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Games in which the protagonist becomes hated and faces the repercussions for his adventurism?

For discussing role-playing video games, you know, the ones with combat.
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Games in which the protagonist becomes hated and faces the repercussions for his adventurism?

Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

One thing I find preposterous about RPGs is that often times the hero will have wound up killing dozens, hundreds, maybe even thousands of people on his journey. This is especially conspicuous in any RPGs where you can participate in a war like Suikoden, Fire Emblem, Mount & Blade, Skyrim, Final Fantasy XIV, Trails of Cold Steel, The Banner Saga, etc. By the end you will have become a high profile war hero who will have totally annihilated several enemy armies and led the conquest of several cities and even entire countries. There should be hundreds or thousands of people of whom you have killed their brother, father, son, husband, friend, etc. A lot of people would likely have become impoverished because you killed their breadwinner, or their lands were taken away by the conquest, etc. With you being such a high profile person, you should be at extreme risk of someone (if not several different people) coming to kill you to avenge their loved ones and their country.

The protagonist getting repaid for what he did to others seems to happen much more often in novels, and sometimes shows:
  • In Gen Er's famous Xianxia novel Renegade Immortal, the protagonist goes on an adventure, and then in what seems like an ending, he has a family and settles down. Then someone he had wronged comes in and massacres his family, kicking off the second half of the story. This became a very influential plot point for Chinese fiction and a lot of popular stories written after have it.
  • Gundam SEED Destiny, the sequel to Gundam SEED, is about Shinn, the lone surviving son of a family that Kira killed halfway through the first season. He remembers Kira's distinctive mech, and became enraged when he saw how Kira became a celebrated hero at the end of the first show. Shinn joins the empire that is the adversary to Kira and trains to become a mech pilot intending to kill Kira and avenge his family. Oddly, this story was unpopular in Japan (because Kira Yamato is one of THE most popular characters in Japan, to the point that he got banned from popularity polls because he kept topping them), but was very well liked by Americans for how realistic it was (this came out when people were souring on the forever war in the Middle-East and the revenge narrative was running out of steam. A lot of Westerner criticism of the first show has to do with Kira's "Jesus complex" where only he is allowed to decide who lives and dies).
  • In World End Economica, the protagonist gets death threats from the former employees of a fraudulent megacorporation he exposed, which led to its collapse. "If only you had stayed quiet, I could have kept my job! How am I going to pay my bills?".
  • In Vinland Saga, the protagonist settles down and claims to reject violence, but is then eventually confronted by victims of his raids.
  • Yakuza 6: the final entry in the story. Kiryu's career comes crumbling down as the incidental victims of his heroing in the prior games come after him and target his adopted children. To keep his daughter safe, he has to fake his death and leave behind everything he built.
  • The Last of Us 2: the protagonist of this entry, Abby, sets out to avenge her father, who was murdered by the protagonist of the first game. (This entry is popularly hated, though for a lot of reasons other than that plot point such as the unlikability of Abby in personality and in appearance, gay sex scenes, etc).
  • Gundam Iron-Blooded Orphans season 2: in the final two episodes, partly because the protagonists were kinda murderhobos who broke the rules of engagement in season 1 and massacred Carta's unit rather than having a knightly duel with them, Rustal Ellion and Gaelio (who was Carta's fiance) refuses the protagonist's offer of surrender and opts to have them wiped out in kind. Both of the protagonists die, with Orga being killed in a hit and run, and Mika dying in a doomed last stand trying to buy time for the surviving members of Tekkaden to escape through underground tunnels.

But I cannot think of any prominent examples in games besides Yakuza 6 and TLOU2.

Do videogames tend to avoid this because they want to flatter the player character? Reassure the player that he can do no wrong and is perfect and beloved, even though it makes zero sense? At least for the Japanese, it is more understandable since they are secular and don't want to believe in a God and thus an absolute right and wrong and judgement, so they don't want to talk about WW2 and their fiction often abdicates accountability and lets people off the hook. But what about the absence of this in Westerner works?
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on February 2nd, 2026, 08:21, edited 7 times in total.
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I am not talking about stuff like Spec Ops the Line or Dishonored where the game vaguely insinuates that killing lots of people is wrong. I mean people the protagonist wronged specifically coming after him.
Last edited by Val the Moofia Boss on February 2nd, 2026, 08:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Stack of Turtles »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 07:59
Maybe I wasn't clear, but I am not talking about stuff like Spec Ops the Line or Dishonored where the game vaguely insinuates that killing lots of people is wrong. I mean people the protagonist wronged specifically coming after him.
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Post by Tadeusz »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 07:59
I mean people the protagonist wronged specifically coming after him.
Underrail has this as the group you wronged can come back in random encounters to take their revenge on you. Free Drones mutants
Fallout 3 has something like this as there are random encounters for evil alignment as well (though they are random vigilantes but you're a high-profile target for them).
NWN2 and MotB also have something like this. I'm sure there are more. I wouldn't call it rare in western RPGs as this is among common consequences for story choices.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Fallout New Vegas and its Lonesome Road expansion comes to mind first. Or Witcher games. Even Rimworld.
Those situations are not rare in games they are just not so overdramatic to remember them.
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Post by Norfleet »

