Junior Adventurer's Guild: March - Wizardry 8

[J1M]

Was under-leveled for the Trynnie area, so backtracked to find loot and gain some levels. Just picked up a demon killing sword and bow in the upper monastery vault.

To save someone some pain: many chests roll random rewards so you won't always be able to replicate finding the same things.

[Tangerine]

It's pretty funny that the omnigun uses a Hanna-Barbera banana peel slip sound when it fires.

[Tangerine]

If you have a bard, make sure to grab the Siren's Wail in the graveyard. It has a good debuff effect.

[J1M]

If you have a bard, make sure to grab the Siren's Wail in the graveyard. It has a good debuff effect.

Do bards use stamina as a resource like the gadgeteer?

[J1M]

It's easy to see why people like Wizardry VIII more than Wizardry VI. It's quite the graphical jump. Walking around is less likely to trigger random encounters. There are side quests.

Theory of why this game has such a good reputation despite being deeply flawed:

• The game has a strong start.
• You should be successful with level 1-3 encounters with basically any party.
• The monastery you start in is one of the few proper dungeons in the game.
• The game opens up quite a bit after that, but also grinds to a halt. I suspect many people have fond memories of the first part of the game and then dropped it due to the overland travel. Thus they never experienced the crippling level scaling involving the road.
• Unlike Wizardry VI, multiclassing and foresight are not required to build decently strong characters.

Random things I liked:

• Environment variety significantly higher than Morrowind.
• The character voices you can pick from, and especially the lines written for them are significantly better than what you'd see in any Bioware-style CRPG.
• Gadgeteer was a cool class and I enjoyed collecting the invention pieces to build new spells. It allows you to exclude a rogue by covering lockpicking, initially provides combat support via a ranged weapon that can use a variety of ammo, and later becomes a sustain and AOE powerhouse due to using stamina instead of mana.
• Valkyrie was a strong class. Usually these gish characters just end up feeling like crappy fighters.
• The adventure game elements designed to sell strategy guides are a bit less prevalent than previous Wizardry games.
• Monastery and Sea Caves were enjoyable dungeon/maze areas. A couple of other areas might qualify as dungeons too but this was really lacking compared to Wizardry 6.

Random things I did not like:

• Game is too long. It has hardly any mazes or dungeons.
• Travelling on a road that you've already used takes up more game time than any other action in the game. This is due to a combination of aggressive level scaling, combat grinding to a halt when it involves many creatures, and excessive spawning of enemies. This should never have shipped, especially for a series that is known for its mazes and dungeons.
• There's not much in the way of combat variety or strategy. You put up your buffs and retreat to an obstacle of some kind if outnumbered to avoid getting surrounded.
• They put female-only items in the game, but none of them are worth using when you find them.
• Mixing sci-fi and fantasy introduces too much cognitive dissonance for me. I know some like it as nostalgia, but I think it is stupid. Along the same lines, my characters are the chosen ones, but constantly run into mosquitos that are a higher level than them. Also the 3 most powerful artifacts in the universe are just lying around one planet. Sticking to a single planet and never using a space ship really isn't getting any juice from the squeeze introduced by the sci-fi elements.
• I regretted picking a Faerie spellcaster. They need a baseline of 50% resist all to justify the drawbacks.
• Samurai red mages.

► Show Spoiler

@Oyster Sauce

[Tangerine]

They put female-only items in the game, but none of them are worth using when you find them.

Mostly true. There're some stamina recovery pendants that I've found useful for my female bard.

[Kalarion]

They put female-only items in the game, but none of them are worth using when you find them.

Incorrect for if nothing else (there's more but this is the biggest one), a single item: the Necklace of Endurance. Stamina regen makes female Bards and Gadgeteers far and away the preferred choice for both classes. It's also available early in the game.

Samurai red mages.

I don't really understand what you mean by this one. Are you referring to their casting primarily being used for buffing? That's what SAM always were in Wizardry, super-fighters who also free up needed casting for your nukers by taking care of buffs. At least to me. Although in 8 I tend to agree with the general consensus that pound-for-pound they're not really as good as a straight Fighter for melee damage, same as Lords. High Critical Strike and Flurry is a ton of fun though!

[J1M]

They put female-only items in the game, but none of them are worth using when you find them.

Incorrect for if nothing else (there's more but this is the biggest one), a single item: the Necklace of Endurance. Stamina regen makes female Bards and Gadgeteers far and away the preferred choice for both classes. It's also available early in the game.

Samurai red mages.

