture pandering than that of the games world.

Okay, makes sense now. Sorry, I misunderstood first. But I think it's fine to black people exist in Faerun, it doesn't bother me. But that's my personal opinion. I look over stuff like gender, sexuality and skin color. Those things don't bother me at all, for me the most important thing is personality. In stories, it's the same. Characters with no personalities and clearly are token diversity checklists ain't it. You gotta make it count. I write as a hobby, and I have many queer/PoC characters, but all those characters make sense to the story and the setting (for example, a story takes place in a modern country where immigrants are a common thing). I hate Mary sues/Gary sues with a personality of a road kill and is just made for the writer's wokeness angle to get more money etc.

These things are integral though to the stories believability though. For instance, seeing a black man sitting in an Irish pub in early Irish settings is stupid on its face. You may not care about the color, but it would be as silly as walking into a medieval setting that tries to be accurate to its era and finding a laser sight and night vision goggles sitting on the counter. You may not care about the out of place nature of the issue, but for anyone interested in the history and setting would be insulted by the display as it is stupid on its face.

That is the level of insult to which much of this is being done. While Faerun humans are a range of colors and more of a mix of races, there are still distinct occurrences by various tribes. So seeing a very dark Unther within the area of Lantanese as if they were Lantanese and always a part of that culture would be not that common (though the mixing of humans themselves is not my direct objection in this realm). That said, among the other races such halflings, elves and dwarfs, this does not exist with human influence. In BG3, you consistently see this racialized diversity among elves, halflings, and dwarfs as if they took on human features in such (ie notable black, asian, etc... were modeled into their features which was obvious DEI pandering) and it makes those specific races look, modern and narrative pandering. It breaks immersion and tells the player that "diversity" and "inclusion" should not only rewrite history in reality driven games, but force conformity in the fantasy as well.

This also is covered in gays occurring within the world. While they existed, they were confined to various sub cultures due to it not being generally accepted (as Ed Greenwood noted he was emulating the world in this respect at the time showing that even in this fantasy world, such occurrence was limited to areas where it may be accepted and its occurrence was guarded among those groups due to the publics general attitude to it).

You may not think it important, but for many who enjoy these types of games (and to which these games were originally made for), this is as important as any ruleset concerning combat, race and class restrictions.

I hope you understand that to see this level of pandering (ie generalizing of race mixing and open homosexuality as if it were modern day society) and manipulation is very insulting to many? It would be like scoffing at people complaining about you moving a Knight like it were a Queen on a chess board and claiming that you never really paid attention to those rules, you enjoy the game for other reasons. This is the level of dismissal the industry is doing when they disregard such in their "need" to diversify and be inclusive. It is political and it is obvious.

Great point. I'll answer more in depth later, but in one of my story ideas the MC is a queer and it takes place in medieval Europe, but a fantasy world which it is related to the story is made up, so as the creator I can make up the rules and social norms of that world. But in the real world of the story, queerness is not accepted and she has to keep it to herself. Only her adoptive father knows and is cool with it, but he's the only person she trusts in the start of the story. I like to balance realism and made up stuff in my stories, and it may not be 100% realistic all the time but it has to make sense. Like even if I make stuff up, there still has to be some kind of logic, balance and believable reasons behind it. Not every peace of media needs to be to the status quo, and I think that's important for creative people. (To clarify, I meant the fantasy world is outside of Earth in that story). I want creative people to be able to do what they want with their creations, and it's okay that some of them don't want to do the status quo kind of thing. It would be boring if every story had the same status quo stuff. People's ideas are unique in their own ways, which should be allowed.

[AliciaDurge]

I suspect it's partly because of the bugs, but yikes. They should fix his character if he truly behaves that way. I'm all for people choosing their relationship styles, you do you Idc. But it should always be consensual and not forced. In my playthourgh, Halsin was a reasonable dude and lifting the shadow curse was a great side quest, I'll forever have Thaniel in my heart as a fav, wholesome character. But if he behaves that way in my other playthroughs, I'll yeet the guy through the roof if I don't need him.

Yeah, I think people should have the freedom to customize their custom character how they want to, but not on the expense of other's races features.

Surprisingly nuanced take. Well done.

As for bugs, apparently it's not a bug, and it just happens, though, as I say, I haven't tested it fully, so I cannot say for certainty.

Tell me when you have tested. For me, Halsin was pretty normal in my playthrough.

[Acrux]

Faerun has Valygar. How many other black humans does it need?

Maybe like, his family? Black people just don't show up from nothing lol, and they usually come from black/PoC families.

No they don't they spring up fully formed out of the ground like maggots.

