Hooray: ****** gamedevs being fired thread

[rusty_shackleford]

Schreier says some devs are fuming because they "did what they were told."

"Make great games, take risks, try to win awards. It's okay if a game isn't a huge hit because it can still be useful to Xbox as part of this broad strategy to get games on Game Pass."
...
The messaging was not "You must hit X amount of profitability." The messaging was "Make good games, help us fill out Game Pass, try to win awards. Of course, don't lose money, break even. This is not a profit play. This is kind of 'Game Pass is the north star.'"

Yeah, well you didn't break even, did you?

"MEAN PUBLISHERS TELLING DEVS WHAT TO DO IS WHY GAMES ARE BAD!!!!!" redditor argument wrong again for the 1000th time

[J1M]

Schreier says some devs are fuming because they "did what they were told."

"Make great games, take risks, try to win awards. It's okay if a game isn't a huge hit because it can still be useful to Xbox as part of this broad strategy to get games on Game Pass."
...
The messaging was not "You must hit X amount of profitability." The messaging was "Make good games, help us fill out Game Pass, try to win awards. Of course, don't lose money, break even. This is not a profit play. This is kind of 'Game Pass is the north star.'"

Yeah, well you didn't break even, did you?

They skipped the make good games step.

[Niggler]

I wonder if game dev as an entrepreneur thing would even be worth my time. I've always wanted to be one but I've been burnt out for a long time and seeking such a career seems hopeless...

Much more likely to succeed starting a lawn care company.

Well I'd rather fail doing something I enjoy and trying to fulfill my dream than barely scrape by with the current job system. Rather die living than live dying. Also, I'm a NEET who lives with my mother and is currently seeking SNAP and disability due to my autism while taking care of her and her animals, so what's it matter anyway?

[Tangerine]

Just stop being autistic.

[Rand]

2. Demographic Headwind

After decades of "the future is gaming", gaming is now a default and future generations are increasingly diversified in their attention spend, many preferring to watch people play or engaging with highly addictive short form video over the time investments needed to actually play games.

For a while, the cope was "people watch youtube in the background while also playing games", but short form video does not allow split attention, and it's rapidly growing.

3. Competition and Oversupply

Gaming used to be the best entertainment value for money for many years. This is no longer true: A video subscription is easily competitive with most gaming options on price.

On the root level, competition for attention involves the world's best funded and most ruthless companies who have spent decades a/b testing their platforms into digital crack cocaine.

These two points baffle me. Perhaps it is because I am immune to the social media nonsense.
But I cannot see how looking at random crappy videos on your phone compares to active engagement with a game.
To me it's like a failing arcade owner in the 80s saying "Business in my ****** arcade is down because all the kids that used to come here would rather watch TV instead."
Shithead, they're different activities for different moods. You have boring games turned up to max difficulty and you want loonies instead of quarters. You did this to yourself.
(Oh, and your arcade is full of **** looking for blowjobs in the bathroom...)

Now the writer has one good point:
Most devastating, the industry is competing with its own backlog, with top end titles now having a shelf-life of 10-12 years. Games like Metal Gear Solid: Ground Zeroes, GTA 5, Skyrim and RDR now stay in storefronts for decades, often reduced to $10 or less during sales events. Skyrim, Fallout and now the barely 10 years old Assassin's Creed Blackflag keep getting re-released and remastered, competing with newer products with an unfair nostalgia advantage and low innovation risk.

In 2026, the majority of games played are six years old and older, with an increasing number of players concentrating on fewer and fewer platform titles.

4. The Pacemakers are dead.

Now, players can choose AAA-gameplay games from 10 years ago on a steam sale that look, on their HD Screens, identical to newer offerings, offerings often comparing unfavourably due to aggressive in game monetisation, DLC and investor driven value extraction more common in newer titles. Even worse, older titles from the nether realms of the 2000s are starting to come back, remastered, or upscaled, to compete with phenomenally expensive to produce new titles for gamer's attention time.

