Can someone explain shooter level editors to me?

[rusty_shackleford]

What tools are used to make doom maps? Quake? Quake 2? Quake 3?
What is trenchboom?
what is netradiant?

How do these relate to the dark mod/unvanquished/xonotic?

[wndrbr]

netradiant is a fork of gtkradiant, brush-based level editor made by Id software for games powered by idtech. I assume it supports all quake games, doom 3, and those other open-source indie multiplayer shooters.

The Dark Mod uses its own fork of gtkradiant called darkradiant.

Trenchbroom was made by Quake enthusiasts, as far as i know it only supports Quake and Quake 2. Though there are probably tools existing that import trenchbroom's BSPs into Unity or Unreal.

[rusty_shackleford]

Were the Valve games based on the same engine/editors?

[wndrbr]

Were the Valve games based on the same engine/editors?

during the development of Quake 1, Id software made an editor called Quake Editor (duh). They later released Quake and Quake Editor source code, and some guy used it to create Worldcraft. Then Valve licensed Quake 1 engine, hired the Worldcraft guy, and developed their own engine and tools (GoldSrc and Valve Hammer respectively). They continued modifying Goldsrc and Valve Hammer, so technically modern Valve games such as Half-Life Alyx still use some of that codebase. The contemporary Source engine editor is still called Valve Hammer.

gtkradiant was built on Quake 2 base, support for Quake 1 was added later.

[rusty_shackleford]

Guide on using Trenchbroom to make MM6-7-8 maps
https://mm6.wiki/w/Making_Might_and_Mag ... renchbroom

[General Reign]

What tools are used to make doom maps? Quake? Quake 2? Quake 3?
What is trenchboom?
what is netradiant?

How do these relate to the dark mod/unvanquished/xonotic?

Slade is the Doom modding program that is used along with Doom Builder. Slade is what you use to fiddle with the scripts and all that but it also has a small level editor that is pretty handy. Slade is actually fairly easy to learn if you just tear into a mod and figure out how it works. At least that is how I learned.

The tools are so easy and strong that the modding community still produces top quality **** albeit much of it is Gzdoom focused which many purists hate.

[rusty_shackleford]

what's a valve 220 map?
what are patches, as in parts of maps not game patches?

how do doom 3 maps differ from quake maps?

[maidenhaver]

Guide on using Trenchbroom to make MM6-7-8 maps
https://mm6.wiki/w/Making_Might_and_Mag ... renchbroom

[Humbaba]

Level editing, modding etc. is the domain of transformers. Seeking their knowledge is the first step to becoming like them. Stay clear, stay straight, don't get into modding.



-Humbaba

[rusty_shackleford]

I got GPT4 to generate me some infos

1. Quake (id Tech 1)

• The .map format in this iteration is quite simple and primarily composed of brushes (convex polyhedra) that define solid spaces in the world.
• These brushes are defined by planes, and the intersections of these planes create the vertices of the brush.
• The file also contains entity definitions, which use a key-value pair system to define properties.

2. Quake II (id Tech 2)

• The core format is similar to the original Quake’s, but there are more advanced features, including support for more complex shading and lighting effects.
• It still relies heavily on brushes and entities defined by key-value pairs.

3. Quake III Arena (id Tech 3)

• This iteration brought a shift from just brushes to a combination of brushes and patches.
• Patches allow for more complex and curved surfaces.
• The format still retains the entity definition system using key-value pairs.
• Shader scripts became more prominent in defining the appearance and behavior of surfaces.

4. Doom 3 (id Tech 4)

• .map format becomes even more complex to accommodate the engine's more advanced lighting and shadowing capabilities.
• In addition to brushes and patches, it introduced support for models to be integrated directly into the map.
• The concept of "areas" was introduced for more efficient rendering and potential occlusion of unseen areas.

