Mass Effect series.

[logincrash]

I do still really like ME2. However it has a great amount of issues, not least of all the writing and dumbing down of skills and equipment management. Difference is I can say I like the game while acknowledging that. Most people think "I like the thing" = "It's good", which is of course a complete npc ****** take, but what can you do?

I've enjoyed all the hours I put into it, but the more I reflect on it, the more I think ME2 and ME3 are about as bad as the Dragon Age sequels are compared to Origins.
New players should not play ME2 and ME3 because they are detrimental to the overall Mass Effect experience.

[Reichspepe]

I do still really like ME2. However it has a great amount of issues, not least of all the writing and dumbing down of skills and equipment management. Difference is I can say I like the game while acknowledging that. Most people think "I like the thing" = "It's good", which is of course a complete npc ****** take, but what can you do?

I've enjoyed all the hours I put into it, but the more I reflect on it, the more I think ME2 and ME3 are about as bad as the Dragon Age sequels are compared to Origins.
New players should not play ME2 and ME3 because they are detrimental to the overall Mass Effect experience.

I wouldn't say it's that bad, but I get the sentiment.

[TKVNC]

Are people just lying when they said they enjoy the 2nd game? It's a simple downgrade in every way.

it does some things somewhat better than the first game, but mostly at the expense of abandoning all ambitions. Like, ME1's combat is really bad and unsatisfying, ME1's rpg system is full of boring stuff like "+5% to rifle damage" or "+1 to shields", ME1's inventory is a complete dogshit, most of the side quests are boring, every uncharted planet you visit is boring and copypasted, etc etc.

ME2 rectifies most of those issues, but in doing so just turns into a dumb cover shooter. The thing is - a lot of people like cover shooters, and as far as cover shooters go, ME2 is fairly good. You play as a cool guy who shoots aliens, seduces hot chicks and does not afraid of anything - what's not to love?

The orange UI is ugly as ****. Especially after the clean blue Sci-Fi UI, which had SOVL.

Having no inventory was a terrible idea, customising your armour, rather than wearing different gear is also horrible.

Ammunition is a dogshit choice following the superior heat mechanic of the 1st game.

I simply cannot agree with your assessment of ME1's combat. Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

Also, as an addendum, romance in games is almost always utterly contemptable.

[wndrbr]

Are people just lying when they said they enjoy the 2nd game? It's a simple downgrade in every way.

it does some things somewhat better than the first game, but mostly at the expense of abandoning all ambitions. Like, ME1's combat is really bad and unsatisfying, ME1's rpg system is full of boring stuff like "+5% to rifle damage" or "+1 to shields", ME1's inventory is a complete dogshit, most of the side quests are boring, every uncharted planet you visit is boring and copypasted, etc etc.

ME2 rectifies most of those issues, but in doing so just turns into a dumb cover shooter. The thing is - a lot of people like cover shooters, and as far as cover shooters go, ME2 is fairly good. You play as a cool guy who shoots aliens, seduces hot chicks and does not afraid of anything - what's not to love?

The orange UI is ugly as ****. Especially after the clean blue Sci-Fi UI, which had SOVL.

Having no inventory was a terrible idea, customising your armour, rather than wearing different gear is also horrible.

Ammunition is a dogshit choice following the superior heat mechanic of the 1st game.

I simply cannot agree with your assessment of ME1's combat. Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

Enemies react better to getting hit, have staggers/pain animations/gibbing, etc etc. There's a bigger variety of them too, and the encounters are overall more fun and diverse.

Cover system is less janky, gives you more control since you no longer stick to covers automatically. The actual combat levels are better designed, and don't look like the same copypasted room with a bunch of crates.

Guns are more accurate and feel overall better due to better animations and recoil. Heavy weapons are a good addition. I don't like thermal clips, but they bring an element of short-term resource management, and forces you to leave cover if you run out of ammo. Plus it's just satisfying to see Shepard rack the gun's slide or a bolt handle, and see a glowing spent clip flying away.