Non-technical innovation, by contrast, is harder to predict, impossible to "cost" and "plan", making it unreliable. Extremely successful games like Minecraft, Pokémon Go often stand alone as highly successful outliers as the result of a unique convergence of factors rather than repeatable blueprints for the industry, making for a terrible investment pitch.

Sure, Nintendo may come and ride to publishers' rescue again, like with the Switch, innovating where others cannot, but that's hopium with a long runway to recovery at this point.

CP2077 and Elden Ring and Crimson Desert somewhat put the lie to this as well, however.
Just make good games the players want, bro.

Look at Gothic Remake. Far more people have seen or played that in the last two weeks than in the two decades prior. Because it's a good design, and made in modern interface standards.
Even if the original never existed and this was released, it would have done well because it is legitimately nice looking and fun to play and it didn't cost tens of millions (or hundreds!) to make.

► Show Spoiler

As for the AI "arguments"... I'm not even going to give that ********* any attention because it deserves none.

[Rand]

ID and Machinegames may get hit despite releasing new games on a regular basis and not getting stuck in development hell.

MachineGames hasn't made anything even barely acceptable since at least 2017, before they made the excremental "Wolfenstein: Youngblood".

[Rand]

I feel like the only reason Bethesda clings to life is because of the promise of Elder Scrolls 6. Moment they release it, and it's ****, they're done for. It's probably why they're putting it off indefinitely. Fear.

According to Microsoft, it's their ****** versions of Fallout that are the main interest.
Apparently they have decided they are no longer happy with the Starfield diversion wasting so much time, delaying ES6, and all that preventing even starting on Fallout 5.
Allegedly Bethesda/Todd is being told to start working on both of them seriously right ******* now, and cancel everything else going on so as to put developers on them.

[Roguey]

But I cannot see how looking at random crappy videos on your phone compares to active engagement with a game.

All generations are like that. You had people who would rather listen to programs on the radio than read, then people who would rather watch movies than listen to radio programs, then people who would rather watch tv than go to the movies, then people who would rather play games than watch tv and so on. As Timothee Chalamet put it recently, "I don't want to be working in ballet, or opera, or things where it's like, 'Hey, keep this thing alive, even though like no one cares about this anymore.'"

CP2077 and Elden Ring and Crimson Desert somewhat put the lie to this as well, however.
Just make good games the players want, bro.

The thing about "good" games is that they now have to make something that's as good or even better than the Forever Games of the past. Does New Thing offer more than Skyrim, Fallout 4, Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, Baldur's Gate 3, and so on? If yes, then another Forever Game gets added to the list. No? Then millions of people don't really care for it and can do without it, happily sinking more hours into those oldies.

Look at Gothic Remake. Far more people have seen or played that in the last two weeks than in the two decades prior. Because it's a good design, and made in modern interface standards.
Even if the original never existed and this was released, it would have done well because it is legitimately nice looking and fun to play and it didn't cost tens of millions (or hundreds!) to make.

The only people who care about Gothic Remake are Poles, Russians, and Germans because of nostalgic cultural pride and a lot of them received the original game for free with the purchase of a magazine long ago, can't really build an industry out of that.

[J1M]

I wonder if game dev as an entrepreneur thing would even be worth my time. I've always wanted to be one but I've been burnt out for a long time and seeking such a career seems hopeless...

Much more likely to succeed starting a lawn care company.

Well I'd rather fail doing something I enjoy and trying to fulfill my dream than barely scrape by with the current job system. Rather die living than live dying. Also, I'm a NEET who lives with my mother and is currently seeking SNAP and disability due to my autism while taking care of her and her animals, so what's it matter anyway?

If it is something you really enjoy and really aspire to do, it can be accomplished as a hobby while also making an income.

[Rand]

can't really build an industry out of that.

