Junior Adventurer's Guild - November: Dragon Age: Origins

[logincrash]

Yeah, for Cousland especially, since Duncan coerces you into joining the Grey Wardens at the very beginning. Being able to tell the Wardens to **** off because you've done your duty and you still have a family to rebuild and a country to rule would've been perfect. Alas.

I never really though about it that much but it is massively ******** that Duncan forcibly conscripts one of the last surviving members of one of the kingdom's oldest houses. Almost overnight the kingdom would have lost it's King and as far as they would've known the entirety of the Cousland and Theirin bloodlines. It'd be mass panic for the royals and general populace. Other nations would likely see this as a prime chance to invade since Ferelden would be for the taking after the darkspawn were dealt with. Duncan is kind of a tard in retrospect or perhaps just a zealot for the wardens.

To be fair, Duncan's working under the correct assumption that THE END OF THE ******* WORLD IS HERE AND WE GOTTA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP IT!
But that whole thing is kinda similar to the genophage question in ME3.

[Valter]

Yeah, for Cousland especially, since Duncan coerces you into joining the Grey Wardens at the very beginning. Being able to tell the Wardens to **** off because you've done your duty and you still have a family to rebuild and a country to rule would've been perfect. Alas.

I never really though about it that much but it is massively ******** that Duncan forcibly conscripts one of the last surviving members of one of the kingdom's oldest houses. Almost overnight the kingdom would have lost it's King and as far as they would've known the entirety of the Cousland and Theirin bloodlines. It'd be mass panic for the royals and general populace. Other nations would likely see this as a prime chance to invade since Ferelden would be for the taking after the darkspawn were dealt with. Duncan is kind of a tard in retrospect or perhaps just a zealot for the wardens.

To be fair, Duncan's working under the correct assumption that THE END OF THE ******* WORLD IS HERE AND WE GOTTA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP IT!
But that whole thing is kinda similar to the genophage question in ME3.

I mean there really wasn't much the Cousland could have done on his own now that everyone he knews was dead. Although, I still wonder if the part about finding the elder Cousland brother was some sort of cut content, it really feels like there was supposed to be a quest about that. So aside from that, joining the Wardens was likely the best option he had to gather allies.

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah, for Cousland especially, since Duncan coerces you into joining the Grey Wardens at the very beginning. Being able to tell the Wardens to **** off because you've done your duty and you still have a family to rebuild and a country to rule would've been perfect. Alas.

I never really though about it that much but it is massively ******** that Duncan forcibly conscripts one of the last surviving members of one of the kingdom's oldest houses. Almost overnight the kingdom would have lost it's King and as far as they would've known the entirety of the Cousland and Theirin bloodlines. It'd be mass panic for the royals and general populace. Other nations would likely see this as a prime chance to invade since Ferelden would be for the taking after the darkspawn were dealt with. Duncan is kind of a tard in retrospect or perhaps just a zealot for the wardens.

Because Loghain was the de facto ruler, none of this mattered. There was very little confidence in the king and he wasn't particularly liked by the people, whereas Loghain was a great hero.

[logincrash]

I never really though about it that much but it is massively ******** that Duncan forcibly conscripts one of the last surviving members of one of the kingdom's oldest houses. Almost overnight the kingdom would have lost it's King and as far as they would've known the entirety of the Cousland and Theirin bloodlines. It'd be mass panic for the royals and general populace. Other nations would likely see this as a prime chance to invade since Ferelden would be for the taking after the darkspawn were dealt with. Duncan is kind of a tard in retrospect or perhaps just a zealot for the wardens.

To be fair, Duncan's working under the correct assumption that THE END OF THE ******* WORLD IS HERE AND WE GOTTA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP IT!
But that whole thing is kinda similar to the genophage question in ME3.

I mean there really wasn't much the Cousland could have done on his own now that everyone he knews was dead. Although, I still wonder if the part about finding the elder Cousland brother was some sort of cut content, it really feels like there was supposed to be a quest about that. So aside from that, joining the Wardens was likely the best option he had to gather allies.

