Monsters & Memories

[Tweed]

Games shouldn't be fun every second you are playing them, but the unfun parts need to make the fun parts more fun. I don't get that from the vendor system in MnM

Imagine how most people feel about sitting in one spot killing an enemy that respawns!

I don't like that aspect either. LDoN drew me back into EQ for quite awhile and it was a load of fun and something I'd been wanting from the very beginning.

Suffice to say that I don't I like this kind of game anymore. I don't want to sit in one place for hours and hours staring at the wall and killing stuff or wandering around in the dark or going on 3 hour corpse runs only to get sniped because my invis dropped trying to reach the blue zone so I can die and lose more xp. Or sitting LFG for hours on end. Or getting the named KS'd from me or going LD at the wrong moment or a dozen other frustrating things I've already endured hundreds upon hundreds of times before. Trying this again during the last test cemented that and I still think it's amazing that they've managed to take all the absolute worst parts of EQ and turn them into a game that people are dying to play.

[Xenich]

I really hated LDON, it turned the game into a gimmick of fast run for "tokens" type play which I despised about later WoW. I don't mind instances, I think DoN was a good expansion on many levels with more instanced based play, but in EQ style flavor (though it also excessively pushed that "cycle" based instance run behavior which I disliked). That is why I think THJ did well, it kept the EQ style, but implemented instancing without all the gimmicks in play.

To each their own though, but I enjoy old EQ style and there are a fair amount of people who do. I am not saying I like every aspect of the negatives contested content without instances and the like brings, but in terms of the risk vs rewards, absolutely... it is nice to actually have real risk in play rather than the game feeling like a respawn cycle of fast paced token collecting gimmicks. MMOs these days aren't worlds, they are just large open spaces to run around in while you are waiting for daily timers to expire.

[Olivine]

I played the M&M weekend playtest at the end of March and lasted around 15 minutes. Spawned into this Endor looking ewok wood elf area and the game ran like ****, the UI was miniscule on 1080p and when I rescaled it a bunch of stuff overlapped or ended up outside the screen. None of the abilities in my spellbook had any tooltips and when I accidentally fatfingered Q while targetting an NPC it ran up to me and oneshot me. Made a new character and found a UI prompt to open a web address to the New Player Guide which is just a giant document of basic game mechanics that doesn't actually teach you anything.

No wonder EQ got plastered by vanilla wow because wow had in-game tutorials in 2004 but a bunch of dudes making what's basically Everquest 2026 don't have anything close to tutorials when they're 2 months before launch.

► Show Spoiler

Also first post!

[Kalarion]

I played the M&M weekend playtest at the end of March and lasted around 15 minutes. Spawned into this Endor looking ewok wood elf area and the game ran like ****, the UI was miniscule on 1080p and when I rescaled it a bunch of stuff overlapped or ended up outside the screen. None of the abilities in my spellbook had any tooltips and when I accidentally fatfingered Q while targetting an NPC it ran up to me and oneshot me. Made a new character and found a UI prompt to open a web address to the New Player Guide which is just a giant document of basic game mechanics that doesn't actually teach you anything.

No wonder EQ got plastered by vanilla wow because wow had in-game tutorials in 2004 but a bunch of dudes making what's basically Everquest 2026 don't have anything close to tutorials when they're 2 months before launch.

► Show Spoiler

Also first post!

******** without being either enraging or entertaining. This is really milquetoast stuff. You should leave.

[Xenich]

I played the M&M weekend playtest at the end of March and lasted around 15 minutes. Spawned into this Endor looking ewok wood elf area and the game ran like ****, the UI was miniscule on 1080p and when I rescaled it a bunch of stuff overlapped or ended up outside the screen. None of the abilities in my spellbook had any tooltips and when I accidentally fatfingered Q while targetting an NPC it ran up to me and oneshot me. Made a new character and found a UI prompt to open a web address to the New Player Guide which is just a giant document of basic game mechanics that doesn't actually teach you anything.

No wonder EQ got plastered by vanilla wow because wow had in-game tutorials in 2004 but a bunch of dudes making what's basically Everquest 2026 don't have anything close to tutorials when they're 2 months before launch.

► Show Spoiler

Also first post!

