Frostpunk

[Ranselknulf]

I saw this game on sale and it looks like a builder strategy game.

I'm gonna give it a try.




guess you can call it a rogue-lite city builder?

[J1M]

No, you just play it once to see everything. It's like a walking sim in that it wants you to experience a narrative more than anything else.

[Ranselknulf]

No, you just play it once to see everything. It's like a walking sim in that it wants you to experience a narrative more than anything else.

sad!

I'll save it for a rainy day when I'm bored and in between games then.

[Trithne]

It has the trappings of a strategic city management game, but playing it, you'll quickly realise that it's all smoke and mirrors. They could have used those systems properly, but instead it's all scripted and you follow a set sequence of events and choices.

[Maledict]

I'm finally giving it a proper go. I did 2 of the campaigns. The leftietard heavy handwriting is even worse than in BG3 at the end.

YOU MOOOOST SAVE EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVEN IF IT MAY DOOM THE ENTIRETY OF THE HUMANITY

YOU MOOOOST HAYYYT RELIGIOOON

Fek off. I will not buy the 2nd one, obviously.

[Norfleet]

YOU MOOOOST SAVE EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVEN IF IT MAY DOOM THE ENTIRETY OF THE HUMANITY

Some of you may die, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

YOU MOOOOST HAYYYT RELIGIOOON

So, what happens if you DEUS VULT?

[Vergil]

Frotpunk

[rusty_shackleford]

frogpunk

[Acrux]

frogpunk

[Demonic Fate]

YOU MOOOOST SAVE EVERY SINGLE PERSON EVEN IF IT MAY DOOM THE ENTIRETY OF THE HUMANITY

Some of you may die, but it is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

YOU MOOOOST HAYYYT RELIGIOOON

So, what happens if you DEUS VULT?

The threshold for both the fascist and theocratic paths is the last three laws, which iirc are the "publicly torture/execute dissenters" laws. If you pass that threshold, you still win, but the end credits will say "We crossed the line. We survived, but was it worth it?". You can still build churches and make people pray and get the good ending, as long as you don't get too violent with it.

(Also there's different law mechanics for different scenarios, in The Last Autumn none of the above applies at all.)

IMO it's a very good game. It's definitely more of a closed puzzle than a big sprawling city manager, but it has great aesthetics and it's quick.

People who say "it's a narrative game, just mindlessly follow the events" have probably only played A New Home on a medium difficulty level, where you can just automate everything and win without much real sacrifice. Play an advanced scenario on the highest difficulty, and you will need to carefully consider the value of every single worker to make it alive, which may or may not be what you enjoy but it definitely fits with the concept.

[Norfleet]

People who say "it's a narrative game, just mindlessly follow the events" have probably only played A New Home on a medium difficulty level, where you can just automate everything and win without much real sacrifice. Play an advanced scenario on the highest difficulty, and you will need to carefully consider the value of every single worker to make it alive, which may or may not be what you enjoy but it definitely fits with the concept.

See, I've heard it as "a narrative game", not because of this, but because the game is essentially a story on rails, less so a GAME. You can choose various branching points, but you can't truly ever leave the rails because the narrative dominates over the gameplay. In a GAME-based game, most sacrifices are a product of not gittin' gud. An example of this: There was some game, whose name I recall, where you overthrow an evil king and become king, only now that you are in the position, YOU are called upon to choose between the good and evil options to preserve the kingdom from the Threat, the evil option of which will give you more funds, the good option of which tends to result in you losing funds. The "story" therefore would be one where you're now the new evil king, forced into doing those same evil actions if you want to preserve the kingdom at all. But because it's NOT a story-driven game, you can do the "good" options simply by being, as a typical gamer, rich as ****, and therefore, can just eat the losses. Provided you were even the slightest bit gud at the game (so it's not really a hard game in that sense).

Frostpunk, I hear, though, is essentially on rails. It wears the skin of a ****** builder, but is ultimately just a narrative. You don't defeat the narrative through skill at the game.