Bingo!
You've found the problem. It's a wrong-headed "Industry".
Nintendo gets it. Old game companies, even old ECA ElectronicArts got it.
You make an overarching publishing/support corporation and you get developers to make a shitload of games for reasonable money.
Most of them won't be hits, but you'll do well enough on those so when you finally get a standout, you get a big payday.
You don't donate to DEI charity, either through donations, ads, SBI consultants, or just hiring ******, fractious women to make a toxic HR department/executive branch.
Big corporations have exactly the wrong incentives.
Look at CDProjektRed. They fell for it. Instead of remaining the functional and productive company that made The Witcher games, they got seduced into the "corporate games industry" stock market MBA ******** and so now they pretty much have to produce a blockbuster every release.
UbiSoft's downfall was the same.
Misaligned executive incentives. It's why Valve fails to fail (they don't exactly succeed, but they don't shoot themselves in the head/foot like everone else does daily, so...)

[Roguey]

You make an overarching publishing/support corporation and you get developers to make a shitload of games for reasonable money.
Most of them won't be hits, but you'll do well enough on those so when you finally get a standout, you get a big payday.

Microsoft employed this strategy for the past six years and it blew up in their face spectacularly. They "trusted" devs, "dumbfucks."

[SpellSword]

A blog entry from back in April where the guy who designed Dragon Age: Origins's systems declares that the current system of western gaming is coming to an end https://this.os.isfine.org/blog/posts/t ... ark-night/

For a while, the cope was "people watch youtube in the background while also playing games", but short form video does not allow split attention, and it's rapidly growing.

I hadn't considered that part about the shorter videos competing for attention.

...competing with newer products with an unfair nostalgia advantage and low innovation risk.

"Unfair"

Being able to purchase any book that was ever written doesn't mean I won't get a newer one. It just means the hook needs to be good. Many of the highly regarded classic games have rough edges. There is no reason a better experience can't be offered with the modern tools available.

What do these major AAA companies offer the modern gamer?

• A buggy mess filled with unwanted wokeness.
• A game that carries a high price tag and yet asks more and more for additional DLC.
• Content that will be discontinued if not experienced by specific real world dates.
• A guarantee that the purchased game won't be playable 20 years later due to DRM.

They're asking a lot for trash that I'm not interested in buying.

In 2026, the majority of games played are six years old and older, with an increasing number of players concentrating on fewer and fewer platform titles.

That sounds about right. I've been watching the market carefully for something interesting, but outside of the indie sphere, there is very little that is appealing.

They've backed themselves into a corner. The games that a AAA company is expected to create have an unreasonable cost for the company creating them.

• Giant musical orchestra?
  I don't care. They spent for nothing.
• Photorealistic graphics?
  Looks generic by todays standards.
• A staff of thousands that needs to be paid?
  So the game requires a massive amount of earnings to make all that back up.
• A tome's worth of writing?
  Well that should be good actually... but instead I'll have to slog my way through meaningless books that have been randomly dropped through the world or dialogue that the majority of players will want to just skip, skip, skip!!!
• Pay real actors can be scanned into the game.
  Not every game benefits from having Debra Wilson in it. Besides they're just going to smack around the face of any women they use with an ugly stick until it looks more modern.
• Cutting edge tech!
  Do they think anyone's going to upgrade their PC for one of these games? It'd better be the next killer app or there is just no way.

They don't know what to make or even how to make it with a reasonable budget. After spending years slashing and burning the legacy of each brand and series, they're still surprised it isn't working out for them.

But if you take the time to throw the slop into the trough, aren't the hogs supposed to eat it? Isn't that act in itself enough?

Top Class Hog.webp

They're looking down on the people who are making the purchase. With options on the table, what's on offer simply isn't tasty enough.

Sure, Nintendo may come and ride to publishers' rescue again, like with the Switch, innovating where others cannot, but that's hopium with a long runway to recovery at this point.

Will they? I don't own a Switch nor a Switch 2, and I'm betting I'm not alone in this.

...online gambling and loot boxes is under multi front attack in many jurisdictions, adding to the woes.

►

Count Dankula - "Oh no, what happened? Oh no, how terrible! That's just awful, how terrible oh no!"