I'm not a fan of those stacked layers of shields/armor/barriers, but they make combat more interesting by forcing you to reguarly utilize your party members' abilities. Biotic detonation is a cool new addition. Classes are more distinct and have their own cool abilities, like drones / tech armor / invisibility cloak / biotic charge / bullet time / etc.

[logincrash]

Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

That is likely the case. ME1 combat is serviceable, but BioWare weren't in the business of making third person shooters at the time. They had to learn the basics just to make ME2, which unfortunately meant gimping all the RPG features in favour of the very boring literally-not-an-RPG leveling system.
Supposedly, the LE reworked the original ME1 gunplay. I will try to stomach the fuckawful dogshit visuals to check out the ME1LE gameplay changes once I finish my completionist playthrough of the original ME1. I'll have a more informed opinion on it then.

[Bertram_Tung]

I would consider playing the game if there was a mod where you could get them BOTH killed.

Should be easy to do this in the trillogy save editor at the very least, if there isn't a dedicatdd mod.

The plot of ME3 hinges on Ashley/Kaidan being alive. You won't be able to edit them out without an extensive rewrite.

He was talking about playing ME1, not the entire trilogy. Pretty sure he has little to no interest in that.

[logincrash]

Should be easy to do this in the trillogy save editor at the very least, if there isn't a dedicatdd mod.

The plot of ME3 hinges on Ashley/Kaidan being alive. You won't be able to edit them out without an extensive rewrite.

He was talking about playing ME1, not the entire trilogy. Pretty sure he has little to no interest in that.

The conversation started with the mention of the Kaidan's gay scenes which are only present in ME3. Stack didn't specify that he was talking about ME1, and neither did you, so my post still stands.

[wndrbr]

Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

That is likely the case. ME1 combat is serviceable, but BioWare weren't in the business of making third person shooters at the time. They had to learn the basics just to make ME2, which unfortunately meant gimping all the RPG features in favour of the very boring literally-not-an-RPG leveling system.
Supposedly, the LE reworked the original ME1 gunplay. I will try to stomach the fuckawful dogshit visuals to check out the ME1LE gameplay changes once I finish my completionist playthrough of the original ME1. I'll have a more informed opinion on it then.

they've made the guns a bit more distinct i.e. some pistols and assault rifles have different fire rates, some shoot in full-auto, others in three or five rounds bursts, shotguns have different spread patters, etc. Somehow they ****** it all up by not altering the item descriptions in the inventory, so you may finish the entire game by replacing your default Lancer with higher tiered ones and never finding out about the other guns. From the description it still looks like the only difference between differently named guns from the same category is DPS and overheating rate, in order to find out the actual difference you must equip guns and shoot them.

[Bertram_Tung]

The plot of ME3 hinges on Ashley/Kaidan being alive. You won't be able to edit them out without an extensive rewrite.

He was talking about playing ME1, not the entire trilogy. Pretty sure he has little to no interest in that.

The conversation started with the mention of the Kaidan's gay scenes which are only present in ME3. Stack didn't specify that he was talking about ME1, and neither did you, so my post still stands.

Cool it with the autism, please.

[TKVNC]

it does some things somewhat better than the first game, but mostly at the expense of abandoning all ambitions. Like, ME1's combat is really bad and unsatisfying, ME1's rpg system is full of boring stuff like "+5% to rifle damage" or "+1 to shields", ME1's inventory is a complete dogshit, most of the side quests are boring, every uncharted planet you visit is boring and copypasted, etc etc.

ME2 rectifies most of those issues, but in doing so just turns into a dumb cover shooter. The thing is - a lot of people like cover shooters, and as far as cover shooters go, ME2 is fairly good. You play as a cool guy who shoots aliens, seduces hot chicks and does not afraid of anything - what's not to love?