[Demonic Fate]

People who say "it's a narrative game, just mindlessly follow the events" have probably only played A New Home on a medium difficulty level, where you can just automate everything and win without much real sacrifice. Play an advanced scenario on the highest difficulty, and you will need to carefully consider the value of every single worker to make it alive, which may or may not be what you enjoy but it definitely fits with the concept.

See, I've heard it as "a narrative game", not because of this, but because the game is essentially a story on rails, less so a GAME. You can choose various branching points, but you can't truly ever leave the rails because the narrative dominates over the gameplay. In a GAME-based game, most sacrifices are a product of not gittin' gud. An example of this: There was some game, whose name I recall, where you overthrow an evil king and become king, only now that you are in the position, YOU are called upon to choose between the good and evil options to preserve the kingdom from the Threat, the evil option of which will give you more funds, the good option of which tends to result in you losing funds. The "story" therefore would be one where you're now the new evil king, forced into doing those same evil actions if you want to preserve the kingdom at all. But because it's NOT a story-driven game, you can do the "good" options simply by being, as a typical gamer, rich as ****, and therefore, can just eat the losses. Provided you were even the slightest bit gud at the game (so it's not really a hard game in that sense).

Frostpunk, I hear, though, is essentially on rails. It wears the skin of a ****** builder, but is ultimately just a narrative. You don't defeat the narrative through skill at the game.

Nah. On lower difficulty levels, you can build a billion robots and make a post-apocalyptic paradise where nobody has to work or leave their warm houses. Most of the "hard choices" then go away if you can give infinite food, heat, and entertainment to the malcontents.

But it's definitely not open-ended in any way. Each scenario will throw a bunch of problems and challenges at you, you figure out how to beat them, and then there's no point playing further. This isn't, and isn't trying to be, a creative city builder where you can have fun simply designing your ideal city on your own.

[Norfleet]

But it's definitely not open-ended in any way. Each scenario will throw a bunch of problems and challenges at you, you figure out how to beat them, and then there's no point playing further. This isn't, and isn't trying to be, a creative city builder where you can have fun simply designing your ideal city on your own.

But does it force you into specific railroaded plotlines you can't really avoid, or is it more like, say, Ribaorld, where any preplanned challenge can essentially by overcome through your own skill rather than following a story arc?

[Demonic Fate]

But it's definitely not open-ended in any way. Each scenario will throw a bunch of problems and challenges at you, you figure out how to beat them, and then there's no point playing further. This isn't, and isn't trying to be, a creative city builder where you can have fun simply designing your ideal city on your own.

But does it force you into specific railroaded plotlines you can't really avoid, or is it more like, say, Ribaorld, where any preplanned challenge can essentially by overcome through your own skill rather than following a story arc?

Never played Rimworld (I assume that's what you meant).

There's basically two classes of events, scenario events and triggered events. Triggered events are caused by the laws you chose and by the city stats (hunger, morale, diseases...). Scenario events are the fixed events for each campaign, and overcoming them is the point of the game.

For example, in the tutorial scenario, you will eventually discover another nearby city that has fallen (either you scout it on your own, or a survivor will eventually find his way to your city). This will lead some of your citizens to argue that your city is doomed and they should flee south. From that point, if you can keep morale very high, they will fail to build a following, quickly change their mind and drop their plans - all good. If you can't, they will try to leave (causing problems as they eg. steal supplies for the trip), and you can either make them stay by force l (if you have a militia) or let them leave and lose precious workers.

So the events are scripted to happen, but with high enough success you can power through them with minimal or no consequences. But it's a pretty tight game, so if you crank up the difficulty high enough there will not be mathematically enough resources to do everything perfectly. If you want to build a perfect paradise and avoid hard choices, stay on the lower difficulties.

[Norfleet]

So the events are scripted to happen, but with high enough success you can power through them with minimal or no consequences. But it's a pretty tight game, so if you crank up the difficulty high enough there will not be mathematically enough resources to do everything perfectly. If you want to build a perfect paradise and avoid hard choices, stay on the lower difficulties.

