Why didn't "mon" games catch on in the west?

[rusty_shackleford]

(Referring to popularity with developers, not players)

There's relatively very few(none I can think of) western RPGs that center around the player being able to capture and/or train monsters and battle with them. I think an RPG where you battle together with your captured monsters would be cool
If it does exist, it tends to get relegated to a specific class feature rather than a main mechanic e.g., hunters in World of Warcraft as an example

Is there any reason for this? My off-hand guess is western developers considering it to be "childish", perhaps?

[GhostCow]

Because Nintendo likes to sue probably

[asf]

because it is gay

[Tweed]

Save for the fact that every other game coming out now is a creature collector.

[Tinky Winky]

Animal abusing is as nonwhite as it can get.

[Tangerine]

Maybe a little too close to ****/dog-fighting for comfort, especially with NFL ******* getting busted for it and keeping it fresh in the public conciousness.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

A lot of the Mon genre taking off in Japan has to do with how East Asians are open to cuteness. Notice how a lot of the mons are designed to be endearing. Even the Japanese game with the overall harshest artstyle, Yu-gi-oh, still has some cute and endearing creatures to latch on to.

America does not have that societal disposition to accept cute stuff. See how much people bitched about Spore's artstyle changing in development towards a softer, cuter aesthetic. See how the American covers of imported Japanese games are way edgier and try to omit the cuteness. Etc. Without that cute factor to make the mons appealing, there is much more fraction towards making a mon game and getting it accepted. When the West did make creature games like Impossible Creatures, they leaned towards realistic designs in which the creatures were not endearing and thus the player viewed the creatures as mass cannon fodder rather than as something they were invested in.

[Tweed]

There seems to be about a decade's worth of lag from the time when a console-centric or exclusive genre reaches the PC market in the form of an indie game and from there a handful of years from the time the original killer app hits and the endless wave of clones appear.

Harvest Moon (1996) - Stardew Valley (2016)
Pokemon (1997) - Monster Sanctuary (2020)

The farm sim genre is now bloated beyond belief with clones and also-rans. The creature collector genre is filling up fast.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It should also be noted that the West generally doesn't seem to care about the fantasy of controlling large powerful cool monsters. Loads of Eastern RPGs have cool big monster summons on your side, but you don't see a lot of that in WRPGs.

[rusty_shackleford]

Monster Sanctuary (2020)

no idea what I'm looking at here

[Lich]

If I remember correctly, the idea behind creature cards in pre-Weatherlight Magic was summoning willing servants or beings under enslaving magic, though the enslaving process isn't depicted in the game. Western fantasy games generally treat summons as simplified companions with fewer stats and skills than party members, so they abstract pet growth in favor of party customization.

[jdcp]

Is there any reason for this? My off-hand guess is western developers considering it to be "childish", perhaps?

Maybe because everyone that tried it back at home failed: Atlus, Bandai, that Yokai ****, Enix, Namco, long long etc.

Nobody could make Pokemon flinch, and business tends to stick to what they do best so trying out the new mon trend was probably too risky, by the time it was clear it was here to stay it was too late to make a competitor.

I doubt the childish part, considering we've done worse ****:

► Show Spoiler

And that's just one of em

It's an interesting case because we did try to copy the japs in their game, failing miserably:

► Show Spoiler

But I guess Pokemon was just it's own nature freak, I mean Enix did the same thing much before them yet they could never replicate the same success even after being shown how to.

That doesn't mean the creation of Mon games is not arousing for western audiences, let's not forget most Pokemon fangames are indeed western.

There's relatively very few(none I can think of) western RPGs that center around the player being able to capture and/or train monsters and battle with them. I think an RPG where you battle together with your captured monsters would be cool
If it does exist, it tends to get relegated to a specific class feature rather than a main mechanic e.g., hunters in World of Warcraft as an example

None really otherwise we would've heard of it already, though the idea has been explored in many games, not a single one does center around it. At best there is Creatures, but that's just the training a monster part, in the literal sense.

I wonder if they were inspired by Pokemon in the "raise your own monsters!" deal, but I doubt it, specially given it came a year later and it's a completely different beast.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

let's not forget most Pokemon fangames are indeed western.

That in part has to do with how litigious Nintendo is and how they have the home field advantage in Japan. The modding and fangame scene is nowhere near as large in Japan as overseas.

[Kalarion]

It should also be noted that the West generally doesn't seem to care about the fantasy of controlling large powerful cool monsters. Loads of Eastern RPGs have cool big monster summons on your side, but you don't see a lot of that in WRPGs.

Too much dissonance between what we're seeing on the screen and what's actually happening in the game. The closest I can recall a game coming to having summons actually be as impactful to a battle as they looked was FF VII, and there it ran into the problem of massive timewaster cutscenes to do them justice; the bahamuts took 30+ seconds each (Zero was atrocious), and Knights of Round was infamously close to 2 minutes.