The orange UI is ugly as ****. Especially after the clean blue Sci-Fi UI, which had SOVL.

Having no inventory was a terrible idea, customising your armour, rather than wearing different gear is also horrible.

Ammunition is a dogshit choice following the superior heat mechanic of the 1st game.

I simply cannot agree with your assessment of ME1's combat. Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

Enemies react better to getting hit, have staggers/pain animations/gibbing, etc etc. There's a bigger variety of them too, and the encounters are overall more fun and diverse.

Cover system is less janky, gives you more control since you no longer stick to covers automatically. The actual combat levels are better designed, and don't look like the same copypasted room with a bunch of crates.

Guns are more accurate and feel overall better due to better animations and recoil. Heavy weapons are a good addition. I don't like thermal clips, but they bring an element of short-term resource management, and forces you to leave cover if you run out of ammo. Plus it's just satisfying to see Shepard rack the gun's slide or a bolt handle, and see a glowing spent clip flying away.

I'm not a fan of those stacked layers of shields/armor/barriers, but they make combat more interesting by forcing you to reguarly utilize your party members' abilities. Biotic detonation is a cool new addition. Classes are more distinct and have their own cool abilities, like drones / tech armor / invisibility cloak / biotic charge / bullet time / etc.

I view it like FONV. The gunplay is not great, but changing ammo types, and different weapon choices, even if some are just bad, is far superior than FO4's watered down COD style.

Mass Effect 2 also does away with simple health pack, which is simply annoying. I hate duck and regen health style gameplay. It's unimmersive.

Also, being forced to use abilities makes it less of an RPG. When you HAVE to use something specific, it's no longer rewarding to problem solve.

I might add, problem solving is what makes an RPG.

[logincrash]

He was talking about playing ME1, not the entire trilogy. Pretty sure he has little to no interest in that.

The conversation started with the mention of the Kaidan's gay scenes which are only present in ME3. Stack didn't specify that he was talking about ME1, and neither did you, so my post still stands.

Cool it with the autism, please.

I'm not a mind reader.

[Bertram_Tung]

The conversation started with the mention of the Kaidan's gay scenes which are only present in ME3. Stack didn't specify that he was talking about ME1, and neither did you, so my post still stands.

Cool it with the autism, please.

I'm not a mind reader.

I'm not in the mood for a login-crashout, right now, okay?

[wndrbr]

I view it like FONV. The gunplay is not great, but changing ammo types, and different weapon choices, even if some are just bad, is far superior than FO4's watered down COD style.

Mass Effect 2 also does away with simple health pack, which is simply annoying. I hate duck and regen health style gameplay. It's unimmersive.

Also, being forced to use abilities makes it less of an RPG. When you HAVE to use something specific, it's no longer rewarding to problem solve.

I might add, problem solving is what makes an RPG.

well duh, i've already said that i do not consider ME2 an rpg, it's just gears of war with magic abilities.

I'm just trying to be the devil's advocate here, explaining why someone may like the game more than ME1.

[logincrash]

Cool it with the autism, please.

I'm not a mind reader.

I'm not in the mood for a login-crashout, right now, okay?

The "Funny" reaction is sincere because I appreciate the wordplay.
I'm not being combative. It appears that the text format doesn't convey the tone fully, because I'm having a casual conversation here, not an intense Internet argument.

[TKVNC]

I view it like FONV. The gunplay is not great, but changing ammo types, and different weapon choices, even if some are just bad, is far superior than FO4's watered down COD style.

Mass Effect 2 also does away with simple health pack, which is simply annoying. I hate duck and regen health style gameplay. It's unimmersive.

Also, being forced to use abilities makes it less of an RPG. When you HAVE to use something specific, it's no longer rewarding to problem solve.

I might add, problem solving is what makes an RPG.

well duh, i've already said that i do not consider ME2 an rpg, it's just gears of war with magic abilities.