Cousland wasn't alone. Couslands have vassals and what Howe has done is heinous enough that not many of the Fereldan nobility would support him if they knew the truth. Cousland making it out of the castle alive means that Howe can't control the narrative.
Sure, there's the question of the Orlesian connection (vacationing abroad and attending galas and getting gifts and ****) and how it could be used to set up Couslands as Orlesian sympathizers, but Howe betraying his liege after being invited into the castle and then trying to exterminate the entire house by killing women and children is bad enough to make anyone distrust him, at the very least.
Cousland could've made his escape, fled to the most loyal of the Cousland vassals, gathered the rest of the bannermen, sent an envoy to petition the king. Meanwhile, joining the Wardens is both dangerous and short-sighted. Even without knowing about the physical changes of the Joining, becoming a Grey Warden means becoming unable to inherit any titles. That's pretty much the same as just giving Howe the Teyrnship without a fight. And even if you ignore the whole title inheritance thing, Cousland gets ******* turned into a pin cushion at the top of the Tower of Ishal. Fighting Darkspawn isn't a walk in the park.
And my initial point with this was the fact that it sorta looks like Duncan would've stopped Cousland from leaving unless he agreed to join. Extracting an agreement from a man who's bleeding out to death isn't very cash-money of him. But, I suppose, that fits the characterization of the Grey Wardens as ruthless bastards.
As for Fergus, yes, him showing up without any fanfare at the end of the game is very lame and strange. I don't remember if he even has any dialogue. But I don't know where you would fit a mission to save him. I think the Return to Ostagar DLC was content that they had to cut before release that they then packaged as a DLC. Maybe you could've found Fergus then? Like how you can find a mabari if you missed it the first time.

[logincrash]

Also, replayed the Dwarf Noble origin. It's definitely my favourite, and by quite a margin too. The content's varied and you actually have some meaningful choices to make.
Doesn't this look just amazing?

a paragon of chadliness.jpg

I love the dwarves in this game. Orzammar is such a cool place and both origins are awesome.
Dwarf Commoner Rogue is the most fitting character if you want to do all the quests, because he has all the skills and isn't above doing mercenary work. Plus, if you invest some points into Stealing, it's not out of character to pickpocket literally every NPC you see. And Dwarf Commoner is probably the one origin character who gets the best deal out of all of them. A real "from rags to riches" story.
Human Noble probably suffers the most, even if you count City Elf.
Mage would've been so much cooler if not for Jowan and his insufferable faggotry - starting in the Fade, playing riddles with demons, dueling with spirits - it's kino. But then you have to deal with that whiny ****.
And Dalish Elf feels like an afterthought. It's short and lame, even if it does make for a really wholesome Morrigan romance. Also, there's no ******* way all that elf wewuzery from the sequels was intended from the start, considering how anemic the Dalish origin is.

[Valter]

Mage would've been so much cooler if not for Jowan and his insufferable faggotry - starting in the Fade, playing riddles with demons, dueling with spirits - it's kino. But then you have to deal with that whiny ****.

Can't you just report him?

[logincrash]

Mage would've been so much cooler if not for Jowan and his insufferable faggotry - starting in the Fade, playing riddles with demons, dueling with spirits - it's kino. But then you have to deal with that whiny ****.

Can't you just report him?

Yeah, but you still have to listen to him lie to your face in that whiny voice of his coming out of that punchable mouth while you handle the Phylactery business.

[Kolgrim]

Also, replayed the Dwarf Noble origin. It's definitely my favourite, and by quite a margin too. The content's varied and you actually have some meaningful choices to make.

Dwarf Noble feels like the chad playthrough in a way. The ultimate male fantasy done right. You can knock up a noble hunter in the origin story during a threesome and have a kid with her. Later you harden best girl Leliana and have a second threesome with Isabela. When the endgame occurs Leliana will let you impregnate (((Morrigan))) to save the world. In the epilogue your best bro Gorim says he wants to be by your side again and you ride off into the sunset being declared a paragon in Orzammar.

[logincrash]

Also, replayed the Dwarf Noble origin. It's definitely my favourite, and by quite a margin too. The content's varied and you actually have some meaningful choices to make.

Dwarf Noble feels like the chad playthrough in a way. The ultimate male fantasy done right. You can knock up a noble hunter in the origin story during a threesome and have a kid with her. Later you harden best girl Leliana and have a second threesome with Isabela. When the endgame occurs Leliana will let you impregnate (((Morrigan))) to save the world. In the epilogue your best bro Gorim says he wants to be by your side again and you ride off into the sunset being declared a paragon in Orzammar.