[jebacdrkac]

Bruh my paladin just broke his oath because this fat prick mushroom died in combat against duergars , larian still hasnt fixed this bug lol...

[Scruffins]

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

In regards to playing as a nigger, I don't mind if it's -possible- as I would never do it - but when it's possible at the expense of white, or European features, it becomes offensive. If the game had sliders, I wouldn't give a single shit, because I could customise faces to be the polar opposite of a nigger.

As for Halsin, all the characters in game are willing to ignore being monogamous to fuck Halsin, and they openly say they've had dreams of fucking him - even if they're in a monogamous relationship already. That alone makes no sense - but then no matter what you do, he will continue to try and cuck you, while the other characters go along with him, in front of you, on several occasions. It's also apparently true, though I can't verify as I've never gotten this, probably because I find it cringe, that if you go to a brothel, he forces himself in, and if you refuse him you lose massive reputation with other characters, and he carries on anyway - with the scene following showing your character as a voyeur and cuck while he fucks everyone as a bear and you watch.

I can't verify it's all entirely like that, since I haven't seen all of it in game, but I have seen significant people online commenting on it, I found out by accident after I tried to google what the fuck was going on with him being a faggot sex pest to my character nearly 24/7.

The Halsin sex scene at the brothel is probably one of, if not THE MOST insurmountable acts of degeneracy I've ever seen in a game.

For those who don't know, you can invite Halsin to have a foursome with the two incestuous brother and sister Drow twins, and he turns into a bear and starts hammering the girl drow, while her brother holds her. The girl drow even says vile shit like "oh my how does it even fit???" And Halsin responds with something like, "it doesn't, but luckily I'm a great healer."

I am not fucking joking, this shit is actually in the game.

So yeah, straight up bestiality-incest. Very progressive, Larian. But seriously, whoever wrote Halsin must have some SERIOUSLY disturbing fantasies.

[Xenich]

Okay, makes sense now. Sorry, I misunderstood first. But I think it's fine to black people exist in Faerun, it doesn't bother me. But that's my personal opinion. I look over stuff like gender, sexuality and skin color. Those things don't bother me at all, for me the most important thing is personality. In stories, it's the same. Characters with no personalities and clearly are token diversity checklists ain't it. You gotta make it count. I write as a hobby, and I have many queer/PoC characters, but all those characters make sense to the story and the setting (for example, a story takes place in a modern country where immigrants are a common thing). I hate Mary sues/Gary sues with a personality of a road kill and is just made for the writer's wokeness angle to get more money etc.

These things are integral though to the stories believability though. For instance, seeing a black man sitting in an Irish pub in early Irish settings is stupid on its face. You may not care about the color, but it would be as silly as walking into a medieval setting that tries to be accurate to its era and finding a laser sight and night vision goggles sitting on the counter. You may not care about the out of place nature of the issue, but for anyone interested in the history and setting would be insulted by the display as it is stupid on its face.

That is the level of insult to which much of this is being done. While Faerun humans are a range of colors and more of a mix of races, there are still distinct occurrences by various tribes. So seeing a very dark Unther within the area of Lantanese as if they were Lantanese and always a part of that culture would be not that common (though the mixing of humans themselves is not my direct objection in this realm). That said, among the other races such halflings, elves and dwarfs, this does not exist with human influence. In BG3, you consistently see this racialized diversity among elves, halflings, and dwarfs as if they took on human features in such (ie notable black, asian, etc... were modeled into their features which was obvious DEI pandering) and it makes those specific races look, modern and narrative pandering. It breaks immersion and tells the player that "diversity" and "inclusion" should not only rewrite history in reality driven games, but force conformity in the fantasy as well.

This also is covered in gays occurring within the world. While they existed, they were confined to various sub cultures due to it not being generally accepted (as Ed Greenwood noted he was emulating the world in this respect at the time showing that even in this fantasy world, such occurrence was limited to areas where it may be accepted and its occurrence was guarded among those groups due to the publics general attitude to it).

You may not think it important, but for many who enjoy these types of games (and to which these games were originally made for), this is as important as any ruleset concerning combat, race and class restrictions.

I hope you understand that to see this level of pandering (ie generalizing of race mixing and open homosexuality as if it were modern day society) and manipulation is very insulting to many? It would be like scoffing at people complaining about you moving a Knight like it were a Queen on a chess board and claiming that you never really paid attention to those rules, you enjoy the game for other reasons. This is the level of dismissal the industry is doing when they disregard such in their "need" to diversify and be inclusive. It is political and it is obvious.

