Various role-playing RPG game stuff not deserving its own thread

[roldet]

Bear's gay 3 has an encounter without combat where there's an inn burning down, and I'm always reminded of this encounter whenever I come back to dialogue in RPGs because there's an almost identical encounter in the Pillars of Eternity expansion except Pillows does it entirely thru dialogue whereas Bear's Gay 3 uses the immersive elements of the Divinity engine to allow the player to solve the encounter as a problem. It's obvious which one is the better encounter, which one is more fun and obviously more of an RPG. It's not even debatable.

These are near 1:1 comparisons, and one of these obviously ranks higher on the RPG scale than the other.




Which one is more of an RPG:
The one where you click on dialogue options?
…or…
The one where you get to order your units around, including enabling turn-based mode for tactical choices, and do things like break down doors/fallen debris, fill up buckets of water, cast water magic, etc., to put out fires? Being able to lift heavy objects, being able to quickly move around the battlefield? Yep, they all help you solve the encounter! It's such a great non-combat encounter.


Dialogue is a cope for developers that don't know how to make RPGs.

I am not sure this is about intent rather than ability. Not like writers insist on this design while code monkeys are capable of doing better ****. The fact that no other crpg except Larian games has that "physics based reactivity" stuff probably means they have a special game engine and experience. Others can replicate it with text maybe (I hit the door with X, I cast out y spell to fire etc with textual feedback and dice rolls though people will complain they want to see it visually) I am more of a writing/worldbuilding guy and POE has great lore/writing compared to any Larian game though i prefer Larian exploration, encounter design, combat. (I like shoving, throwing, jumping, manipulating objects.) My perfect game would be their amalgamation with old Bioware companions.

[rusty_shackleford]

I am not sure this is about intent rather than ability. Not like writers insist on this design while code monkeys are capable of doing better ****. The fact that no other crpg except Larian games has that "physics based reactivity" stuff probably means they have a special game engine and experience. Others can replicate it with text maybe (I hit the door with X, I cast out y spell to fire etc with textual feedback and dice rolls though people will complain they want to see it visually) I am more of a writing/worldbuilding guy and POE has great lore/writing compared to any Larian game though i prefer Larian exploration, encounter design, combat. (I like shoving, throwing, jumping, manipulating objects.) My perfect game would be their amalgamation with old Bioware companions.

Larian games have it because they copied the later Ultima games and expanded on it. Swen is a known massive fan of Ultima VII.
Contrast how Arena/Daggerfall originally copied Ultima Underworld and reduced its systems. There's still traces of it, but it's hard to find.

The late 90s/early 00s RPG "renaissance" caused near everyone to forget about what came prior.

---

This post reminds me of the gamedevs saying they can't do what Larian did because [insert reasons here], as if Larian had some unique unfair advantage with the Divinity engine that others did not have. The divinity engine did not just land in Swen's lap one day.

[roldet]

I am not sure this is about intent rather than ability. Not like writers insist on this design while code monkeys are capable of doing better ****. The fact that no other crpg except Larian games has that "physics based reactivity" stuff probably means they have a special game engine and experience. Others can replicate it with text maybe (I hit the door with X, I cast out y spell to fire etc with textual feedback and dice rolls though people will complain they want to see it visually) I am more of a writing/worldbuilding guy and POE has great lore/writing compared to any Larian game though i prefer Larian exploration, encounter design, combat. (I like shoving, throwing, jumping, manipulating objects.) My perfect game would be their amalgamation with old Bioware companions.

Larian games have it because they copied the later Ultima games and expanded on it. Swen is a known massive fan of Ultima VII.
Contrast how Arena/Daggerfall originally copied Ultima Underworld and reduced its systems. There's still traces of it, but it's hard to find.

The late 90s/early 00s RPG "renaissance" caused near everyone to forget about what came prior.

---

This post reminds me of the gamedevs saying they can't do what Larian did because [insert reasons here], as if Larian had some unique unfair advantage with the Divinity engine that others did not have. The divinity engine did not just land in Swen's lap one day.