I'm just trying to be the devil's advocate here, explaining why someone may like the game more than ME1.

I suppose that makes sense.

It's sad though.

I first thought ME1 wasn't an RPG, but it began to have more elements of one toward the end.

ME2 didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. It drowned it, then locked the bathroom door and moved house.

A shame really. Such a promising build up too.

[Oyster Sauce]

A S H L E Y

@Oyster Sauce the solution is to leave him on Virmire.

Ugly hook-nosed brown bimbo whose survival hinges on you being a pussywhipped simp who values the life of a random grunt you found under a bus over an officer on your crew who has magical powers.

[Kolgrim]

Are people just lying when they said they enjoy the 2nd game? It's a simple downgrade in every way.

I honestly believe the people who say the second is their favorite of the series or one of their favorite games of all time never played the original or started with ME2. In all the ways that matter it was a downgrade. Less abilities in the skill tree, thermal ******* clips, abilities are nerfed across the board, terrible shield/armor system, less world exploration, etc. They also relied heavily on DLC to try and flesh out the game with extra weapons and crew mates.

New people discovering the franchise obviously wouldn't have these criticisms and there was a lot of new people entering the fandom with ME2's release. The game was hyped heavily by journos, G4, etc. Commercials ran constantly and there was several different trailers promoting the crew and characters. Cover shooting was big at the time so the dude bro audience was also interested and the game launched on PS3 which was a new market entirely considering the first was initially an Xbox exclusive.

I don't know about other forums but at the time it released I was a gamefaqs user and I remember a lot of discussions around how generic ME2 felt in comparison to the first and it being a common opinion that the game was a disappointment for old fans. So yeah I think the second is mainly praised because it was an entry point for a decent portion of the fandom.

[TKVNC]

A S H L E Y

@Oyster Sauce the solution is to leave him on Virmire.

Ugly hook-nosed brown bimbo whose survival hinges on you being a pussywhipped simp who values the life of a random grunt you found under a bus over an officer on your crew who has magical powers.

To be fair, logically Kiaden dying seems more believable. He complains about migraines all day, and is haunted by his past. He states he has no regrets when you accept his sacrifice.

It also saves him from becoming a ****** in ME2, if some posters are to be believed.

[wndrbr]

A S H L E Y

@Oyster Sauce the solution is to leave him on Virmire.

Ugly hook-nosed brown bimbo whose survival hinges on you being a pussywhipped simp who values the life of a random grunt you found under a bus over an officer on your crew who has magical powers.

dying is a better fate than becoming gay.

[J1M]

Having never played the games before, and recently finishing the 1st, I was optimistic for the other games, and interested in whether they could make a new one.

Having played 30m of the 2nd game, I no longer care.

Are people just lying when they said they enjoy the 2nd game? It's a simple downgrade in every way.

As a game it has a good structure. As a therapy tool some people enjoy building a team of friends.

[Kalarion]

Are people just lying when they said they enjoy the 2nd game? It's a simple downgrade in every way.

I honestly believe the people who say the second is their favorite of the series or one of their favorite games of all time never played the original or started with ME2.

...

Wunderbar already explained it. ME2 was my favorite of the two when it came out, and of the three when ME3 arrived. But it wasn't my favorite because it was a good RPG (or even an RPG at all), it just had fun popcorn shooter mechanics, and the class-specific abilities were cool as hell for me at the time. Bouncing around like a human pinball and blasting mooks in the face while they're flipped upside down in the air was just fun.

I haven't replayed it since my first playthrough, I would probably like it considerably less now, but we were talking about initial reception, and I think Wunderbar nailed it.

[stormvermin]

I don't know about other forums but at the time it released I was a gamefaqs user and I remember a lot of discussions around how generic ME2 felt in comparison to the first and it being a common opinion that the game was a disappointment for old fans. So yeah I think the second is mainly praised because it was an entry point for a decent portion of the fandom.