Well, in EQ's defense, the game wasn't designed for people who have attention deficiencies and the IQ of their shoe size.

[rusty_shackleford]

I played the M&M weekend playtest at the end of March and lasted around 15 minutes. Spawned into this Endor looking ewok wood elf area and the game ran like ****, the UI was miniscule on 1080p and when I rescaled it a bunch of stuff overlapped or ended up outside the screen. None of the abilities in my spellbook had any tooltips and when I accidentally fatfingered Q while targetting an NPC it ran up to me and oneshot me. Made a new character and found a UI prompt to open a web address to the New Player Guide which is just a giant document of basic game mechanics that doesn't actually teach you anything.

No wonder EQ got plastered by vanilla wow because wow had in-game tutorials in 2004 but a bunch of dudes making what's basically Everquest 2026 don't have anything close to tutorials when they're 2 months before launch.

► Show Spoiler

Also first post!

They're going to try to convince you otherwise but this game is just the worst parts of EQ dialed up

[Xenich]

I played the M&M weekend playtest at the end of March and lasted around 15 minutes. Spawned into this Endor looking ewok wood elf area and the game ran like ****, the UI was miniscule on 1080p and when I rescaled it a bunch of stuff overlapped or ended up outside the screen. None of the abilities in my spellbook had any tooltips and when I accidentally fatfingered Q while targetting an NPC it ran up to me and oneshot me. Made a new character and found a UI prompt to open a web address to the New Player Guide which is just a giant document of basic game mechanics that doesn't actually teach you anything.

No wonder EQ got plastered by vanilla wow because wow had in-game tutorials in 2004 but a bunch of dudes making what's basically Everquest 2026 don't have anything close to tutorials when they're 2 months before launch.

► Show Spoiler

Also first post!

They're going to try to convince you otherwise but this game is just the worst parts of EQ dialed up

Why would we want to convince him?

[GhostCow]

MnM isn't perfect but if my choices are EQ or WoW I'm picking EQ every time. Maybe something more like DaoC with most of the flaws fixed would be a better middle ground.

[Olivine]

There is a reason the green line on this chart goes up so high so quickly because the game representing the green line in question had proper in-game tutorials, UI that scaled properly and tooltips that weren'tt just the spell name. It didn't have stupid **** like being able to aggro vendor NPCs or having UI that didn't function properly.

I'm more than happy to give M&M a second chance if there's ever another free test weekend or other play session but expecting people to pay a monthly sub for this is ******* ********. I'd rather go and play another nochanges 1.12 for the next 2 years than suffer through M&M deliberate obscurity and friction just because its "old school" and "soulful".

[asf]

i enrolled for pvp server, even had chatgpt generate a cover letter for me

[GhostCow]

There is a reason the green line on this chart goes up so high so quickly because the game representing the green line in question had proper in-game tutorials, UI that scaled properly and tooltips that weren'tt just the spell name. It didn't have stupid **** like being able to aggro vendor NPCs or having UI that didn't function properly.

I'm more than happy to give M&M a second chance if there's ever another free test weekend or other play session but expecting people to pay a monthly sub for this is ******* ********. I'd rather go and play another nochanges 1.12 for the next 2 years than suffer through M&M deliberate obscurity and friction just because its "old school" and "soulful".

Actually I think it's because people recognized the Warcraft name which caused a bunch of FOMO and people playing an MMO for the first time.

[rusty_shackleford]

It's because it's the first MMO that didn't feel like you were playing a game that took half a second to respond to your input.
The input prediction/lag compensation was bleeding edge stuff at the time, along with the combat just feeling smooth.

[Olivine]

Actually I think it's because people recognized the Warcraft name which caused a bunch of FOMO and people playing an MMO for the first time.

No it's because WoW was just a better game than it's competition not some funky situation where 10mil+ people weren't playing MMO: Everquest because they were waiting for MMO: Warcraft. Even on the 700k max subs graph you can clearly see other MMOs losing subscribers while WoW is trending upwards.


I've browsed M&M's community hub for a bit and there's entire sections on... not taking other people's mob tags because they got their first.


Getting banned because you were the first person to hit a mob is ******* ******** and does nothing but encourage huge zergs to swallow up all available mob spawns. It shouldn't need to be stated how terrible of an idea this is when instead the game could just be designed around not needing to have rules like this stated.