Great point. I'll answer more in depth later, but in one of my story ideas the MC is a queer and it takes place in medieval Europe, but a fantasy world which it is related to the story is made up, so as the creator I can make up the rules and social norms of that world. But in the real world of the story, queerness is not accepted and she has to keep it to herself. Only her adoptive father knows and is cool with it, but he's the only person she trusts in the start of the story. I like to balance realism and made up stuff in my stories, and it may not be 100% realistic all the time but it has to make sense. Like even if I make stuff up, there still has to be some kind of logic, balance and believable reasons behind it. Not every peace of media needs to be to the status quo, and I think that's important for creative people. (To clarify, I meant the fantasy world is outside of Earth in that story). I want creative people to be able to do what they want with their creations, and it's okay that some of them don't want to do the status quo kind of thing. It would be boring if every story had the same status quo stuff. People's ideas are unique in their own ways, which should be allowed.

Then they can create their own world, setting, lore and structure. Ripping off an existing world and then ignoring its structure is just lazy no talents marketing on the existing IPs success to push their garbage because they know nobody wants to read/play/watch their political garbage so they have to hide it behind something people have an interest in.

If this were just an issue of creators making their own original content, but with whatever world view they had, nobody would care because it would stand on its own, and people could choose it or not. Instead we get a bunch of existing IPs being raped by political deviants trying to message the world a story only a very small sub group is interested in.

It is like the comic book industry. There were a few comics that came out which were new characters, but gay, or black, etc... and they pushed all the usual political tripe. They flopped, nobody wanted to read them, so... naturally, they started ripping off the existing successful comics and turning them gay and injecting them with their politics.

That should tell you the motive behind all of this.

[TKVNC]

So yeah, straight up bestiality-incest, very progressive, Larian. But seriously, whoever wrote Halsin must have some SERIOUSLY disturbing fantasies.

Truly the work of a demented mind.

[Oyster Sauce]

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

In regards to playing as a nigger, I don't mind if it's -possible- as I would never do it - but when it's possible at the expense of white, or European features, it becomes offensive. If the game had sliders, I wouldn't give a single shit, because I could customise faces to be the polar opposite of a nigger.

As for Halsin, all the characters in game are willing to ignore being monogamous to fuck Halsin, and they openly say they've had dreams of fucking him - even if they're in a monogamous relationship already. That alone makes no sense - but then no matter what you do, he will continue to try and cuck you, while the other characters go along with him, in front of you, on several occasions. It's also apparently true, though I can't verify as I've never gotten this, probably because I find it cringe, that if you go to a brothel, he forces himself in, and if you refuse him you lose massive reputation with other characters, and he carries on anyway - with the scene following showing your character as a voyeur and cuck while he fucks everyone as a bear and you watch.

I can't verify it's all entirely like that, since I haven't seen all of it in game, but I have seen significant people online commenting on it, I found out by accident after I tried to google what the fuck was going on with him being a faggot sex pest to my character nearly 24/7.

Nuh uh, only Shadowheart openly lusts for Halsin.

[TKVNC]

Nuh uh, only Shadowheart openly lusts for Halsin.

Could be, could be. But Shadowheart was the one written by the same writer, I believe.

Interesting that he writes a fanfic of his self-insert into the game, in order to unceremoniously cuck the player.

[Xenich]

I bet owlcat are already rubbing their palms hoping to get their hands on BG4 license. You thought wotr was woke? You ain't seen nothing yet!

Hmm yeah, at least in BG3 you can play as fully straight character and head canon your companions as straights as well, I think.

No, they are all gay characters.

If you can romance them to gay, they are gay. They are not "player sexual", they are gay characters who will have relationships with the opposite sex. This is why you can stumble into gay dialogues because they are designed to allow for gay focus. The game with a straight character is to not fall into a dialogue trap where the character assumes you are gay as well.

Contrast this with Morrigan and Alistair in Dragon Age who were "straight" and could not be romanced to be gay.

[OnTilt]

I bet owlcat are already rubbing their palms hoping to get their hands on BG4 license. You thought wotr was woke? You ain't seen nothing yet!

Hmm yeah, at least in BG3 you can play as fully straight character and head canon your companions as straights as well, I think.

No, they are all gay characters.

If you can romance them to gay, they are gay. They are not "player sexual", they are gay characters who will have relationships with the opposite sex. This is why you can stumble into gay dialogues because they are designed to allow for gay focus. The game with a straight character is to not fall into a dialogue trap where the character assumes you are gay as well.

Contrast this with Morrigan and Alistair in Dragon Age who were "straight" and could not be romanced to be gay.

If Larian wanted to have all this gay shit in their game I really don't understand why they couldn't have just let us choose our sexuality at character creation. Then I could be pals with Gale without him trying to get me into bed. Its like they left it this way so that you were forced to interact with it that way.