I guess Infinity Engine games had more of an effect on industry then . I don't see any upcoming Larian like games (Solasta 2?) despite massive success of BG3 so i guess fire arrow goes brrr then grease surface burn and character gets damaged according to fire resistance and similar stuff should be hard to design or simulate. Come to think of it some arpg games has more physics/elemental based combat similar to Larian games. Old point and click adventure games with several commands also reminds me of UI of BG3.

[maidenhaver]

Every crpg should be designed for max 8-12 character levels, with expansions at most boosting to 16-20.

[Oyster Sauce]

I'm playing a Pokemon romhack right now. Having the in-game time match real-life time is so much better than any lame day/night cycle in other RPGs where you can just press a button and instantly switch to your desired hour. If you had to play Skyrim after midnight for optimal thieving while NPCs are asleep it would be infinitely more soulful.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm playing a Pokemon romhack right now. Having the in-game time match real-life time is so much better than any lame day/night cycle in other RPGs where you can just press a button and instantly switch to your desired hour. If you had to play Skyrim after midnight for optimal thieving while NPCs are asleep it would be infinitely more soulful.

Not sure if I agree with this, but being able to instantly skip time is lame and trivializes the entire point. Having it be some multiple of real time e.g., full day in 6 real hours or something is fine, MMOs do it all the time

[Stack of Turtles]

I'm playing a Pokemon romhack right now. Having the in-game time match real-life time is so much better than any lame day/night cycle in other RPGs where you can just press a button and instantly switch to your desired hour. If you had to play Skyrim after midnight for optimal thieving while NPCs are asleep it would be infinitely more soulful.

Not sure if I agree with this, but being able to instantly skip time is lame and trivializes the entire point. Having it be some multiple of real time e.g., full day in 6 real hours or something is fine, MMOs do it all the time

Only if the game takes place on some weird fast-spinning planet and rigorously depicts the physics of this correctly.

[rusty_shackleford]

Anyone played this?

[Acrux]

Anyone played this?

Yes. It has SOVL, but also a lot of over-complicated systems. I think a lot of what he wanted to do ends up being limited by using RPGMaker. Too many things are buried in sub-menus you have to bring up a lot. The writing is not very good.

Character creation and world building are interesting, but overall there's just not enough there to make it great. Someone who has a lot of tolerance for old console JRPGs might like it, but I don't think you do.

[Lhynn]

Anyone played this?

May be great, but a few years ago, after finishing a pretty good RPGMaker game I promised myself I wouldnt play any more RPGmaker games. Want to make a game, use a real engine.

[maidenhaver]

More rpgs need Mako gameplay.

[Reichspepe]

I know I truly live in current year when I see YT recommendations of videos about a coming Witcher 3 explansion and I only think "oh god please no leave it alone"

[TKVNC]

a lot of classless rpgs have rigid skillchecks and I don't like specializing, I like playing jack of all trades characters
not really sure how this playstyle could be better served in design

probably more cross-skill synergies and such, off the top of my head DOS2 had cross-skill ability books which were neat

Dare I say, just make it so skill checks are invisible if you don't have the skill - and, if you fail or succeed you get no obvious feedback.

No more [speech 7] with a "[success]...", or whatever.

Games, especially RPG's should focus more on diegesis. You're not supposed to see behind the dungeon master's screen.

Also, there should be multiple ways to resolve matters that are logical. It shouldn't matter if you can't open a door due to your lack of [insert skill] if you can just bash it down, or blow it up.

[maidenhaver]

Can you jump out of your buggy during races in RAGE?

[Algol]

I've been playing the demo for Trolddom the past hour or so... really addicting mmorpg that can only be described as "charming" in its graphics and ethos. I usually hate mmos, so this is kind of a surprise to me. Perhaps it's derivitive of something that many others have played already, but I have such poor experience with these things that I'm probably not aware of it if that's the case.