Eve, probably, because your actions have ****** off real people and they WILL come after you. Possibly for realsies.
I don't think this is a thing that really happens in Ribaorld. In Ribaorld, it's more like "your character's entire fambly you never even knew they had, including those who are straight up physically impossible, will eventually show up and attempt to murder you for no ******* reason".
Last edited by Norfleet on February 2nd, 2026, 09:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 09:50
Eve, probably, because your actions have ****** off real people and they WILL come after you. Possibly for realsies.
I don't think this is a thing that really happens in Ribaorld. In Ribaorld, it's more like "your character's entire fambly you never even knew they had, including those who are straight up physically impossible, will eventually show up and attempt to murder you for no ******* reason".
There are more examples in this game.
E.g. you capture someone from other faction and get a reaction in form of a raid with prisoner's family members. Or relationship dynamics between pawns in a player's unstable settlement.
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Post by Norfleet »

MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 09:59
There are more examples in this game.
E.g. you capture someone from other faction and get a reaction in form of a raid with prisoner's family members.
That's not a reaction. That's just a random raid, that happens to contain random relations. They could contain random relations of ANYONE. Including the ex-wife and kids of a colonist that was born in your colony, and has never left its walls. Somehow.
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 09:59
Or relationship dynamics between pawns in a player's unstable settlement.
Yeah, here's the thing: Everything about "relationships" in Ribaorld is just random noise with basically no logic, causality, or even consistency checking. It's not a reactive system with repercussions for the player's actions. If you look at it too closely, YOU NOTICE. And I am a noticer.
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Post by Tadeusz »

Since Rimworld was mentioned, another good example is Valheim - if you kill a troll (or some other specific creatures as well) or a mini-boss they are added to the pool of random encounters and can come to wreak havoc on your base.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:07
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 09:59
There are more examples in this game.
E.g. you capture someone from other faction and get a reaction in form of a raid with prisoner's family members.
That's not a reaction. That's just a random raid, that happens to contain random relations. They could contain random relations of ANYONE. Including the ex-wife and kids of a colonist that was born in your colony, and has never left its walls. Somehow.
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 09:59
Or relationship dynamics between pawns in a player's unstable settlement.
Yeah, here's the thing: Everything about "relationships" in Ribaorld is just random noise with basically no logic, causality, or even consistency checking. It's not a reactive system with repercussions for the player's actions. If you look at it too closely, YOU NOTICE. And I am a noticer.
Doesn't matter if it's just some RNG at work. If a player has strong imagination/empathy and will emotionally react to it then it did the job. Not everyone is good at noticing.
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Post by Norfleet »

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:09
Since Rimworld was mentioned
Honestly, Ribaorld is a BAD example. Ribaorld has very little causality. The fundamental nature of Ribaorld is that the game is driven by random events and occurrences, which do not have any causal link to anything that previously happened, and often contradict basic logical consistency and prior observation. Humans, however, are very good at trying to inject patterns into things that do not actually have them. When you get raided by someone, and this raid HAPPENS to have someone who is related to the person you have imprisoned in your dungeon, people often think "Oh, this must be their fambly coming to try to get them back!". But no. That's not what is actually happening. That's just the game generating spontaneous random relatives of any character in the game. It's attempting to FAKE this, not through actual causality, but by exploiting the flaw in human perception that causes people to perceive causality where none exists. I know this and am not fooled because:

1. I am an experienced Ribaorld player that has been there since very early versions, which I still have.

2. I have disassembled the Ribaorld code to find out WHY THE **** too many times.

3. I have made mods to FIX this WHY THE **** so that the world remains CONSISTENT and things do NOT happen which contradict previously observed facts.