I don't really understand what you mean by this one. Are you referring to their casting primarily being used for buffing? That's what SAM always were in Wizardry, super-fighters who also free up needed casting for your nukers by taking care of buffs. At least to me. Although in 8 I tend to agree with the general consensus that pound-for-pound they're not really as good as a straight Fighter for melee damage, same as Lords. High Critical Strike and Flurry is a ton of fun though!

Well, I never found that item but I did buy a robe with +2 stamina eventually. It was nice for reducing the time needed to generate stamina between fights, but it didn't affect combat.

I find it weird that Wizardry sees samurai and ninja as having such an affinity for spellcasting. To the point where the enemy samurai don't really use their swords. Valkyrie makes sense for this type of gish hybrid. I'm not sure what source they are drawing from for the samurai but it feels out of place. Perhaps Final Fantasy has just been too influential on me in that regard, but I can't think of any other games where those classes are primarily spellcasters.

I'd rather see samurai have stamina abilities to do things like "dodge next incoming attack", "double damage of next strike", maybe some kind of passives around skilling up bows, spears, and swords faster, that sort of thing.

[Tangerine]

I'm not sure what source they are drawing

Asians are magic.

[Tadeusz]

Time to get the badge.

► Show Spoiler

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And then everyone fell

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Looks like a perfect month to nominate Two Worlds 2.

[Envuen]

I like how one of you went to the J.K. Rowling's school of naming characters and the other played a priest but brought a bleeding party to the end fight. Bonus for getting the "fall down before end credits" bug.

Congrats guys

[J1M]

I like how one of you went to the J.K. Rowling's school of naming characters and the other played a priest but brought a bleeding party to the end fight. Bonus for getting the "fall down before end credits" bug.

Congrats guys

I named them that way so I didn't get confused if I ended up having to multiclass them.

For next month I nominate Penny Arcade's On the Rain-Slick Precipice of Darkness 3. Created in the visual style of Final Fantasy VI, this game has an exceptionally well-designed (and challenging if you play on hard) combat system. The setup is two detectives using humor to cope with living in a world of lovecraftian horrors. Playing Rainslick 1 & 2 is not required. (Those were more akin to expensive flash games than something I would recommend.) They switched developers for Rainslick 3 to a company that specialized in making SNES-like games.

[maidenhaver]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

[Kalarion]

My sympathy for people hating on the respawns, I forgot how nasty Arnika Road is at the beginning. I compounded the pain by not taking any of my casters' spell picks (I plan to make both into Bishops, so I'm saving them for 7th level spells). Fighting bandits a level higher than me with zero debuffs available was excruciating.

At least now I'm in town, and I've picked up Myles! Time to head for Vi soon.

[Tadeusz]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

It's better to play with the game manual in the beginning, some mechanics and interactions may be missed otherwise.

[Envuen]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

Ah yeah Gregor is the wall to stand between an underleveled party and the exit to the next area.

If you want to delay this encounter to explore a little more you can manually start the combat mode, then use a move option to walk/run somewhere. As long as you stay away from the enemy and finish your movement our of his line of sight the fight will not initiate.

Optionally the big metal bridge can be moved up giving you access to a merchant, that could help.

You can change your party's formation during the fight to take low hp characters to the backline where enemies won't be able to hit them. Optionally use a Protect option to have another char cover their ***.

I compounded the pain by not taking any of my casters' spell picks

I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

[rusty_shackleford]

I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

He optimized the fun out of the game, a classic mistake by someone who has not read Rusty's Rules to RPG Enjoyment!

[Tangerine]

I forgot how nasty Arnika Road is at the beginning.

Arnika road is a pain in the *** regardless of your level. Finally got the T'Rang teleporter working so I can finally bypass it.

[maidenhaver]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

Ah yeah Gregor is the wall to stand between an underleveled party and the exit to the next area.

If you want to delay this encounter to explore a little more you can manually start the combat mode, then use a move option to walk/run somewhere. As long as you stay away from the enemy and finish your movement our of his line of sight the fight will not initiate.

Optionally the big metal bridge can be moved up giving you access to a merchant, that could help.

You can change your party's formation during the fight to take low hp characters to the backline where enemies won't be able to hit them. Optionally use a Protect option to have another char cover their ***.

I compounded the pain by not taking any of my casters' spell picks

I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

Yeah, I set my Valkyrie to protect, and that saved my Psionicist, but then my Fighter died. I was ill prepared. Had I distributed my potions, I'd have won without casualties.

[J1M]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

Ah yeah Gregor is the wall to stand between an underleveled party and the exit to the next area.

If you want to delay this encounter to explore a little more you can manually start the combat mode, then use a move option to walk/run somewhere. As long as you stay away from the enemy and finish your movement our of his line of sight the fight will not initiate.