[Kolgrim]

Because Nintendo likes to sue probably

I honestly think it's just this. The Japs are worse then **** when it comes to suing people over intellectual property which is ironic in Pokemon's case because they ripped off Shin Megami Tensei.

[Roguey]

Jeff Vogel's Geneforge. Didn't care too much for it myself.

[methoxetamine]

It should also be noted that the West generally doesn't seem to care about the fantasy of controlling large powerful cool monsters. Loads of Eastern RPGs have cool big monster summons on your side, but you don't see a lot of that in WRPGs.

Too much dissonance between what we're seeing on the screen and what's actually happening in the game. The closest I can recall a game coming to having summons actually be as impactful to a battle as they looked was FF VII, and there it ran into the problem of massive timewaster cutscenes to do them justice; the bahamuts took 30+ seconds each (Zero was atrocious), and Knights of Round was infamously close to 2 minutes.

Watching the full KotR summon builds character, imagine a zoomie trying to sit through it

[Tadeusz]

There's ZanZarah but yeah, not much games of this genre in the West.

A lot of the Mon genre taking off in Japan has to do with how East Asians are open to cuteness.

True though some designs in ZanZarah are pretty metal. Cuteness is optional.

[rusty_shackleford]

man now I want a stardew valley game except I collect monsters

[Tweed]

man now I want a stardew valley game except I collect monsters

I'm sure several are in production, but they'll all be deckbuilders besides.

[Kalarion]

Watching the full KotR summon builds character, imagine a zoomie trying to sit through it

Agreed, once. Maybe even ten times. But when one of the legitimate strategies for beating Emerald WEAPON is chain summoning KOTR through a doublecaster followed by a party of mimics...

man now I want a stardew valley game except I collect monsters

You reminded me, there's the Siralim series, combination roguelike and moncatcher:

[methoxetamine]

Watching the full KotR summon builds character, imagine a zoomie trying to sit through it

Agreed, once. Maybe even ten times. But when one of the legitimate strategies for beating Emerald WEAPON is chain summoning KOTR through a doublecaster followed by a party of mimics...

man now I want a stardew valley game except I collect monsters

You reminded me, there's the Siralim series, combination roguelike and moncatcher:

For me, it's 7777 to beat Emerald. Though the 7777 animations probably take just as long

[TKVNC]

White Europeans hunt alongside their animals. Rarely, do they hunt for us. Dogs assist the hunt, as do birds. It's not something that makes sense to us, but it possibly has some basis in Confucianism.

[Acrux]

man now I want a stardew valley game except I collect monsters

It exists

[GhostCow]

I just want a nice turn based RPG that rips off pokemon and isn't ****. I liked pokemon up until around black and white. It's been **** for a long time.

[Oyster Sauce]

I just want a nice turn based RPG that rips off pokemon and isn't ****. I liked pokemon up until around black and white. It's been **** for a long time.

Look into romhacks. Pokemon Unbound was alright.

[methoxetamine]

I just want a nice turn based RPG that rips off pokemon and isn't ****. I liked pokemon up until around black and white. It's been **** for a long time.

Monster Girl Quest Paradox, unironically.

or play SMT

[GhostCow]

I just want a nice turn based RPG that rips off pokemon and isn't ****. I liked pokemon up until around black and white. It's been **** for a long time.

Monster Girl Quest Paradox, unironically.

or play SMT

I've already played all the SMT games. It's not really quite the same thing. I always thought it would be cool if SMT completely ripped off pokemon and made it for teenagers though. Imagine Red and Blue but with 3d graphics and demons.

[Norfleet]

There's relatively very few(none I can think of) western RPGs that center around the player being able to capture and/or train monsters and battle with them. I think an RPG where you battle together with your captured monsters would be cool

Because animal fighting has been so thoroughly outlawed and suppressed in the public eye that children have no exposure to it and therefore see no reason to make a virtual cartoon version of it when they grow up. Meanwhile, dogfighting is still legal in most of Japan and famblies can go out and watch a dogfight, so children can see that and desire to play such a game and grow up to want to make such a game.

[jdcp]

True though some designs in ZanZarah are pretty metal. Cuteness is optional.

**** cuteness this **** is amazing.

Because animal fighting has been so thoroughly outlawed and suppressed in the public eye that children have no exposure to it and therefore see no reason to make a virtual cartoon version of it when they grow up. Meanwhile, dogfighting is still legal in most of Japan and famblies can go out and watch a dogfight, so children can see that and desire to play such a game and grow up to want to make such a game.

Didn't one of the pokemon creators admit pitting his own insect pets with each other when he was a kid?

Doubt that's the reason but you do have a point