[Baldric]

Normalize fat balding men as protagonists

Max Payne looked good bald in the third game... He was completely bald though

[maidenhaver]

If its written in your game, it doesn't count. Your Lore. My Choice. Forever.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Interview with the Japanese developer of Elin:

I’ve always been enthralled by epic fantasy and sci- fi stories with intricate worldbuilding. While I enjoy plenty of anime and games, I often pick up books too. I used to shy away a bit from D&D-style novels because I assumed they’d feel too “game-like,” but last year, I became completely engrossed in the Dragonlance series. I reread the series from the beginning, swooning over how adorable Raistlin is, all while waiting for the latest installments of A Song of Ice and Fire and The Kingkiller Chronicle. In fact, Elin is also filled with many little homages to these works.

He is "swooning" over the selfish uncharismatic sickly mage who threw everyone under the bus in pursuit of power? What is "adorable" about him? That would have been - at best - Caramon or Tasslehoff.

[WhiteShark]

Interview with the Japanese developer of Elin:

I’ve always been enthralled by epic fantasy and sci- fi stories with intricate worldbuilding. While I enjoy plenty of anime and games, I often pick up books too. I used to shy away a bit from D&D-style novels because I assumed they’d feel too “game-like,” but last year, I became completely engrossed in the Dragonlance series. I reread the series from the beginning, swooning over how adorable Raistlin is, all while waiting for the latest installments of A Song of Ice and Fire and The Kingkiller Chronicle. In fact, Elin is also filled with many little homages to these works.

He is "swooning" over the selfish uncharismatic sickly mage who threw everyone under the bus in pursuit of power? What is "adorable" about him? That would have been - at best - Caramon or Tasslehoff.

I don't have an answer to your question, but I do object to that fanart(?) lacking Raistlin's trademark hourglass pupils.

[rusty_shackleford]

PCGamer #8(Jan 1995), reader's top 40, RPGs:

#37: Ultima VII: The Black Gate
#28 Ultima VIII: Pagan
#27 The Bard's Tale
#17 Betrayal at Krondor
#15 Ultima Underworld II

---

Perhaps the most noticeable thing nobody discusses anymore are flight sims. Fans of flight sims used to make up a significant portion of the gaming audience.

[Oyster Sauce]

PCGamer #8(Jan 1995), reader's top 40, RPGs:

#37: Ultima VII: The Black Gate
#28 Ultima VIII: Pagan
#27 The Bard's Tale
#17 Betrayal at Krondor
#15 Ultima Underworld II

---

Perhaps the most noticeable thing nobody discusses anymore are flight sims. Fans of flight sims used to make up a significant portion of the gaming audience.

They died of old age

[rusty_shackleford]

They died of old age

It's because gaming became cheaper, when only a small % could afford PCs the people who could also afford flight game equipment were a larger %

[Rienen]

While flight sims may have dipped, I do/did see a pretty decent rise in content for steering wheel setups playing Euro and American Truck simulator. Sure, there were always racing enthusiasts who had setups, but I'm guessing the same people who enjoy flight sims are the same who enjoy "more chill" traffic sims.

[Roguey]

PCGamer #8(Jan 1995), reader's top 40, RPGs:

#37: Ultima VII: The Black Gate
#28 Ultima VIII: Pagan
#27 The Bard's Tale
#17 Betrayal at Krondor
#15 Ultima Underworld II

---

Perhaps the most noticeable thing nobody discusses anymore are flight sims. Fans of flight sims used to make up a significant portion of the gaming audience.

We had Flight Simulator 4.0, neat toy, though of course I always inevitably crashed, even the landing tutorial scenario was difficult. The WWI plane fight scenario was neat. Just used a mouse or a joystick when we had one, never went for the flightstick.

CRPGs were certainly in a bad spot before 1996 if that's the best there was. Sold well, sure, good "for their time," I wouldn't want to play them today. Maybe Bord's Tale, I did suffer through Wasteland.