► Entire game spoiled in 1 image

dorf origins.png

[rusty_shackleford]

Midget

[Valter]

Also, replayed the Dwarf Noble origin. It's definitely my favourite, and by quite a margin too. The content's varied and you actually have some meaningful choices to make.

Dwarf Noble feels like the chad playthrough in a way. The ultimate male fantasy done right. You can knock up a noble hunter in the origin story during a threesome and have a kid with her. Later you harden best girl Leliana and have a second threesome with Isabela. When the endgame occurs Leliana will let you impregnate (((Morrigan))) to save the world. In the epilogue your best bro Gorim says he wants to be by your side again and you ride off into the sunset being declared a paragon in Orzammar.

► Entire game spoiled in 1 image

Dwarfbros are not okay

[Valter]

Midget

Signed, Sten.

[Valter]

It seems most origins have the promise of sweet revenge baked into them. All except the Dalish... ******* hippies (at least iirc, I've actually only played Dalish once just to see why they sucked so much)

[logincrash]

Dwarf Noble feels like the chad playthrough in a way. The ultimate male fantasy done right. You can knock up a noble hunter in the origin story during a threesome and have a kid with her. Later you harden best girl Leliana and have a second threesome with Isabela. When the endgame occurs Leliana will let you impregnate (((Morrigan))) to save the world. In the epilogue your best bro Gorim says he wants to be by your side again and you ride off into the sunset being declared a paragon in Orzammar.

► Entire game spoiled in 1 image

Dwarfbros are not okay

Nothing wrong in giving your brother-in-arms a hand to make him a better man.

[wndrbr]

Dwarf Noble feels like the chad playthrough in a way. The ultimate male fantasy done right
...
When the endgame occurs Leliana will let you impregnate (((Morrigan))) to save the world.

Morrigan's Archdemon son cursing her for making him a manlet

[logincrash]

To be fair, Duncan's working under the correct assumption that THE END OF THE ******* WORLD IS HERE AND WE GOTTA DO EVERYTHING WE CAN TO STOP IT!
But that whole thing is kinda similar to the genophage question in ME3.

I mean there really wasn't much the Cousland could have done on his own now that everyone he knews was dead. Although, I still wonder if the part about finding the elder Cousland brother was some sort of cut content, it really feels like there was supposed to be a quest about that. So aside from that, joining the Wardens was likely the best option he had to gather allies.

Cousland wasn't alone. Couslands have vassals and what Howe has done is heinous enough that not many of the Fereldan nobility would support him if they knew the truth. Cousland making it out of the castle alive means that Howe can't control the narrative.
Sure, there's the question of the Orlesian connection (vacationing abroad and attending galas and getting gifts and ****) and how it could be used to set up Couslands as Orlesian sympathizers, but Howe betraying his liege after being invited into the castle and then trying to exterminate the entire house by killing women and children is bad enough to make anyone distrust him, at the very least.
Cousland could've made his escape, fled to the most loyal of the Cousland vassals, gathered the rest of the bannermen, sent an envoy to petition the king. Meanwhile, joining the Wardens is both dangerous and short-sighted. Even without knowing about the physical changes of the Joining, becoming a Grey Warden means becoming unable to inherit any titles. That's pretty much the same as just giving Howe the Teyrnship without a fight. And even if you ignore the whole title inheritance thing, Cousland gets ******* turned into a pin cushion at the top of the Tower of Ishal. Fighting Darkspawn isn't a walk in the park.
And my initial point with this was the fact that it sorta looks like Duncan would've stopped Cousland from leaving unless he agreed to join. Extracting an agreement from a man who's bleeding out to death isn't very cash-money of him. But, I suppose, that fits the characterization of the Grey Wardens as ruthless bastards.
As for Fergus, yes, him showing up without any fanfare at the end of the game is very lame and strange. I don't remember if he even has any dialogue. But I don't know where you would fit a mission to save him. I think the Return to Ostagar DLC was content that they had to cut before release that they then packaged as a DLC. Maybe you could've found Fergus then? Like how you can find a mabari if you missed it the first time.