The funniest part is at the end of the policy page. "Will me and my buddies camping a mob 24/7 make the game more fun for everyone? Very unlikely but the rules say we can so get ******."

[rusty_shackleford]

Getting punished for training mobs is so incredibly gay and lame

[GhostCow]

Maybe I was just too burned out from all the MMOs that came before it, but I played WoW close to release and didn't have anything good to say about it. I hated the art style and I still hate the themepark type design to this day.

[Kalarion]

I'm more than happy to give M&M a second chance if there's ever another free test weekend or other play session...

Don't bother. We've had enough of the bellyaching of people like you, you should leave. Just stick to WoW and its infinite clones.

---

It's because it's the first MMO that didn't feel like you were playing a game that took half a second to respond to your input.
The input prediction/lag compensation was bleeding edge stuff at the time, along with the combat just feeling smooth.

Correct as far as it goes, but there was more to it. Everything was made more accessible from EQ and its competitors. Quests were clearly denoted and popped up a special window, rewards were clearly shown and rarely required more than one task to accomplish, the art style was a new direction and amazing for its time, there were huge, zone-spanning storylines you could follow that were intimately connected with the dungeons (so your friends got invested with you!), crafting was simple and intuitive... the list goes on. Not to mention WoW genuinely improving some aspects of gameplay, such as giving more abilities and tactical decisions to all classes, and the talent trees.

I don't at all take away from WoW and its later clones the power that came from making the game greatly accessible in comparison to previous MMOs. It's just that I'd rather have the slower, more methodical and focused group play of early EQ and MnM, and I find the old obtuseness charming and comfortable.

[rusty_shackleford]

Quests were superior to sitting in one spot and repeatedly killing a mob that respawns

[Olivine]

Getting punished for training mobs is so incredibly gay and lame

Training as in kiting a bunch of mobs like how mages in vanilla wow can do it with blizzard/CoC? I feel like it'd be much easier to design the game around mob trains not being possible instead of putting in a bunch of niggery rules lawyering lol!

Don't bother. We've had enough of the bellyaching of people like you, you should leave. Just stick to WoW and its infinite clones.

If that helps you cope at night playing the game that got raped by Tigole when he was unemployed and then also employed by Blizzard then I suggest you target it into your bloodstream instead of huffing it because it'll be more potent!

[rusty_shackleford]

The sweet spot is obviously some mix of the two but nobody will do it because the people that like EQ enough to do it also hate having fun

[GhostCow]

The sweet spot is obviously some mix of the two but nobody will do it because the people that like EQ enough to do it also hate having fun

This is why I mentioned DAoC as a middle ground. There were quests to do but you weren't following a mostly linear path endlessly going from one quest to the next. The main way to level up was still killing mobs. You were punished for staying in one spot. There were XP bonuses for running around to different areas. DAoC had a lot of other problems though and I'm not really big on RvR

[Kalarion]

If that helps you cope at night playing the game that got raped by Tigole when he was unemployed and then also employed by Blizzard then I suggest you target it into your bloodstream instead of huffing it because it'll be more potent!

This is gibberish. Rusty, I think it's time we instituted insane asylums for the board.

[rusty_shackleford]

WoW managed to inherit the single worst aspect of EQ tho(raiding)

[Olivine]

This is gibberish. Rusty, I think it's time we instituted insane asylums for the board.

If you call me mentally ill and advocate for me being put into an asylum because I don't the game that you like then you are the mentally ill one. Don't take this as me defending vanilla WoW either, collecting 10 bear asses vs killing bears is effectively the same thing but making meaningful questing is not hard.

Just take a look at a few questlines from Project Epoch. The most notable one I remember gave a funny shopping questline to Augustus in Eastern Plaguelands. He first has you killing mobs nearby to take their loot so that he can sell in his shop then he makes you craft some flyers made out of the zombie cloth (kill quest). After that he makes you go around the entire zone handing out flyers to NPCs like the high elves in the north, the Argent Dawn at Light's Hope and even the ghosts down in Darrowshire.