Video gaming being turned into an actual casino is one of the most cancerous things that has happened to the industry.

[Rand]

Microsoft employed this strategy for the past six years and it blew up in their face spectacularly. They "trusted" devs, "dumbfucks."

That's not what I was talking about. Their fuckup was different and I can explain it easily if you somehow fail to understand their mistake.
Or you can watch this YT video that explains the mistake that moron Spencer made:
bro they are crashing out so hard..

[Roguey]

That's not what I was talking about. Their fuckup was different and I can explain it easily if you somehow fail to understand their mistake.
Or you can watch this YT video that explains the mistake that moron Spencer made:

I don't watch video essays, low IQ medium.

They bought a bunch of developers and gave them the time and money they claimed they needed to make "good" games. They didn't make good games.

[Rand]

I don't watch video essays, low IQ medium.

Then persist in your elite ignorance.
(I know you don't need my encouragement to do so, but it's a rhetorical response for others.)
You're missing a lot of important things there for what exactly was happening and why.

[GayFatRetard]

Bethesda is still employed. The industry hasn't crashed hard enough.

[Breathe]

Still waiting for 343 to be shuttered. They've done nothing but lose money for M$ since their inception. It's crazy they're still there.

[UltraFan123]

Schreier says some devs are fuming because they "did what they were told."

"Make great games, take risks, try to win awards. It's okay if a game isn't a huge hit because it can still be useful to Xbox as part of this broad strategy to get games on Game Pass."
...
The messaging was not "You must hit X amount of profitability." The messaging was "Make good games, help us fill out Game Pass, try to win awards. Of course, don't lose money, break even. This is not a profit play. This is kind of 'Game Pass is the north star.'"

Yeah, well you didn't break even, did you?

I got a good chuckle at the "try to win awards" bit.

Ever since The Slop of Us 2 won Game of the Year 2020 over Ghost of Tsushima, nobody really cares about game awards ****.

[roldet]

Astro Bot win was even worse, at least TLOU2 had some some technical merits. As for 2020 i would have picked Nioh 2. It doesn't have mainstream appeal but since they picked the most hated game ever and later a ****** Mario clone nobody played...

[Niggler]

Astro Bot win was even worse, at least TLOU2 had some some technical merits. As for 2020 i would have picked Nioh 2. It doesn't have mainstream appeal but since they picked the most hated game ever and later a ****** Mario clone nobody played...

Had Swen Vincke announce Astro Bot's win too

[Val the Moofia Boss]

These two points baffle me. Perhaps it is because I am immune to the social media nonsense.
But I cannot see how looking at random crappy videos on your phone compares to active engagement with a game.
To me it's like a failing arcade owner in the 80s saying "Business in my ****** arcade is down because all the kids that used to come here would rather watch TV instead."

Short form content is absolutely a big deal now. Short form content is about trying to concentrate as much entertainment in as little time as possible and is addictive.

In China there has been the rise of micro Cdramas being filmed at the Hengdian where you watch a 1-2 minute episode on your phone, get hooked, and then pay to watch the next 1 minute episode, and so on for 60 to 100 episodes (first few episodes are free). Actors from there have skyrocketed and become stars. The micro cdrama industry is making billions of USD.

It is yet another thing that is competing for and splitting people's limited time like watching TV, reading books, browsing the web or forums, watching youtube, walking your dog, etc. Meaning that the net amount of time dedicated to videogames gets reduced. You might not be personally interested in watching short form content, but other people are and their time is reduced as a result.

[rusty_shackleford]

anyone who watches shortform content should be forced to live as a peasant

[Roguey]

Then persist in your elite ignorance.
(I know you don't need my encouragement to do so, but it's a rhetorical response for others.)
You're missing a lot of important things there for what exactly was happening and why.

I'll read Schreier's transcripts even though he's an off-putting weasel because he has genuine industry contacts. These loser devs like the guy and will tell him things. Some guy calling himself "Dalfang" who titles his video "We are witnessing a generational crashout" and makes his thumbnail some disgusting looking AI Slop - this guy is just another low status, low-intelligence individual with an opinion.

