Everquest: Legends

[Xenich]

THJ was fun, but because of how easy it was, it got old quickly. Sure, there were some difficult fights, but it isn't just about the fights to me(that is modern MMO style, ie WoW all about the battle). I like the struggle in progression, the slow grind, the having to camp for coveted items to gain in power to be able to progress to the next areas, the down time, the recovery. I like travel that is slow, takes time and gives more value to the various spells and abilities of the utility classes and makes the world feel bigger.

EQ has always been about the "journey" to me. I did all the raid crap and well... sure... it was fun in its own way, but it really turns into a drag playing babysitter to a bunch of greedy people who fight over the drops all of the time or can't seem to follow simple directions. Then there is the fact that people these days are far more sensitive and volatile about such making organizing and running the raids a real pain in the ***.

I prefer small group play and if they get this right, the game could be quite enjoyable. I just don't want the modern PTW and "EC/bazaar *****" game to take over, it really screwed up the game play in EQ (and made THJ short lived) with everyone camping items so they could play the "trade up" game rather than earning it in play (no drop would be perfect in this). This is where instancing shines as you no longer have to compete with those tools and you and your small group can work through the content at an even pace without all the hassles of dealing with camps, camp stealing, and the usual morons ruining things. I mean, sure... dealing with the the chaos was fun for a while, but it gets old really fast.

As for paying... seriously, I don't get people these days. They complain over paying a sub, but then dump tons of cash on the most wasteful crap you can imagine in their everyday lives. I knew a guy who complained about a sub, but then was paying monthly for his phone, car, computer, etc... it wasn't because he was frugal, so I don't get it.

Anyway, like THJ, they have to balance this right when they do it or I won't be interested. There are too many options coming out soon with MMOs to play a game I have done to death since release. If the "journey" isn't there, it won't be worth it to me.

[rusty_shackleford]

including one from Quarm

beep boop ****** alert

[rusty_shackleford]

Also that implies this probably won't even be using the official client(or official server backend), this is just a deybreak "approved" project. This is going to be a mess!

[Xenich]

I'm sure this will be a hit initially, but the ***** themselves cannot innovate. Their main income has been doing TLP after TLP with no real change and expansions that do nothing but bloat the numbers. Legends is obviously a take on THJ because it was so popular, but once the initial "wow" factor fades, what will they do to keep it interesting? The THJ devs had good ideas. Self-found and hardcore modes would have been very popular and that was on the table before the lolsuit.

Yeah, the THJ devs were figuring out that the concept of multiclass while very cool, is a novelty if there isn't game play. Game has to slow down, the content has to be a series of stepping stones or there is now point. AA's limited and no drop will be a HUGE improvement to the game if that gets implemented.

[Xenich]

Also that implies this probably won't even be using the official client(or official server backend), this is just a deybreak "approved" project. This is going to be a mess!

While I am interested, I have a feeling you are right... it is going to miss the mark.

Oh well, M&M looks like it will hit the mark and Pantheon while having its own issues, "may" be able to pull something off it does its "server ruleset" thing.

[anvi]

I agree THJ was a bit too easy and fast. I also would have liked the progression to include more things, at least in the first few expansions. It was also pretty repetitive. I know that's kind of to be expected. But the battles in the first few expansions were mostly a walkover, even including Luclin. It is mostly because of buying overpowered Baz gear like mentioned earlier.

But I would have liked to see more mechanics in the raid fights instead of tank n spank vs everything. There was that one guy who drains all your mana which was ok. I liked Quarm because he was tough and bringing in previous bosses was interesting. My favourite battle was Seru. Killing him solo was a big challenge. Some of my characters could do it but some couldn't. I liked having to hide from his area spells, and I liked having to get special weapons for him. And having a heal clicky was a huge help. And I liked having to slow his buddies or needing enough healing to cope, or enough dps to rush it. But most other fights were tank n spank and gear stats carries you through. I know people who would engage Kerafyrm and go AFK. I would have liked a bit more variety to the battles.