A short 1-2 hour questline like this doesn't take more than maybe an evening to draft up and implement but instead the Minges and & Memories devs want to snare you into walking into their mob camp so they can ban you and take your sub money (this game is 15 bucks a month btw)

Or they're just ******** boomers who think peak MMO was sitting in a cubic room killing skeletons all day and they won't accept anything different because they're assmad that Blizzard won.

[GhostCow]

WoW also gave us that awful combat most MMOs have now where it's like playing the piano. **** that ****. I want to relax and mostly use auto-attack.

[rusty_shackleford]

A turn based mmo would probably be fun.

[Kalarion]

A turn based mmo would probably be fun.

Shadows of Yserbius was great fun until Greggo got buttblasted over not being the party nuker and quit in a hissyfit of schizorage.

---

If you call me mentally ill and advocate for me being put into an asylum because I don't the game that you like then you are the mentally ill one. Don't take this as me defending vanilla WoW either, collecting 10 bear asses vs killing bears is effectively the same thing but making meaningful questing is not hard.

Just take a look at a few questlines from Project Epoch. The most notable one I remember gave a funny shopping questline to Augustus in Eastern Plaguelands. He first has you killing mobs nearby to take their loot so that he can sell in his shop then he makes you craft some flyers made out of the zombie cloth (kill quest). After that he makes you go around the entire zone handing out flyers to NPCs like the high elves in the north, the Argent Dawn at Light's Hope and even the ghosts down in Darrowshire.

A short 1-2 hour questline like this doesn't take more than maybe an evening to draft up and implement but instead the Minges and & Memories devs want to snare you into walking into their mob camp so they can ban you and take your sub money (this game is 15 bucks a month btw)

Or they're just ******** boomers who think peak MMO was sitting in a cubic room killing skeletons all day and they won't accept anything different because they're assmad that Blizzard won.

Rusty...

[rusty_shackleford]

A turn based mmo would probably be fun.

Shadows of Yserbius was great fun until Greggo got buttblasted over not being the party nuker and quit in a hissyfit of schizorage.

---

If you call me mentally ill and advocate for me being put into an asylum because I don't the game that you like then you are the mentally ill one. Don't take this as me defending vanilla WoW either, collecting 10 bear asses vs killing bears is effectively the same thing but making meaningful questing is not hard.

Just take a look at a few questlines from Project Epoch. The most notable one I remember gave a funny shopping questline to Augustus in Eastern Plaguelands. He first has you killing mobs nearby to take their loot so that he can sell in his shop then he makes you craft some flyers made out of the zombie cloth (kill quest). After that he makes you go around the entire zone handing out flyers to NPCs like the high elves in the north, the Argent Dawn at Light's Hope and even the ghosts down in Darrowshire.

A short 1-2 hour questline like this doesn't take more than maybe an evening to draft up and implement but instead the Minges and & Memories devs want to snare you into walking into their mob camp so they can ban you and take your sub money (this game is 15 bucks a month btw)

Or they're just ******** boomers who think peak MMO was sitting in a cubic room killing skeletons all day and they won't accept anything different because they're assmad that Blizzard won.

Rusty...

He's right

Star Trek Online & DDO are probably the best across the genre in terms of quests.

[Olivine]

WoW also gave us that awful combat most MMOs have now where it's like playing the piano. **** that ****. I want to relax and mostly use auto-attack.

A turn based mmo would probably be fun.

I'd play an MMO with TERA's combat and a mix of vanilla and tbc/wrath wow questing. I'd even forgive Elins not making the cut if the game was good.

[GhostCow]

Mortal Online 2 actually had the best combat I've experienced in an MMO. It had action combat similar to Mount & Blade. Too bad everything else about the game was dogshit

[Oyster Sauce]

There is a reason the green line on this chart goes up so high so quickly because the game representing the green line in question had proper in-game tutorials, UI that scaled properly and tooltips that weren'tt just the spell name. It didn't have stupid **** like being able to aggro vendor NPCs or having UI that didn't function properly.

I'm more than happy to give M&M a second chance if there's ever another free test weekend or other play session but expecting people to pay a monthly sub for this is ******* ********. I'd rather go and play another nochanges 1.12 for the next 2 years than suffer through M&M deliberate obscurity and friction just because its "old school" and "soulful".

It's because it played well. There is no other MMO that compares to the sheer joy of controlling a World of Warcraft character. Even modern competitors are **** from ***.