[UltraFan123]

These two points baffle me. Perhaps it is because I am immune to the social media nonsense.
But I cannot see how looking at random crappy videos on your phone compares to active engagement with a game.
To me it's like a failing arcade owner in the 80s saying "Business in my ****** arcade is down because all the kids that used to come here would rather watch TV instead."

Short form content is absolutely a big deal now. Short form content is about trying to concentrate as much entertainment in as little time as possible and is addictive.

In China there has been the rise of micro Cdramas being filmed at the Hengdian where you watch a 1-2 minute episode on your phone, get hooked, and then pay to watch the next 1 minute episode, and so on for 60 to 100 episodes (first few episodes are free). Actors from there have skyrocketed and become stars. The micro cdrama industry is making billions of USD.

It is yet another thing that is competing for and splitting people's limited time like watching TV, reading books, browsing the web or forums, watching youtube, walking your dog, etc. Meaning that the net amount of time dedicated to videogames gets reduced. You might not be personally interested in watching short form content, but other people are and their time is reduced as a result.

This is quite interesting.

Basically, you still get the viewer to watch an hour-long film by splitting the film in 60 separate minute-long episodes instead of a single video chunk that they have to sit for.

It wouldn't be that difficult to adapt for other forms of content in the rest of the world.

But I'm one of those who think that younger generations having too small attention spans isn't a good thing for the long run.

[Rand]

nobody really cares about game awards ****

Not true.
Executives and development managers cared. That's the problem.
For companies like Microsoft/Xbox under Phil Spencer, it was THE point. They thought it would translate into subscriptions, because it "worked" for Hollywood movies & TV.
It's why the games media is losing it. It turns out that their little back-scratching cheerleading arrangement was socially fraudulent and they don't like learning their place.

[Rand]

These two points baffle me. Perhaps it is because I am immune to the social media nonsense.
But I cannot see how looking at random crappy videos on your phone compares to active engagement with a game.
To me it's like a failing arcade owner in the 80s saying "Business in my ****** arcade is down because all the kids that used to come here would rather watch TV instead."

Short form content is absolutely a big deal now. Short form content is about trying to concentrate as much entertainment in as little time as possible and is addictive.

In China there has been the rise of micro Cdramas being filmed at the Hengdian where you watch a 1-2 minute episode on your phone, get hooked, and then pay to watch the next 1 minute episode, and so on for 60 to 100 episodes (first few episodes are free). Actors from there have skyrocketed and become stars. The micro cdrama industry is making billions of USD.

It is yet another thing that is competing for and splitting people's limited time like watching TV, reading books, browsing the web or forums, watching youtube, walking your dog, etc. Meaning that the net amount of time dedicated to videogames gets reduced. You might not be personally interested in watching short form content, but other people are and their time is reduced as a result.

Huh. That would appeal to me like a self-administered proctological exam. I don't get it at all.

[Rand]

this guy is just another low status, low-intelligence individual with an opinion.

Okay pot.

[UltraFan123]

nobody really cares about game awards ****

Not true.
Executives and development managers cared. That's the problem.
For companies like Microsoft/Xbox under Phil Spencer, it was THE point. They thought it would translate into subscriptions, because it "worked" for Hollywood movies & TV.
It's wht the games media is losing it. It turns out that their little arrangement was socially fraudulent and they don't like learning their place.

Well yes, that's what I meant.

The gamers who actually pay for games eventually stopped caring about "official" game awards when the queerfreak slop was being rewarded instead of actual fun games.

[maidenhaver]

Just close bethesda and use Fallout and TES as licenses.

[Niggler]

But I'm one of those who think that younger generations having too small attention spans isn't a good thing for the long run.

I'm a zoom and I agree as well as have the same problem, perhaps related to AdHD but still the same issue with poor attention spans. It really is that fuckin phone...