The 3 multiclassing was the main attraction for me. I felt like I could figure out something other people hadn't found yet and find a nifty combo. Most of the fun I had was making new characters and levelling them up. I liked clearing entire zones in one pull and blasting them all to hell. In DN for the phat exp. Or in Umbral for the phat loots. Although the multiclass side could have been better. It devolved into cookie cutter builds pretty fast which is shame when there was supposed to be 511 possible combinations or something. If you are using magic then you really need a Wiz to give huge crits and damage to spells and procs. You also really needed some kind of tank to deal with the big raid bosses. The SK/Wiz/Bard became really common. Bard+Wiz was killer for grinding. The balance changes I liked but it was so swingy, it kept making flavor of the month builds which at first I thought was them trying to perfect the balancing to make all the classes viable. But some people thought it was just an excuse for them to sell respecs and things. Still the most fun I had was making new builds and chasing the meta. I loved the Ench with Doppleganger. I loved the Druid after they boosted it with huge dots and stuff.

Most of all I loved the Mage. That pet was as good as a raid tank, and having the huge backpack full of equipment was a lot of fun for me. It was like having to gear up another character which kept me playing longer. I made my own solo server after THJ died but I couldn't make the mage work like that so I missed it. Hope they don't skimp on that mage tweak in EQL.

As for EQL I will keep my eye on it. I don't like Secrets but he/she/it is skilled with the tech stuff. If it has instancing and they don't money ***** too much with paying for AAs and potions and things then I could play it. Especially if there's no kronos. I would be surprised if they do a decent job though. I trust the player-devs. I don't trust DBG to not have pay to win stuff with kronos. I guess we'll see how it pans out.

[Xenich]

I agree THJ was a bit too easy and fast. I also would have liked the progression to include more things, at least in the first few expansions. It was also pretty repetitive. I know that's kind of to be expected. But the battles in the first few expansions were mostly a walkover, even including Luclin. It is mostly because of buying overpowered Baz gear like mentioned earlier.

But I would have liked to see more mechanics in the raid fights instead of tank n spank vs everything. There was that one guy who drains all your mana which was ok. I liked Quarm because he was tough and bringing in previous bosses was interesting. My favourite battle was Seru. Killing him solo was a big challenge. Some of my characters could do it but some couldn't. I liked having to hide from his area spells, and I liked having to get special weapons for him. And having a heal clicky was a huge help. And I liked having to slow his buddies or needing enough healing to cope, or enough dps to rush it. But most other fights were tank n spank and gear stats carries you through. I know people who would engage Kerafyrm and go AFK. I would have liked a bit more variety to the battles.

The 3 multiclassing was the main attraction for me. I felt like I could figure out something other people hadn't found yet and find a nifty combo. Most of the fun I had was making new characters and levelling them up. I liked clearing entire zones in one pull and blasting them all to hell. In DN for the phat exp. Or in Umbral for the phat loots. Although the multiclass side could have been better. It devolved into cookie cutter builds pretty fast which is shame when there was supposed to be 511 possible combinations or something. If you are using magic then you really need a Wiz to give huge crits and damage to spells and procs. You also really needed some kind of tank to deal with the big raid bosses. The SK/Wiz/Bard became really common. Bard+Wiz was killer for grinding. The balance changes I liked but it was so swingy, it kept making flavor of the month builds which at first I thought was them trying to perfect the balancing to make all the classes viable. But some people thought it was just an excuse for them to sell respecs and things. Still the most fun I had was making new builds and chasing the meta. I loved the Ench with Doppleganger. I loved the Druid after they boosted it with huge dots and stuff.

Most of all I loved the Mage. That pet was as good as a raid tank, and having the huge backpack full of equipment was a lot of fun for me. It was like having to gear up another character which kept me playing longer. I made my own solo server after THJ died but I couldn't make the mage work like that so I missed it. Hope they don't skimp on that mage tweak in EQL.