Keep in mind the game was made for Dean Takahashi (and probably DSP).

To be fair, logically Kiaden dying seems more believable. He complains about migraines all day, and is haunted by his past. He states he has no regrets when you accept his sacrifice.

It also saves him from becoming a ****** in ME2, if some posters are to be believed.

@grok how can I sacrifice both Kaidan and Ashley? I need to be extra sure that nuke goes off properly.

[J1M]

Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

That is likely the case. ME1 combat is serviceable, but BioWare weren't in the business of making third person shooters at the time. They had to learn the basics just to make ME2, which unfortunately meant gimping all the RPG features in favour of the very boring literally-not-an-RPG leveling system.
Supposedly, the LE reworked the original ME1 gunplay. I will try to stomach the fuckawful dogshit visuals to check out the ME1LE gameplay changes once I finish my completionist playthrough of the original ME1. I'll have a more informed opinion on it then.

Every time I see someone say this I feel like I am being gaslit. The gunplay in ME1 felt serviceable but stiff to me in both versions.

[TKVNC]

Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

That is likely the case. ME1 combat is serviceable, but BioWare weren't in the business of making third person shooters at the time. They had to learn the basics just to make ME2, which unfortunately meant gimping all the RPG features in favour of the very boring literally-not-an-RPG leveling system.
Supposedly, the LE reworked the original ME1 gunplay. I will try to stomach the fuckawful dogshit visuals to check out the ME1LE gameplay changes once I finish my completionist playthrough of the original ME1. I'll have a more informed opinion on it then.

Every time I see someone say this I feel like I am being gaslit. The gunplay in ME1 felt serviceable but stiff to me in both versions.

I actually quite enjoyed ME1 LE gunplay.

But then, I actually like Morrowind's combat.

[rusty_shackleford]

Mass Effect was brave enough to tell people that melee combat in a futuristic sci-fi setting is stupid and I respect it for that

[TKVNC]

Mass Effect was brave enough to tell people that melee combat in a futuristic sci-fi setting is stupid and I respect it for that

Truly based. I think melee is cool, but it's literally pointless when you've got a gun.

[jdcp]

I see a lot of people who criticise ME2 get dogpiled on, I suppose that tracks. It's a very Reddit game.

I wouldn't say it's on reddit levels but it's certainly a polarizing game, I've seen it worse though.

[logincrash]

Perhaps it's because I played the LE, but it is FAR superior to ME2.

That is likely the case. ME1 combat is serviceable, but BioWare weren't in the business of making third person shooters at the time. They had to learn the basics just to make ME2, which unfortunately meant gimping all the RPG features in favour of the very boring literally-not-an-RPG leveling system.
Supposedly, the LE reworked the original ME1 gunplay. I will try to stomach the fuckawful dogshit visuals to check out the ME1LE gameplay changes once I finish my completionist playthrough of the original ME1. I'll have a more informed opinion on it then.

Every time I see someone say this I feel like I am being gaslit. The gunplay in ME1 felt serviceable but stiff to me in both versions.

As I said, I haven't played LE long enough to form an informed opinion on the gameplay side. I only started a new game and got to the point where you find dead Nihilus before quitting out of shock at the horrendous visuals.

Mass Effect was brave enough to tell people that melee combat in a futuristic sci-fi setting is stupid and I respect it for that

And then ME3 backtracked on that and gave everyone a glowing orange sword/blue fist. Vanguard turned into a DBZ character.

[TKVNC]

I see a lot of people who criticise ME2 get dogpiled on, I suppose that tracks. It's a very Reddit game.

I wouldn't say it's on reddit levels but it's certainly a polarizing game, I've seen it worse though.

It's, from what I can glean, so well loved for being a Dr Phil simulator.

It's Gears of Dr Phil.

[logincrash]

****, every time I think about ME3 story, I remember Kai Leng and get the urge to start mailing anthrax to BioWare employees.