4. Defense attorneys keep rejecting me from juries apparently because they can tell that I am a noticer of things.
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:18
Doesn't matter if it's just some RNG at work. If a player has strong imagination/empathy and will emotionally react to it then it did the job.
It DOES matter, because reality doesn't care about your feelings. By that logic, you may as well be playing Chad Gippity, the Game. People have emotional reactions to THAT, too. Guess what? Chad Gippity has no connection to reality. Chad Gippity's hallucination is not real, and neither is yours.
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:18
Not everyone is good at noticing.
Skill issue.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:21
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 10:18
Doesn't matter if it's just some RNG at work. If a player has strong imagination/empathy and will emotionally react to it then it did the job.
It DOES matter, because reality doesn't care about your feelings. By that logic, you may as well be playing Chad Gippity, the Game. People have emotional reactions to THAT, too. Guess what? Chad Gippity has no connection to reality. Chad Gippity's hallucination is not real, and neither is yours.
Oh, I can extrapolate your logic and deny your existence then because you don't exist in my reality. How do I know you are a real person? All I can experience is interacting with a PC which is running a bunch of code powered by some electric current. And if you don't even exist as a sentient being I have no need to feel empathy while interacting with a bot.
Stuff is as real as we let it to be.
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Post by Norfleet »

MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 11:09
Oh, I can extrapolate your logic and deny your existence then because you don't exist in my reality. How do I know you are a real person?
You don't. And it doesn't matter because nothing I'm telling you is contingent on this being true.

You CAN, however, independently verify everything I've said about Ribaorld by dissecting it yourself. This applies regardless of whether I am real or just Chad Gippity.
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 11:09
And if you don't even exist as a sentient being I have no need to feel empathy while interacting with a bot.
Stuff is as real as we let it to be.
Strictly speaking, I don't feel a need for that even when interacting with a person.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 11:16
You CAN, however, independently verify everything I've said about Ribaorld by dissecting it yourself. This applies regardless of whether I am real or just Chad Gippity.
I can do that to any videogame to void it of any meaning or any phenomenon even. If i break down everything to the most basic components I can come to a conclusion that no composite things really exist in the world except those indivisible basics and some rules for them to interact. Sounds like a simulation to me. Are we living in a videogame? Must be that famous RPGHQ one.
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Post by Tangerine »

Didn't you ask something like this already?

But the Flaming Fist in BG1 will continuously hunt you down if you've killed some of its men.
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Post by Oyster Sauce »

In Fallout 3 you get a bounty on your head and have mercenaries repeatedly track you down and try to execute you for being too nice. Does that count?
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Post by Stanko »

After you complete "Diamond City Blues" in Fallout 4, you get a few interactions in the DC:
1) Malcolm Latimer will approach you and ask if you're the one who killed his son Nelson in the drug deal fight. If you fail a charisma check or straight up say yes, he'll be furious with you. I'm not sure if he's supposed to send some goons to hunt you out in the Wasteland, since it's so easy to not play the game not interact with that ****** at all, It never happened to me.
2) Cooke's daughter will arrive and start looking for him. If you killed him and you tell her about it, she attacks you.
3) If you kill Paul Pembroke, his wife will ask you what happened to him. She'll hate you if you tell her you killed him. Also, I think she gets pissy with you anyway even if Paul died in the drug deal fight, since you didn't protect him or smth. Not sure about that one.
Last edited by Stanko on February 2nd, 2026, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Norfleet »

MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 11:43
I can do that to any videogame to void it of any meaning or any phenomenon even. If i break down everything to the most basic components I can come to a conclusion that no composite things really exist in the world except those indivisible basics and some rules for them to interact. Sounds like a simulation to me. Are we living in a videogame? Must be that famous RPGHQ one.
No, some games really DO have causality. For instance, going back to Ribaorld, if you launch trash at another faction's base, they will attack you for it. This is a direct causal relationship between the occurrences that you can verify in the code. Similarly, setting the map on fire causes it to rain. These causalities are real and explicit, not hallucinations. Others are not quite so explicit, but certainly emergent, such as that taking actions to **** off another faction will result in them raiding you. While there is not an explicit causality between these two events (the raid is entirely random and not actually a revenge as such, but your actions caused that faction to become part of the eligible attacker factions), they follow naturally from system behavior and the behavior would not have otherwise occurred had you not followed that chain.

The behavior YOU described, where fambly members of a captive attack to get the captive back, however, is pure hallucination: The relationship is randomly generated and follows no coherent logic or even observational consistency. The attack is random and would have occurred anyway, and is not executed with any purpose. The causal relationship doesn't exist at all.
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Post by methoxetamine »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 07:54
[*]Yakuza 6: the final entry in the story. Kiryu's career comes crumbling down as the incidental victims of his heroing in the prior games come after him and target his adopted children. To keep his daughter safe, he has to fake his death and leave behind everything he built.
Grown up Haruka is one of the dumbest fictional whores ever conceived. Despite their terrible writing in recent years, I honestly gotta give props to RGG to portraying a ******** ******* stupid ***** with such realism
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Post by Norfleet »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 07:54
[*]Yakuza 6: the final entry in the story. Kiryu's career comes crumbling down as the incidental victims of his heroing in the prior games come after him and target his adopted children. To keep his daughter safe, he has to fake his death and leave behind everything he built.
The morality of killing children becomes clear when you're dealing with cultures characterized by blood revenge: If you don't wipe out the entire fambly line of whoever you're forced to act against, they WILL simply come after you and yours in the future.
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Tangerine wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 13:42
Didn't you ask something like this already?
Just double checked the titles of all of the threads I have created. I do not believe I have.
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Post by Tangerine »

Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 19:34
Tangerine wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 13:42
Didn't you ask something like this already?
Just double checked the titles of all of the threads I have created. I do not believe I have.
I looked through and was thinking this one: viewtopic.php?t=5052-why-don-t-games-an ... my-nations
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Post by Val the Moofia Boss »

Tangerine wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 19:37
Val the Moofia Boss wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 19:34
Tangerine wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 13:42
Didn't you ask something like this already?
Just double checked the titles of all of the threads I have created. I do not believe I have.
I looked through and was thinking this one: viewtopic.php?t=5052-why-don-t-games-an ... my-nations
Darn, I completely forgot about that one.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 18:56
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 11:43
I can do that to any videogame to void it of any meaning or any phenomenon even. If i break down everything to the most basic components I can come to a conclusion that no composite things really exist in the world except those indivisible basics and some rules for them to interact. Sounds like a simulation to me. Are we living in a videogame? Must be that famous RPGHQ one.
No, some games really DO have causality. For instance, going back to Ribaorld, if you launch trash at another faction's base, they will attack you for it. This is a direct causal relationship between the occurrences that you can verify in the code. Similarly, setting the map on fire causes it to rain. These causalities are real and explicit, not hallucinations. Others are not quite so explicit, but certainly emergent, such as that taking actions to **** off another faction will result in them raiding you. While there is not an explicit causality between these two events (the raid is entirely random and not actually a revenge as such, but your actions caused that faction to become part of the eligible attacker factions), they follow naturally from system behavior and the behavior would not have otherwise occurred had you not followed that chain.

The behavior YOU described, where fambly members of a captive attack to get the captive back, however, is pure hallucination: The relationship is randomly generated and follows no coherent logic or even observational consistency. The attack is random and would have occurred anyway, and is not executed with any purpose. The causal relationship doesn't exist at all.
Yeah, I get it. Your point is some of Rimworld's elements are chaotic by nature therefore they are not abiding simple logic and don't fit the theme of this thread which is essentially causality of player's actions evoking impactful emotional response. I'll let @Val the Moofia Boss decide if I should be banned for my fallacy.
My point is I still think some chaos is always fun and can lead to dramatic and interesting stories if a player is capable of suspending his disbelief.
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Post by Norfleet »

MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 20:47
My point is I still think some chaos is always fun and can lead to dramatic and interesting stories if a player is capable of suspending his disbelief.
Ribaorld tends more to create immersion-destroying breaks from observed reality than "dramatic and interesting stories", in truth. Like I said: When your freshly-grown 18 year old colonist who has never left the base is suddenly raided by his ex-wife and three kids, it is just not possible to reconcile this with observed reality. I can fix it with modding, but the moment you become a modder, any illusion you may have sustained before is permanently and irrevocably gone as you see the system for what it really is. I can suspend belief over things like "unicorns and dragons and magic are real". I can't suspend belief over THAT, and the ramifications that the system thus produces, where every single fambly member it is theoretically possible to have, regardless of whether it is PHYSICALLY possible for that specific character to have, will eventually come to kill you. I can't help it: I'm a noticer.
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Post by MrTwinkls »

Norfleet wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 21:04
MrTwinkls wrote: ↑ February 2nd, 2026, 20:47
My point is I still think some chaos is always fun and can lead to dramatic and interesting stories if a player is capable of suspending his disbelief.
Ribaorld tends more to create immersion-destroying breaks from observed reality than "dramatic and interesting stories", in truth. Like I said: When your freshly-grown 18 year old colonist who has never left the base is suddenly raided by his ex-wife and three kids, it is just not possible to reconcile this with observed reality. I can fix it with modding, but the moment you become a modder, any illusion you may have sustained before is permanently and irrevocably gone as you see the system for what it really is. I can suspend belief over things like "unicorns and dragons and magic are real". I can't suspend belief over THAT, and the ramifications that the system thus produces, where every single fambly member it is theoretically possible to have, regardless of whether it is PHYSICALLY possible for that specific character to have, will eventually come to kill you. I can't help it: I'm a noticer.
Skill issue.
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Post by Norfleet »

The ability to notice when you are being given poorly-curated slop is not an issue.