@Kalarion, which part do you disagree with? Go in-depth, I love discussing DAO.

[Kalarion]

The ingame explanation was that Loghain is a war hero whose popularity with the Fereldan populace is overshadowed only by king Maric himself, and the people wouldn't like him or his daughter being ousted, to say the least. Do you find this claim to be exaggerated or the threat of popular discontent unrealistic?

By the time the question of kingship comes up I think it would be unquestionable that the Cousland would be just as, if not more, popular than Loghain. He's "saving the country" by losing the son of Maric in battle, while you've been wandering Ferelden taking a personal hand in the struggles and hardships of the people for weeks/months, and word of your exploits abroad to gather support for the current invasion ("he's bringing allies to help!") would have been everywhere as well. If anything the people would be ecstatic to have the Cousland as king by the conclusion of the trial. Add to that he's the last scion of a respected House that has a reputation for loyalty and honor. If the Cousland was allowed to be played as a true Charlemagne, crushing Anora's machinations would be child's play, and defeating Loghain at the trial would put an end to his aspirations for kingship.

The question of Grey Warden inheritance is more delicate. I think the Cousland could swing it by playing himself as custodian of the kingship, keeping the throne secure for either the return of Maric's line, or a new conclave after the invasion is finished and the Orlesian question is firmly dealt with. Yes it would be an exception, but the events of Origins are the stuff exceptions are made of. How many have you already made (to popular acclaim) throughout Ferelden by that point anyways? Call him Cinncinatus or Caesar, he could get away with it.

[logincrash]

The question of Grey Warden inheritance is more delicate. I think the Cousland could swing it by playing himself as custodian of the kingship, keeping the throne secure for either the return of Maric's line, or a new conclave after the invasion is finished and the Orlesian question is firmly dealt with. Yes it would be an exception, but the events of Origins are the stuff exceptions are made of. How many have you already made (to popular acclaim) throughout Ferelden by that point anyways? Call him Cinncinatus or Caesar, he could get away with it.

Isn't Alistair the last of the Theirins? Or are you talking about stuff like cousins descended from the Theirin line but under other noble names?
And what do you mean by "an exception?" An exception to what? An exception to the fact that Grey Wardens are barred from holding noble titles?
I do agree that Cousland would have enough political power to tell the Grey Wardens that he's done his duty after killing the Archdemon and that he doesn't have to do anything for them anymore. But BioWare didn't put that much thought into it, sadly.

[J1M]

They added a silly loophole to a more important rule of the setting that involved having sex with a witch. They could have done something like that for these questions of lineage too if they wanted to.

[logincrash]

They added a silly loophole to a more important rule of the setting that involved having sex with a witch. They could have done something like that for these questions of lineage too if they wanted to.

Speaking of, there's no way in hell the Tevinter Grey Wardens haven't cracked a new and improved version of the Joining that doesn't curse you with a 30 year time limit and infertility, considering that one nerd stuck in a Fereldan tower for a few centuries managed to cobble something together. And they had hundreds of years AND hundreds of thousands of slaves to waste in blood magic rituals to figure this **** out.

[Kalarion]

Isn't Alistair the last of the Theirins? Or are you talking about stuff like cousins descended from the Theirin line but under other noble names?
And what do you mean by "an exception?" An exception to what? An exception to the fact that Grey Wardens are barred from holding noble titles?
I do agree that Cousland would have enough political power to tell the Grey Wardens that he's done his duty after killing the Archdemon and that he doesn't have to do anything for them anymore. But BioWare didn't put that much thought into it, sadly.

He is, but in the case we're talking about here, he doesn't want to be king, so keeping him out of the line shouldn't be a problem. Finding some mythical offshoot of the Theirin line is one hope, but there's the other of a new, voluntary conclave as well (where the Cousland would pledge to abide by the results)... say, twenty years in the future. Again, the predicate here would be the stabilizing of Ferelden in the wake of the disastrous aftermath of the twin shockwaves of the Blight and the loss of their brand-new dynastic heir.

If I were the Cousland, I wouldn't spin the Grey Warden titleship question that way. Rather I'd spin it as, "I have a more pressing duty in Ferelden now that the Archdemon is defeated, I'll come back to being a Grey Warden once Ferelden is secure", or something along those lines. Give a lifeline—even if it's a fig leaf—of compromise rather than bare fiat. In my mind, the prohibition against Grey Warden titles is much more firmly established everywhere and has mythological overtones, so you'd want to play it a little more delicately than, "**** off I'm done with you."