[aweigh]

wtfff

[Anon]

Hmm yeah, at least in BG3 you can play as fully straight character and head canon your companions as straights as well, I think.

No, they are all gay characters.

If you can romance them to gay, they are gay. They are not "player sexual", they are gay characters who will have relationships with the opposite sex. This is why you can stumble into gay dialogues because they are designed to allow for gay focus. The game with a straight character is to not fall into a dialogue trap where the character assumes you are gay as well.

Contrast this with Morrigan and Alistair in Dragon Age who were "straight" and could not be romanced to be gay.

If Larian wanted to have all this gay shit in their game I really don't understand why they couldn't have just let us choose our sexuality at character creation. Then I could be pals with Gale without him trying to get me into bed. Its like they left it this way so that you were forced to interact with it that way.

Because there are 900+ different sexualities nowadays so the alphabet crowd would seethe.

[Xenich]

Hmm yeah, at least in BG3 you can play as fully straight character and head canon your companions as straights as well, I think.

No, they are all gay characters.

If you can romance them to gay, they are gay. They are not "player sexual", they are gay characters who will have relationships with the opposite sex. This is why you can stumble into gay dialogues because they are designed to allow for gay focus. The game with a straight character is to not fall into a dialogue trap where the character assumes you are gay as well.

Contrast this with Morrigan and Alistair in Dragon Age who were "straight" and could not be romanced to be gay.

If Larian wanted to have all this gay shit in their game I really don't understand why they couldn't have just let us choose our sexuality at character creation. Then I could be pals with Gale without him trying to get me into bed. Its like they left it this way so that you were forced to interact with it that way.

Well, if they did that, then they couldn't force it on you could they?

I don't think for one minute all of this crap is just some honest intent to provide an experience of choice for all. It is social engineering, in your face crap.

A narcist, which goes hand in hand with homosexuals and their goal is be the center of attention. They won't be happy until you are forced to participate. This is why they are throwing tantrums about people removing it from the games.

[Anon]

Swen has amended his version and apparently it's indeed all on Larian



Can be just business talk to not burn his former business partner and risk burning bridges, but well, can't overread it and have to take his word for it. Larian is to blame for all the wokeism in the game then.

[TKVNC]

Swen has amended his version and apparently it's indeed all on Larian



Can be just business talk to not burn his former business partner and risk burning bridges, but well, can't overread it and have to take his word for it. Larian is to blame for all the wokeism in the game then.

I guess he was chasing the ESG after all.

[AliciaDurge]

Okay, good point. But I still think that black players should have a chance to play as a black character, like I have the chance to play as a white character. Can you tell about those situations with Halsin? I didn't notice it IIRC. I genuinely want to know. I like the mix of poly and monogamous characters, but consent should be the first thing in every relationship.

In regards to playing as a nigger, I don't mind if it's -possible- as I would never do it - but when it's possible at the expense of white, or European features, it becomes offensive. If the game had sliders, I wouldn't give a single shit, because I could customise faces to be the polar opposite of a nigger.

As for Halsin, all the characters in game are willing to ignore being monogamous to fuck Halsin, and they openly say they've had dreams of fucking him - even if they're in a monogamous relationship already. That alone makes no sense - but then no matter what you do, he will continue to try and cuck you, while the other characters go along with him, in front of you, on several occasions. It's also apparently true, though I can't verify as I've never gotten this, probably because I find it cringe, that if you go to a brothel, he forces himself in, and if you refuse him you lose massive reputation with other characters, and he carries on anyway - with the scene following showing your character as a voyeur and cuck while he fucks everyone as a bear and you watch.

I can't verify it's all entirely like that, since I haven't seen all of it in game, but I have seen significant people online commenting on it, I found out by accident after I tried to google what the fuck was going on with him being a faggot sex pest to my character nearly 24/7.

The Halsin sex scene at the brothel is probably one of, if not THE MOST insurmountable acts of degeneracy I've ever seen in a game.

For those who don't know, you can invite Halsin to have a foursome with the two incestuous brother and sister Drow twins, and he turns into a bear and starts hammering the girl drow, while her brother holds her. The girl drow even says vile shit like "oh my how does it even fit???" And Halsin responds with something like, "it doesn't, but luckily I'm a great healer."

I am not fucking joking, this shit is actually in the game.

So yeah, straight up bestiality-incest. Very progressive, Larian. But seriously, whoever wrote Halsin must have some SERIOUSLY disturbing fantasies.

Jesus I need to bleach my eyes after that mental image. Yuck.