The LARIAN Thread

[Val the Moofia Boss]

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't really understand why they're so opposed to it
It's not like it's something they don't support anyways, it's the same movement system used when you plug in a gamepad

[The_Mask]

Larian's next game, Divinity, is gonna have some big changes to the usual Original Sin formula—and it's thanks to Baldur's Gate 3, so sayeth a Larian lead in a recent Reddit AMA. Nick Pechenin, head of design at the studio, said that its take on the Dungeons & Dragons ruleset informed a lot of how Divinity's shaping up.

"We went through our original ideas for DoS1 and DoS2," Pechenin writes, "Looked again at how they worked out in practice, picked up some inspirations from our BG3 EA and post-release journey, consulted the star charts to see what we need to do to stay competitive—and cooked a new action economy and character progression system."

As for what that action economy and character progression system looks like, I can only make guesses at this point. Which is fair, works in progress are, indeed, works in progress. It'll really depend on which direction Larian swings the needle—D&D's action economy has a heavy reliance on crowd control, given you only have one action per turn (alongside a bonus action and movement).



While DoS2 was also crowd-control heavy, you also had a bunch of action points to spend—which, via certain abilities, could be refreshed, allowing for some pretty drawn-out turns. While you started each turn with four, you could have six total, including some Action Points banked from your prior turn: So not having something to do wasn't all that punishing.

Contrast this to D&D 5e, where whiffing your one attack leaves you with your pants down unless you're built around having more. If I were to soothsay a bit, I reckon the sentence: "We hope that both fans of BG3 and fans of DoS2 will find the new system intuitive but deep" suggest a balance between the two. Maybe something like Pathfinder 2e's three-action system? A guy can dream.

In another reply, Pechenin re-affirms something I feel like everyone's felt playing DoS2. That being, the surfaces can sometimes get a bit much: "It is cool to have alternative versions of elemental surfaces that change how you have to play around them. We maybe went too far last time with giving every surface a cursed and a blessed variant. Few people immediately guessed the function of blessed oil for example.

"The duration of combat encounters is also on our mind. [The] Oilfield fight directly inspired the tech we showcased in BG3 that allows multiple simple enemies to move and attack at the same time, cutting down waiting by the player. We also try to avoid monsters crawling around veeery slooowly."


The biggest of Pechenin's reveals, though, is a veer away from randomised loot, inspired by D&D's magic item system. While Baldur's Gate 3 was far more madcap than the TTRPG, allowing you to equip an entire MMO character's worth of magic gubbins (rather than D&D's limit of three attuned magic items), it was still a far cry from randomised loot, given the stricter ruleset.

"The BG3 approach of handcrafting every magic item worked well, and it's something we've always wanted to do for DOS2," Pechenin explains. "Something we realized when working on randomized loot for DoS1 and DoS2 is that fully random loot is frequently confusing, so we added more and more rules and pre-made patterns to make it feel more intentional."

And yet, did this actually save time when compared to just hand-crafting things? Not really, no: "In the end randomization did not save us much time." Sometimes it's just easier to do it yourself.

[Rand]

I like to think (and it's probably true) that most of the developers at Larian, especially the ones in favor of the "progressive" ********, are aware of RPGHQ and our hosted mods, and quietly seethe about them because there's nothing they can do.

[roldet]

"Larian's main focus for Divinity is 'to see how far we can push the diversity of companions' so intra-NPC relationships can feel more natural and complex"

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/laria ... d-complex/

[CheesusCrust]

"Larian's main focus for Divinity is 'to see how far we can push the diversity of companions' so intra-NPC relationships can feel more natural and complex"

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/laria ... d-complex/

DoS2 was a murderhobo delight and was ******* unenjoyable because of that... but does it mean I'll be klling tons of ******* too?

[orinEsque]

There's nothing wrong with being a murderhobo. Killing is part and parcel of an RPG game.

[The_Mask]

I'm old enough to remember the articles about the pains Jaheira's "romance" was to implement in BG II. You would think that people would go back to when the spell was cast and listen to the chant.

I guess we're now cursed with endless Morning Glory Milking Farm level trash for all eternity... *despair*

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm old enough to remember the articles about the pains Jaheira's "romance" was to implement in BG II. You would think that people would go back to when the spell was cast and listen to the chant.

I guess we're now cursed with endless Morning Glory Milking Farm level trash for all eternity... *despair*

This all started with teaching women to read.

[Maledict]

"Larian's main focus for Divinity is 'to see how far we can push the diversity of companions' so intra-NPC relationships can feel more natural and complex"

https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/laria ... d-complex/

So it will be like in BG3 where I killed all except for 2 and then used a hireling? Grand.

[mercerxiv]

Ugh, the trailer looks awful. Doesn't look like something interesting to play, all we see is a bunch of heathens burn a guy and weird **** happen. How's that supposed to market an RPG? Where are the classes, the fighting, the adventure?