As for EQL I will keep my eye on it. I don't like Secrets but he/she/it is skilled with the tech stuff. If it has instancing and they don't money ***** too much with paying for AAs and potions and things then I could play it. Especially if there's no kronos. I would be surprised if they do a decent job though. I trust the player-devs. I don't trust DBG to not have pay to win stuff with kronos. I guess we'll see how it pans out.

he/she/it ?

[anvi]

Secrets is ******

[rusty_shackleford]

It won't have character bound gear because they'll want people to buy kronos to sell to buy items
also DBG does nothing about exploiters so the market will be ruined pretty fast

[Xenich]

Secrets is ******

Then call them by what they biologically are, or simply say *****. Cut this pandering to the ******* mentally ill ****.

[anvi]

They are so exploititive with money. Those kronos are so lame. And they also have Station Cash you can buy with real money. And then subscriptions to unlock more AAs and whatever else. So that's 3 forms of payment for one game. A lot of people hate subscriptions but I liked everyone having to pay one fixed price and that gave you everything. If people wanted QOL stuff or fancy looking things, they had to go hunt for it in the game or do the quests. As soon as people could just buy things with real money it made everything meaningless to a lot of people. I would rather not engage in that stuff, or not play at all.

In THJ I liked getting some cosmetic armor. As a mage I had to wear a robe/dress. But you could buy various plate armor to go over it. I bought some shiny black plate armor like a tank. It cost me about 50k platinum. That was a little side project for me while I played. It gave me something long term to work towards, and gave me a reason to have money in the game. I already had the important gear so I would lose interest at that point. But needing another 50k for the metal plate kept me playing a bit longer. Although even in THJ it seemed less interesting because you could buy those token things with real life cash and trade them in game for game cash. Usually that made me just not interested in that side of the game, I would just play for the gameplay then quit. In the live game that is even worse with all the different forms of payment. The only way it could be worse would be having lootboxes too.

[anvi]

Secrets is ******

Then call them by what they biologically are, or simply say *****. Cut this pandering to the ******* mentally ill ****.

But you wouldn't know unless I highlighted it, that was the point. And calling them an "it" is the opposite of pandering. If you believe in modern law that could get me arrested.

Also fwiw I hated him even before he cut his **** off.

[Xenich]

Secrets is ******

Then call them by what they biologically are, or simply say *****. Cut this pandering to the ******* mentally ill ****.

But you wouldn't know unless I highlighted it, that was the point. And calling them an "it" is the opposite of pandering. If you believe in modern law that could get me arrested.

Also fwiw I hated him even before he cut his **** off.

I wasn't sure if you were trying to be a pronoun guy (it is sometimes used by the "Im an attack helicopter" types), just kind of urked me is all... I am so tired of people pandering to those mentally ill freaks. Just use ***** (or ***/**** if they are one of those) if you are trying to point out they are ******* ******** like that, otherwise... they are their actual sex, no matter how much dress up or cutting things off they do.

[anvi]

It is a creepy Marxist created attack. A lot of psychology is too.

[rusty_shackleford]

Why is that? The problem would be specific to the factors I mentioned. The variable issue is the fact that instead of content balanced to a group of 6, it would be balanced for a group of 4. They didn't elaborate the details about how easy it will be for a person to solo the group content and if they make the group content easy to solo, what point will there be to do it with 4 people? So I am guessing that solo, you will be able to do various content depending on gear and level, with full group being the likely balance.

I would think some tweaking with spawn times may help (they have to be careful here), but population balance will be the biggest factor I think.

Because there will be tens of thousands of people

Alright man, it's Everquest, settle down.

https://www.daybreakgames.com/press/eql ... april-2026

The response to EQ Legends has been overwhelming. We currently have almost 35,000 Beta signups so far, and that number continues to grow rapidly each day.

[Oyster Sauce]

Because there will be tens of thousands of people

Alright man, it's Everquest, settle down.

https://www.daybreakgames.com/press/eql ... april-2026

The response to EQ Legends has been overwhelming. We currently have almost 35,000 Beta signups so far, and that number continues to grow rapidly each day.