[rusty_shackleford]

I wouldn't want to play them today.

Ultima Underworld games are great

[Roguey]

I wouldn't want to play them today.

Ultima Underworld games are great

I tried to play the first, didn't like the combat controls or the torch timers. Didn't hook me the way System Shock did.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

There are only a few other games where the noncombat stuff is gamefied and interesting, like Sakura Wars with its timed dialogue choices and having to pay attention to the characters.

Sakura Wars salesman

It's working, I'm going to start it sooner or later

The entrypoints I would recommend would be either SW1 or SW5 (unless the PS4 action reboot especially appeals to you for whatever reason). (My review for SW1 here, SW2, SW5, and all of the anime shows/OVAs/movies)

SW5 is the direct precursor to Valkyria Chronicles (same dev team, same battle system) and has some engaging missions later on and FF7 styled setpiece boss fight transitions. The mechs can also transform into jets and fly around between platforms or engage in aerial combat or maneuver to hit the weak spot of a gigantic boss. SW5 also has the culmination of several games worth of refinements on the dialogue system, such as sometimes having to dexterously angle your thumbstick to modulate how loudly you will speak. The English dub is just average. Some characters sound better. Play the Japanese dub if you want. Also, if you want to romance Ratchet, then you need a NG+ save.




However, SW1 has the better aesthetics with the Taisho era setting, the designs of the Koubu mechs, and the combat mission backgrounds. SW1 also has the more varied cast of waifus to romance. The downside is that - being the first game - the missions are not as engaging or as challenging as SW5 or Valkyria Chronicles. The story of SW1 is also a little basic. SW2's story is more developed, and is also a direct continuation from 1, with your romance carrying over. (Or if the new SW2 girls of Reni and Orihime appeal to you more, you can just not carry over your romance. That way you won't feel like a traitor for ditching the SW1 girl. SW2 lets you carry over your SW1 romance and jump ship like an *******). So if you play SW1 you mind as well chain it together with SW2.

[methoxetamine]

Sakura Wars salesman

It's working, I'm going to start it sooner or later

The entrypoints I would recommend would be either SW1 or SW5 (unless the PS4 action reboot especially appeals to you for whatever reason). (My review for SW1 here, SW2, SW5, and all of the anime shows/OVAs/movies)

SW5 is the direct precursor to Valkyria Chronicles (same dev team, same battle system) and has some engaging missions later on and FF7 styled setpiece boss fight transitions. The mechs can also transform into jets and fly around between platforms or engage in aerial combat or maneuver to hit the weak spot of a gigantic boss. SW5 also has the culmination of several games worth of refinements on the dialogue system, such as sometimes having to dexterously angle your thumbstick to modulate how loudly you will speak. The English dub is just average. Some characters sound better. Play the Japanese dub if you want. Also, if you want to romance Ratchet, then you need a NG+ save.




However, SW1 has the better aesthetics with the Taisho era setting, the designs of the Koubu mechs, and the combat mission backgrounds. SW1 also has the more varied cast of waifus to romance. The downside is that - being the first game - the missions are not as engaging or as challenging as SW5 or Valkyria Chronicles. The story of SW1 is also a little basic. SW2's story is more developed, and is also a direct continuation from 1, with your romance carrying over. (Or if the new SW2 girls of Reni and Orihime appeal to you more, you can just not carry over your romance. That way you won't feel like a traitor for ditching the SW1 girl. SW2 lets you carry over your SW1 romance and jump ship like an *******). So if you play SW1 you mind as well chain it together with SW2.

I'm gonna start with 1. I grabbed the game, which Saturn emulator is ideal? I've been trying out Atelier Resleriana, I'm not sold on it yet after a few hours but I've not been given any real control yet and I've wanted to give the series a try for a while so I'm trying to stick it out

[Acrux]

Has anyone played this?

[rusty_shackleford]

Not entirely sure why but I've been having trouble getting engrossed in point-n-clicker RPGs anymore. Feel too detached.