EDIT: I have to learn to stop repeating myself in the same sentence.

[DrSneed]

They added a silly loophole to a more important rule of the setting that involved having sex with a witch. They could have done something like that for these questions of lineage too if they wanted to.

Speaking of, there's no way in hell the Tevinter Grey Wardens haven't cracked a new and improved version of the Joining that doesn't curse you with a 30 year time limit and infertility, considering that one nerd stuck in a Fereldan tower for a few centuries managed to cobble something together. And they had hundreds of years AND hundreds of thousands of slaves to waste in blood magic rituals to figure this **** out.

why would they want that doebeit

[logincrash]

EDIT: I have to learn to stop repeating myself in the same sentence.

Welcome to the Redundancy Department of Redundancy.

[logincrash]

They added a silly loophole to a more important rule of the setting that involved having sex with a witch. They could have done something like that for these questions of lineage too if they wanted to.

Speaking of, there's no way in hell the Tevinter Grey Wardens haven't cracked a new and improved version of the Joining that doesn't curse you with a 30 year time limit and infertility, considering that one nerd stuck in a Fereldan tower for a few centuries managed to cobble something together. And they had hundreds of years AND hundreds of thousands of slaves to waste in blood magic rituals to figure this **** out.

why would they want that doebeit

Why would they want to live longer and be able to have kids? Are you serious?

[DrSneed]

Why would the rulers of Tevinter want the grey wardens to be more powerful than they already are

[Oyster Sauce]

Now that you've undertaken The Joining, I'm afraid I have to tell you something... you're going to die at the young age of 60

[logincrash]

Why would the rulers of Tevinter want the grey wardens to be more powerful than they already are

I didn't say the rulers of Tevinter, I said the Tevinter Grey Wardens. The Warden-Commander of the Tevinter Grey Wardens isn't gonna be some powerless nobody with no connections. He's going to have a vested interest in saving his own life at the very least. And Tevinter is at the forefront of blood magic studies. There's bound to be plenty of blood mages who would want to work on the Grey Warden Joining just out of academic curiosity alone.

[DrSneed]

Why would the rulers of Tevinter want the grey wardens to be more powerful than they already are

I didn't say the rulers of Tevinter, I said the Tevinter Grey Wardens. The Warden-Commander of the Tevinter Grey Wardens isn't gonna be some powerless nobody with no connections. He's going to have a vested interest in saving his own life at the very least. And Tevinter is at the forefront of blood magic studies. There's bound to be plenty of blood mages who would want to work on the Grey Warden Joining just out of academic curiosity alone.

Ya I somehow glossed over grey wardens when I read your post the first time, but the Tevinter nobles would definitely have spies in the wardens to try sabotage that kind of research.

[logincrash]

Why would the rulers of Tevinter want the grey wardens to be more powerful than they already are

I didn't say the rulers of Tevinter, I said the Tevinter Grey Wardens. The Warden-Commander of the Tevinter Grey Wardens isn't gonna be some powerless nobody with no connections. He's going to have a vested interest in saving his own life at the very least. And Tevinter is at the forefront of blood magic studies. There's bound to be plenty of blood mages who would want to work on the Grey Warden Joining just out of academic curiosity alone.

Ya I somehow glossed over grey wardens when I read your post the first time, but the Tevinter nobles would definitely have spies in the wardens to try sabotage that kind of research.

The Templar Order, which supposed to watch over mages and keep them in line, has been subverted into doing the Magisterium's bidding and is pretty much a private army of the Circle of Magi of Tevinter.
The Grey Wardens are probably in the same situation, where it's all so corrupt and incestuous that it's all basically the same giant organization teeming with self-serving power-hungry mages vying for the higher position at all times.
As for the sabotage, yeah, that par for the course. I bet the Grey Wardens have their own spies in the Tevinter government too, as would every other noble house and organization with enough influence.

[Tangerine]

giant organization teeming with self-serving power-hungry mages

Every. Single. Time. They tell you they've been locked in 109 towers, but they never tell you why.