So 500 players online at once

[Xenich]

I'm sure this will be a hit initially, but the ***** themselves cannot innovate. Their main income has been doing TLP after TLP with no real change and expansions that do nothing but bloat the numbers. Legends is obviously a take on THJ because it was so popular, but once the initial "wow" factor fades, what will they do to keep it interesting? The THJ devs had good ideas. Self-found and hardcore modes would have been very popular and that was on the table before the lolsuit.

Depends. If they replicate THJ as it was, yeah... people are going to burn through, get bored and move on. If they focus on more long term development with all the tricks (no-drop gear, restricted AAs, etc...), then that alone will retain some people and if they decide to simply carry this up through all of the EQ expansions, it certainly is enough to keep people chasing that carrot for quite a while.

I mean, going through all of EQ with a solo/small group focus that tries to balance some aspect of real progression and play, I can't say I don't find that very appealing and wouldn't be playing it.

The only issue they have is there is some contest for old school MMOs coming up (M&M, Pantheon, and this) which will certainly spread the base. I know for me, I am torn a bit. I love the idea of M&M experiencing a more original EQ concept of play in a new world, but also I am interested in Pantheons take (ruleset server contingent obviously, but even then I might dabble), and with EQ Legends, the thought of being able to legitimately tackle content I didn't play much (ie GoD and up) if they push on past the usual "Golden Era" is very appealing.

Heck, if all of these projects can legitimately succeed enough to stay functioning and moving forward, MMO gaming for me will be like a kid in a candy store.

[Kalarion]

I'm sure this will be a hit initially, but the ***** themselves cannot innovate. Their main income has been doing TLP after TLP with no real change and expansions that do nothing but bloat the numbers. Legends is obviously a take on THJ because it was so popular, but once the initial "wow" factor fades, what will they do to keep it interesting? The THJ devs had good ideas. Self-found and hardcore modes would have been very popular and that was on the table before the lolsuit.

Remember that this is being developed on what looks like a license or whatever, akin to P99's deal with Deybrake. I think it's eminently reasonable to assume the ***** will steal all of THJ's ideas wholesale, not just the multiclassing and item improvement

[Xenich]

This video was interesting... I am not entirely sure how this is going to be implemented, but if they do it right, it could be quite enjoyable. That is, if they not only tune the content for 4 and 8 mans, but... also take into consideration the multiclassing aspect concerning those encounters, you could end up with some challenging content again, a new experience of EQ with fewer people and not simply a overpowering concept that THJ was (to be fair, a lot of THJs "overpower" was due to bazaar gear purchase and later AA expansion access). If they approach it with some systemic means in the encounter balancing, the game could be quite challenging.

That said, I am not sure. There are a lot of questions on how they are going to approach that tuning (ie will they be changing encounter behaviors/abilities, or simply scaling it in a simplistic linear fashion). Regardless, I think it could be quite successful if they handle it right, especially if there is attention to the non-combat aspects of progression and development.



Everquest Legends Goes Way Beyond Solo \u2014 And Your Combo Isn\u0027t Ready

[anvi]

This sounds troublesome. Lots of woke **** going on with people asking for races to have darker skintone options and other people raging it goes against the lore, and then the ****** creators talking about how they have changed the lore for this server. (Also one of the devs is called SissyFist? WTF) The biggest shocker is talk of "One character per server due to technical constraints." If true that is truly ********. A big hook with THJ was making new characters to try out new builds. It even gave your new characters bonus AAs based on how many you got on your main character. With 1 character you can't even have a bank mule. People say they will likely sell extra character slots.

I also don't like how they are making group content for 4 people and raid content tuned for 8 people. The whole attraction of THJ was being able to solo everything without having to deal with all the nerds spergs guilds and ********. It seems they are making their own concoction around multiclassing, but it is nothing like THJ which sucks. I miss THJ!

[anvi]

Also with THJ there was something like 511 possible combinations. But that's not going to happen here if it still requires tanks, healers, control, support. My first character on THJ was a Berserker/Necro/Bard and it was awesome because the Zerker could tank despite being a dps. The Bard could AOE the hell out of entire zones, and then the Necro had an AA which recovered all mana to full with one click. It was synergy I didn't even plan for, it just turned out fun. I made several other characters and they were all fun, and all capable of clearing entire zones solo. I also could solo through all the raid content except maybe the last 1 or 2 bosses that I could only do on a few classes that were naturally strong combos or I got all the best gear for.