[Roguey]

I'm old enough to remember the articles about the pains Jaheira's "romance" was to implement in BG II. You would think that people would go back to when the spell was cast and listen to the chant.

I guess we're now cursed with endless Morning Glory Milking Farm level trash for all eternity... *despair*

Kristjanson only had himself to blame for that by making it crazy-complex. Gaider was the master, implementing three romances with no issues because he kept it simple.

[Valter]

So why is BG3 so much more popular than Divinity OS 2? Tried playing both and, while neither held my interest too far past the tutorial, they didn't feel very different as games. Is the Baldur's Gate IP really that big of a multiplier? Or was it the increased focus on romance and sex? Or did the marketing team really hit bullseye with the bear sex meme?

[rusty_shackleford]

So why is BG3 so much more popular than Divinity OS 2? Tried playing both and, while neither held my interest too far past the tutorial, they didn't feel very different as games. Is the Baldur's Gate IP really that big of a multiplier? Or was it the increased focus on romance and sex? Or did the marketing team really hit bullseye with the bear sex meme?

higher production values

also helps that the market wasn't anywhere near as dry in 2016/2017 vs late 2023

[Valter]

So why is BG3 so much more popular than Divinity OS 2? Tried playing both and, while neither held my interest too far past the tutorial, they didn't feel very different as games. Is the Baldur's Gate IP really that big of a multiplier? Or was it the increased focus on romance and sex? Or did the marketing team really hit bullseye with the bear sex meme?

higher production values

also helps that the market wasn't anywhere near as dry in 2016/2017 vs late 2023

While I'd say DOS 2 definitely doesn't look cheap, what with it still looking great graphically and most of the lines being voiced, BG3 does have a closeup camera for most conversations, detailed animations included, and definitely a higher budget intro. I guess that makes a big cinematic difference, but that big?

What about throughout the entirety of both games, did BG3 have a lot more big budget cutscenes?

[rusty_shackleford]

So why is BG3 so much more popular than Divinity OS 2? Tried playing both and, while neither held my interest too far past the tutorial, they didn't feel very different as games. Is the Baldur's Gate IP really that big of a multiplier? Or was it the increased focus on romance and sex? Or did the marketing team really hit bullseye with the bear sex meme?

higher production values

also helps that the market wasn't anywhere near as dry in 2016/2017 vs late 2023

While I'd say DOS 2 definitely doesn't look cheap, what with it still looking great graphically and most of the lines being voiced, BG3 does have a closeup camera for most conversations, detailed animations included, and definitely a higher budget intro. I guess that makes a big cinematic difference, but that big?

What about throughout the entirety of both games, did BG3 have a lot more big budget cutscenes?

DOS2 has way less cutscenes, relying purely on dialogue.

But don't get it wrong, adjusted for development cost, DOS2 was quite profitable afaik. Very high ROI, BG3 was a much bigger investment + licensing fees cut.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The aesthetic of DOS2 looks cheap and unappealing. It seems to be top down view only. And from what I have heard, it doesn't sound like anybody plays it for the story, and I have only heard people describe it as "comical".

BG3 has higher fidelity models that don't look bad. There are a lot of cutscenes with mid and closeup shots. The presentation is more palatable. There is also a serious story to latch on to, and so far I found the story to be more engaging than Mass Effect. The game is also mostly fun to play. My main issues would be the unsatisfactory visual presentation of the combat, and the unclear and unsatisfactory class fantasies (namely that Eldritch Knight isn't very cool).

[rusty_shackleford]

The aesthetic of DOS2 looks cheap and unappealing. It seems to be top down view only. And from what I have heard, it doesn't sound like anybody plays it for the story, and I have only heard people describe it as "comical".

BG3 has higher fidelity models that don't look bad. There are a lot of cutscenes with mid and closeup shots. The presentation is more palatable. There is also a serious story to latch on to, and so far I found the story to be more engaging than Mass Effect. The game is also mostly fun to play. My main issues would be the unsatisfactory visual presentation of the combat, and the unclear and unsatisfactory class fantasies (namely that Eldritch Knight isn't very cool).

DOS1 is the one with the more comical style, people complain about larian humor far too much tho imo. DOS1 is like a fairy tale and one of my favorite games, heartily recommended.
I'd like to find the spare time to create a hand placed loot mod for it someday.

[Roguey]

The aesthetic of DOS2 looks cheap and unappealing. It seems to be top down view only. And from what I have heard, it doesn't sound like anybody plays it for the story, and I have only heard people describe it as "comical".

It's "cheaper" but not cheap. It had a core team of over 100 people. A case of "What if an 00s-era Bioware-sized team focused on gameplay instead of cinematics?"
Ended up selling millions of copies, just not tens of millions like BG3. After all, BG3 was funded by the massive amount of money they got from DOS 2.

[BLofbr]

Larian studios has always been a bunch of *******.

Consumers will eat the slop larian drops with their new divinity and players still hasnt learned from other divinity games, and from bg3.