Hmm, interesting. So not TOO dissimilar to Ribaorld, where, say, if you invade a site and squat on it, the owners, or various scavengers, will stage constant attacks, with the designed expectation that you will eventually grab the goods and bugger off. You are, of course, not actually compelled to do this and are free to act as you wish, turning it into a tower defense game if you're gud enough at defending.

[Tangerine]

So the events are scripted to happen, but with high enough success you can power through them with minimal or no consequences. But it's a pretty tight game, so if you crank up the difficulty high enough there will not be mathematically enough resources to do everything perfectly. If you want to build a perfect paradise and avoid hard choices, stay on the lower difficulties.

Hmm, interesting. So not TOO dissimilar to Ribaorld, where, say, if you invade a site and squat on it, the owners, or various scavengers, will stage constant attacks, with the designed expectation that you will eventually grab the goods and bugger off. You are, of course, not actually compelled to do this and are free to act as you wish, turning it into a tower defense game if you're gud enough at defending.

Frostpunk's events are tightly scripted compared to RimWorld's probabilities.

[Maledict]

An example of this: There was some game, whose name I recall, where you overthrow an evil king and become king, only now that you are in the position, YOU are called upon to choose between the good and evil options to preserve the kingdom from the Threat, the evil option of which will give you more funds, the good option of which tends to result in you losing funds. The "story" therefore would be one where you're now the new evil king, forced into doing those same evil actions if you want to preserve the kingdom at all. But because it's NOT a story-driven game, you can do the "good" options simply by being, as a typical gamer, rich as ****, and therefore, can just eat the losses. Provided you were even the slightest bit gud at the game (so it's not really a hard game in that sense).

You're talking of Fable 3

[Norfleet]

Frostpunk's events are tightly scripted compared to RimWorld's probabilities.

Ribaorld's probabilities are such that things essentially WILL happen by sheer law of large numbers, though. If you create a vulnerability, **** WILL exploit it by sheer chance. You WILL die.

[Eyestabber]

This game is yet another city builder that promises "hard choices" and delivers "if you're ******* incompetent". Morality in these games tend to be a factor of your wealth and "immoral" choices are just the game offering you a little loan that you don't really need unless you suck. Every Tropico game starts out as a brutal dictatorship and ends in democracy with everyone being filthy rich and having access to every single public service. Enacting child labor, for instance, doesn't have benefits beyond the very early game since you'll be getting adult refuges from events all the ******* time. Meaning the "ethics x profit" choice is ultimately meaningless.

[Tweed]

I still need to play this since I bought it for some reason.

[Eyestabber]

I still need to play this since I bought it for some reason.

It's very atmospheric and enjoyable for one playthrough. Pretty much a storyfag game. You can either rule by religious zealotry or communism, yet both have buildings for lowering dissent and while they are different, I regret bothering a second time to try the other tree. It's a cool one and done experience that was grossly overhyped.

[rusty_shackleford]

What if instead of frostpunk it was frogpunk and you had to manage a colony of frogs
[searched thread before posting]

frogpunk

Oh, dang it.

[Tweed]

What if instead of frostpunk it was frogpunk and you had to manage a colony of frogs
[searched thread before posting]

frogpunk

Oh, dang it.

Eat a banana, old man.

[Norfleet]

This game is yet another city builder that promises "hard choices" and delivers "if you're ******* incompetent".

Isn't that basically the reality of "hard choices", though?

Given a predetermined starting position, the "4 SCVs and a Command Center", you will reach a choice. Either you can avoid the "bad" choice through how you played to reach that point, in which case the "hard choice" is a competence test, or you can't, in which case it is not a choice. And if you are forced to pick it due to incompetence, then it still wasn't a choice. If you voluntarily choose it anyway because you wish to, then it's a flavor pick, not a "hard" choice. Every choice, therefore, is either a skill test, a fake choice, or a flavor choice. "Hard" choices do not exist. It's either not a choice (because you either failed a skill test and thus have no choice, or the "option" cannot actually be avoided), or it's not hard, because you chose to choose that option despite the option to choose something else.