Optionally the big metal bridge can be moved up giving you access to a merchant, that could help.

You can change your party's formation during the fight to take low hp characters to the backline where enemies won't be able to hit them. Optionally use a Protect option to have another char cover their ***.

I compounded the pain by not taking any of my casters' spell picks

I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

I think you are better off with a bard or gadgeteer casting the big spells. Easier to recover stamina than mana.

The multiclassing shuffle felt more required in Wizardry 6, but I didn't switch classes in 8.

[Envuen]

By the way do you guys know about the existence of the Retro Dungeons? There are 3 secret levels in the game that are meant to imitate early games in the Wizardry series. No npcs or natural enviorment, just a dark maze with monsters, puzzles and loot.

[Tadeusz]

By the way do you guys know about the existence of the Retro Dungeons?

Heard about it but it's more of an easter egg. Did you experience it? Is it fun?

[J1M]

By the way do you guys know about the existence of the Retro Dungeons? There are 3 secret levels in the game that are meant to imitate early games in the Wizardry series. No npcs or natural enviorment, just a dark maze with monsters, puzzles and loot.

No, because the game actively punishes exploration by making you older in real life.

[Tangerine]

I've only put an hour into my game, just lost three mens to greg to roach. I figured out how casting works, though.

Ah yeah Gregor is the wall to stand between an underleveled party and the exit to the next area.

If you want to delay this encounter to explore a little more you can manually start the combat mode, then use a move option to walk/run somewhere. As long as you stay away from the enemy and finish your movement our of his line of sight the fight will not initiate.

Optionally the big metal bridge can be moved up giving you access to a merchant, that could help.

You can change your party's formation during the fight to take low hp characters to the backline where enemies won't be able to hit them. Optionally use a Protect option to have another char cover their ***.

I compounded the pain by not taking any of my casters' spell picks

I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

I think you are better off with a bard or gadgeteer casting the big spells. Easier to recover stamina than mana.

The multiclassing shuffle felt more required in Wizardry 6, but I didn't switch classes in 8.

I have both a bard and a gadgeteer and that's been working out pretty well for me. Let's me get the most important buffs/debuffs up in a couple of turns.

[Envuen]

By the way do you guys know about the existence of the Retro Dungeons?

Heard about it but it's more of an easter egg. Did you experience it? Is it fun?

Well fun is relative here, whoever enjoyed older Wizardries will also have a good time here. For those who played only wiz8 the novelty will probably wear off within the first dungeon already. Dungeon 2 and 3 especially have plenty of confusing teleporters and one-way walls inside while the map doesn't get drawn in the radar... Also you get thrown in the middle with no way back so you gotta commit to this because once you're in you will not get out quickly. Truly oldschool experience.

[J1M]

Ah yeah Gregor is the wall to stand between an underleveled party and the exit to the next area.

If you want to delay this encounter to explore a little more you can manually start the combat mode, then use a move option to walk/run somewhere. As long as you stay away from the enemy and finish your movement our of his line of sight the fight will not initiate.

Optionally the big metal bridge can be moved up giving you access to a merchant, that could help.

You can change your party's formation during the fight to take low hp characters to the backline where enemies won't be able to hit them. Optionally use a Protect option to have another char cover their ***.



I know that people have been doing this but I will never understand it. To play the first 3/4 of the game with useless casters just so that the last 1/4 might be better when all the best spells come at once.

I think you are better off with a bard or gadgeteer casting the big spells. Easier to recover stamina than mana.

The multiclassing shuffle felt more required in Wizardry 6, but I didn't switch classes in 8.

I have both a bard and a gadgeteer and that's been working out pretty well for me. Let's me get the most important buffs/debuffs up in a couple of turns.

I didn't have a bard, but shopkeepers gave me a lot of gold for the instruments I found so the class was still helpful.

[Kalarion]

OK, I take back my temporizing about Arnika Road. I had completely forgotten how **** it is in the early game. At least in the late game I'll have two bishops who can nuke and I should have gadgets and instruments to double-up. I'm going to use some of my spell picks on next level to pick up the most efficient debuffs, this is ridiculous.

[Envuen]

OK, I take back my temporizing about Arnika Road. I had completely forgotten how **** it is in the early game.

Yea the infamous Arnika road, truly a roadblock in the early game, I believe there are letsplays on youtube that ended there because of how tiresome the game got.

I recommend Insanity, Web and Freeze spells. And also running away because nobody says we have to fight all the monsters we see.

[nepbnhurj]

In dire need of a better thread naming scheme

By the time it matters, will the juniors still be juniors?

[Tangerine]

I'm a junior at heart.