Detailed Comparison of .map Formats Across Various Games and Engines

• Quake 3 (id Tech 3)
  - The brush-based geometry system allows map creators to design complex levels using a combination of brushes (convex 3D shapes) and entities (game-specific objects and triggers).
  - Introduced the concept of Bezier patches, allowing for smoother curved surfaces.
  - The .shader system defines visual properties of surfaces, allowing for detailed texture behaviors, including animations, special effects, and blending operations.
  - Entity definitions use a key-value pair system, which offers flexibility in scripting in-game events and behaviors.
• Quake 4 (id Tech 4)
  - Inherits much of the id Tech 4 structure, including a focus on shadow volumes for real-time shadows.
  - The Stencil shadowing technique provided depth to scenes but required well-optimized .map structures.
  - Allows for higher polygon counts, reflecting a generational leap in graphical fidelity.
  - Continued support for both brush-based geometry and mesh models.
• Doom 3
  - Emphasized real-time dynamic lighting and shadowing, revolutionizing the way maps were lit.
  - The .map format included light volumes, which helped in optimizing real-time shadow computations.
  - Featured more complex shaders and materials, allowing for detailed surfaces with specular reflection, bump mapping, and other advanced effects.
  - The game heavily used "area portals" to help with rendering optimization.
• Doom 3 BFG
  - Introduced improvements in lighting and rendering, such as HDR lighting.
  - The map structure had optimizations to accommodate the new graphical enhancements.
  - Some legacy features from the original Doom 3 might be deprecated or modified.
• The Dark Mod
  - While initially a mod for Doom 3, The Dark Mod later became a standalone game with its own tweaks to the .map format.
  - Emphasized sound propagation and light interaction to support its stealth mechanics.
  - Enhanced AI pathfinding and interaction points required unique entity definitions.
• Xonotic
  - DarkPlaces engine offers enhanced graphical features over the original Quake, such as real-time world reflections, bloom, and more.
  - The .map format supports these advanced features, with a higher focus on visual fidelity.
  - Despite the visual enhancements, it retains compatibility with the original Quake map structure.
• Unvanquished (Daemon engine)
  - While grounded in id Tech 3, it integrates features from more modern engines.
  - Supports real-time normal mapping and parallax mapping, and the .map format accommodates these.
  - The game's hybrid nature of FPS and RTS elements likely introduces unique entity definitions to the .map format.
• Wolfenstein (2009)
  - Uses id Tech 4 as a foundation but introduces the "Veil" dimension, which likely has unique entities and triggers in the .map format.
  - Enhanced particle effects and physics-based interactions, requiring additional entity definitions.
• Call of Duty (2003)
  - Although it began with the id Tech 3 engine, the game engine underwent significant modifications.
  - Introduced large outdoor environments, moving beyond the traditionally indoor-focused id Tech maps.
  - The .map format supports more extensive terrains, possibly leveraging patches to create landscapes.
  - New entities related to the game's cinematic moments and vehicular sequences.
• Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
  - Builds upon the id Tech 3 engine, but with enhancements to support lightsaber combat and Force powers.
  - The .map format includes unique entities related to the Star Wars universe, like specific ships, droids, and force-related triggers.
  - Extensive scripting capabilities to support dynamic in-game events and cinematics.

Not sure how accurate it is, seems accurate based on what I know.

[rusty_shackleford]

Does any modern engine still use or support the quadratic bezier patches that were used in games like Quake 3: Arena and Quake 4?

[Oyster Sauce]

In 2005 I was making Far Cry maps on the Xbox with my friends. You could make mountains, forests, lakes, place vehicles, weapons or basically any of the premade assets the game had. It even had a seamless test mode that let you jump right in, run around, then zip back to the editor. No eldritch ****** knowledge required, a child could do it.

[rusty_shackleford]

It appears the latest Hammer versions no longer use CSG. Anyone know why?

Unlike the previous Hammer in both Source and GoldSrc engine, this version utilizes meshes instead of BSP brushes and includes many "modeling" software features.