There was a lot of other custom stuff on THJ that made it work well. Like the Sympathetic Healing/DPS clickies. That let you heal on any character that spams spells. So you weren't required to have a dedicated healer in the build or a dedicated tank. There's no way most of those 500+ combos could work without these extra tricks. EQL sounds like it will have lame strict meta builds like tank/healer/control. My most fun build on THJ was something like a Druid/Shm/Enc which worked because the Enc's doppleganger AA was super powerful turning all 3 weak pets into strong ones. They also boosted magic damage to make combos like that more viable. EQL sounds like they won't have any of that. Also some of the AAs like the beastlord stuff would let you heal from attacks, so even on the hardest raid content you could survive if you timed your AAs like that well. EQL sounds like it caters to fixed groups of people who dedicate their build to be the ultimate tank, and then you need to team up with an ultimate healer etc. This is playing into the hands of the multibox armies that plague the progression servers, people running their own group using virtual PCs and ****. Otherwise you need to schedule your gaming around a guild or group of ******* who want to speedrun through everything by the book and using the designated meta.

[Xenich]

So far, everything I am seeing is missing the point of a "progression" based concept of play. They seem to be streamlining a lot of things (A lot of AAs have been removed and "converged"), and it seems player trade is going to be in (unless they are planning a specific server for no-drop). All in all, I think Legends is likely to be more focused to mainstreaming in direction as opposed to THJs plans to change in a focus with their proposed styles of play. There will be a store as well for cosmetics and potions as well from what I could tell.

The more I see, the more I think it will be a simply a "mainstreamers" vision of EQ and won't pay focus to all of the subtle elements of progression that EQ had. /shrug

[anvi]

I think it sounds more like EQ with multiclass than THJ which was like a whole other kind of gameplay. THJ had so many custom things that all worked so well. Like the huge pet bags. I always loved playing pet classes but hated that they didn't scale properly. Like late game in normal EQ you would see Pallys and stuff pulling half a zone in one go because they had raid gear. But a Mage/Necro even with the best raid gear couldn't do anything close to that because the pet was still just the basic ***** it was when you first got the spell. But with the THJ pet bag you could load up the pet with raid gear and it could actually tank like a real player or dps like a real player. They boosted its aggro a lot too on THJ so it was really good at tanking. Without stuff like that I have little interest in EQL. I think they chickened out of having the solo power fantasy gameplay THJ had because maybe it would destroy real EQ once people got a taste for it.

Instead it sounds like a middle ground. It's still basically EQ but slightly boosted characters so you can do more. And reduced group and raid requirements so you can do group content with 4 people instead of 6, and raid content with 8 instead of 54. I think it is inspired more by the lack of players in real EQ than it is trying to make a soloable version of EQ. I will probably have to see it for myself to decide. My biggest fear is the cost of it all. Grind forever or pay for xp potions etc. Also I ****** up the last time I played EQ because I was multiboxing a group of 6 so bought the latest expansion pack 6 times and 6 subscriptions to remove the AA cap from them all. Then I got bored with it about a week later and never went back. Big waste of about $300.

[Xenich]

From what I understand, pets will be able to wear player gear (EQ Legends FAQ). So I don't think that is going to be drastically different.


The thing to think about is that since they are tuning the game for 4 man groups and 8 man raids, it means the chances of doing it with fewer people will be likely if you are a skilled player with other skilled players. Being that the game is being marketed to casuals, don't be surprised if you hear group encounters being solo'd and raids being done duo/trio. It was the same in EQ. There were a lot of encounters people did with large group sizes they didn't need if they applied tactics over zerging. In many ways, this is encouraging to me because it gives an element of challenge that is possible in play as opposed to some MMOs where encounters are gated by mechanics that force additional people because they don't want people to do it with less. You could very well end up enjoying a solo game play for a lot of the game and only needing a couple of people for the rest.

In the end, I find this far better than playing modern EQ because of the lesser group sizes. I don't like playing with people I don't know (I will, but usually avoid it because most people are pains in the *** and I already did that years ago and am done with the drama).

As I have said, for me... it is the progression that is key here. If the level speed/AA access etc... is too easy and you are able to blow through the content, it will be nothing more than a cheap thrill that won't last for people like me. Sure, there will be the meta gamers constantly trying to "build the better combo", but even that will fade eventually. It is the progression pace and challenge to it that is important for long term meaningful game play and if it doesn't have it, its just another modern MMO among many.

[Finarfin]

Sounds nice. I was never a big fan of the whole 24-32 player raids in mmos. Dungeons and such should be 3 players and raids maybe 5-6. (Chrono Odyssey does it like that, though the numbers might be different)

[Xenich]

Sounds nice. I was never a big fan of the whole 24-32 player raids in mmos. Dungeons and such should be 3 players and raids maybe 5-6. (Chrono Odyssey does it like that, though the numbers might be different)

Yeah, I prefer small group content as well. I don't like some of the modernization of EQ over the years, I think it dumbs down the game and makes people lazy (ie auto grant spells) which are apparently up to level 20 if you go by AI response on this feature in EQ legends. At least it stops at 20 and so won't be a conflict with later "dropped" spells that come from the expansions. I think it is important to have items, spells, etc... placed all over different cities and trainers. It forces the player to move out, explore and plan for their progression which used to be a big part of the learning in release EQ, but... they are catering to modern players who are not used to that. It is unfortunate. Sure... it is an "old fart" gripe, but honestly... it is one among many things that while "mundane" are important for world play development IMO.

[Xenich]

So, it is legal of the NDA to say you are in beta and you can talk about features that are present in the game, but not planned, bugs, etc... They are also beginning to allow streaming of it.

Anyway, I got in... and am currently playing... though I am hesitant to speak too much in detail about it. It is interesting though, similar to THJ in many ways, but also different as well. All I can say is that it is not exactly EQ, while still being EQ. There are some nice things about it, a lot of QoL (much of which you have seen in Project Quarm and THJ). I think @Kalarion mentioned something about these "focuses" of EQ Emu games being more like Diablo, and well.. I can't disagree with that. The game certainly focuses heavily on loot upgrading.

You all know how I feel about EQ, I would say this is not EQ, much like how I said THJ wasn't really EQ because it was missing all of the subtle aspects of play I find important. That said, many of you dislike the things I like, so may find this concept... enjoyable. It is fun, and you certainly can find yourself into an obsessive grind while playing, probably a lot more than even THJ provided being that you have a bit more freedom to swap out classes.

The only thing I can say is that if you liked THJ, you would probably enjoy this.. (contingently).

Anyway, if any of you are in it, let me know... we can play through some stuff if you like.

[Finarfin]

So when is it available for everyone? Because I sure as **** didn't get an invite, even though I registered as soon as it was possible

[Xenich]

So when is it available for everyone? Because I sure as **** didn't get an invite, even though I registered as soon as it was possible

They keep doing "beta" invite iterations, so there is a chance you could eventually get in. As for "when", I am not entirely sure, but if I had to "guess" (and this is strictly an assumption on my part because I don't read the discord heavily or the like), I would say it could be out this year sometime if I had to guess (again, pure "pull out of my *** guessery". I have no idea though, but the game is working well and fully featured for the most part with constant additions and progress being made.

Based on what I experienced, I think a lot of "middle of the roaders" and even "mainstreamers" are likely to find interest in it. It is very "approachable" from that perspective, I mean... as much as EQ can actually be. In terms of tech, interface works quite well, and I run the game in triple screen 7830x1440 and it looks great.

[Xenich]

https://www.youtube.com/@MoProduktions/videos

They lifted the NDA a bit, streamers are allowed to provide information. So if you were interested in how EQ Legends is playing out versus THJ style and traditional EQ, there is some good information in there.