What game had the best lockpicking/trap disarming m̶i̶n̶i̶g̶a̶m̶e mechanic?

[rusty_shackleford]

I want some proper answers, gentlemen.

[edit]
I don't like the term "minigame"

[Oyster Sauce]

Any that don't freeze time while you're doing them. The post-Morrowind Bethesda style where you can break as many lockpicks as you please in a busy street so long as you opened the screen in the half second window there were no eyes on you is very stupid.

[Boontaker]

I liked oblivions version of lockpicking, compared to FNV or Terminator: resistance. Terms hacking minigame was funny. Oblivions tumblers system is closer to actual lockpicking vs finding the right spot and turning the lock.

I can't remember any game with an indepth trap disarm mechanic, but I play RPGs and explosives/traps is generally a "you have it or you dont" skill.

[maidenhaver]

Thief was best. No minigame, just real-time time consuming/switching between picks to see what a lock takes. Added suspense if you don't blackjack everyone. Otherwise, I like how Thief Deadly Shadows had a minigame but did it real-time.

[junior]

Gothic has the worst of both worlds (or best of both worlds), not sure how I feel about it.
It's a mini-game and a stat-check at the same time.

[maidenhaver]

It should just be a stat check in rpgs. Thief is about a thief who can obviously do his job. Another reason immersive sims are better.

[rusty_shackleford]

It should just be a stat check in rpgs. Thief is about a thief who can obviously do his job. Another reason immersive sims are better.

Shouldn't combat just be a stat check then since it's not a game about playing a fighter?

[Tweed]

Thief: Hold mouse button, switch pick, check surroundings, repeat.
Gothic: L L L R L R L L R R R R L R L L L R R R R L R L R L L R L R L L

[maidenhaver]

It should just be a stat check in rpgs. Thief is about a thief who can obviously do his job. Another reason immersive sims are better.

Shouldn't combat just be a stat check then since it's not a game about playing a fighter?

Yeah.

[rusty_shackleford]

Thief: Hold mouse button, switch pick, check surroundings, repeat.
Gothic: L L L R L R L L R R R R L R L L L R R R R L R L R L L R L R L L

Gothic might have the worst lockpicking in any rpg

[junior]

Thief: Hold mouse button, switch pick, check surroundings, repeat.
Gothic: L L L R L R L L R R R R L R L L L R R R R L R L R L L R L R L L

Gothic might have the worst lockpicking in any rpg

oblivion has more obtrusive lockpicking

[wndrbr]

Starfield's lockpicking minigame is pretty bad. It stops time, it's boring, it's time-consuming, and you can't even auto-pick it. After a while I stopped bothering lockpicking master-tier chests, cuz it takes forever and also requires you to stop thinking about whatever you were doing and dedicate your attention to solving a ****** puzzle.

is there ANYTHING bethesda did right with starfield???

[maidenhaver]

Nope.

[rusty_shackleford]

Starfield's lockpicking minigame is pretty bad. It stops time, it's boring, it's time-consuming, and you can't even auto-pick it. After a while I stopped bothering lockpicking master-tier chests, cuz it takes forever and also requires you to stop thinking about whatever you were doing and dedicate your attention to solving a ****** puzzle.

is there ANYTHING bethesda did right with starfield???

I like the persuasion system, but it could use some work.

[maidenhaver]

Starfield doesn't even exist.

[Tweed]

Quest For Glory 5's lock picking/trap disarmament was rather unique.

[maidenhaver]

Was it good? Unique is a consolation prize.

[Tweed]

Debatable, it's a memory game. A greek figure danced in the center of a ring and stopped in various poses, you had to match the pose to one on the ring, low level locks/traps let you see them all at once before starting while higher level ones showed them to you one at a time. It ran on a timer.

[garren]

I really think Thief 1-2 did it the best. No time stop so if there's patrols you are time constrained, the harder the lock the longer Garrett takes time to pick it. Small interactivity by having to switch between the two lockpicks every once in while, gives the lockpicking a more involved feeling. I feel minigames are stupid as you have to make it simple enough for everyone to understand anyway, so it doesn't really matter aside from the interactivity I guess, might as well make it Thief style automatic. Except if an RPG you can have skill levels to check if you can even open it.

So switching between multiple picks to add interactivity, skill checks and having to find different picks maybe if you make the game RPG style, and no time stop to add tension if there's patrols around. That would be my ideal lockpicking.

Oh right, best game with an actual minigame? No idea lol.

[gerey]

So switching between multiple picks to add interactivity, skill checks and having to find different picks maybe if you make the game RPG style, and no time stop to add tension if there's patrols around. That would be my ideal lockpicking.

Ideally, you could add a few additional pick types and a visual component to the mechanic, by having distinct lock designs that would require different picks to unlock. So not only would the player be required to switch the pick based on sound, but would need to keep in mind which type of lock requires which pick(s).

[rusty_shackleford]

Perhaps 'minigame' was a bad choice of words and I should have used 'system'

[Kalarion]

I liked the minigame itself (concept, look, player execution) for Wizardry 8. There, I said it.

I think what would have made it more palatable is to make the tumblers have their own ranges for high-chance and auto-success based on how far they were from the start. So maybe the first two tumblers become trivial to hold at 6 skill and then guaranteed to hold at 10 skill. Then the next 2-3 only become trivial at, say 25 skill and guaranteed at 30. And so forth.

I recognize that in practice the minigame became "**** that, use Knock-knock".

[just]

not playing games that dont have skip lockpicking minigame mod

[Shillitron]

I really like Skyrim's method for traps..
Where they have noticeable levers / trip wires / etc that you can abuse against enemies, or disarm & trip yourself. I think it should be expanded though which mods do quite well.

Skyrim (And Fallout?) are the only games I can think of that have a trip wire that you can walk up to and interact with to cut it yourself. I wonder why more games don't do that..?

EDIT
They even have hanging flammable urns over oil puddles you can shoot down with arrows by hitting the ****. It's kinda depressing no other games (including Beth titles) do this kinda stuff.

--

I really liked Kingdom Come Deliverance for lockpicking & pickpocketing.. the minigame is.. whatever - but:
- it doesn't freeze time and so you get this tense feeling of quickly jiggling a lock open before the home owner notices
- it significantly improves with higher skills, you can lock pick at any skill level but you'll have to struggle a lot to not be a noisy ******* who breaks their picks all the time and gets caught, with better skill investment you can basically crack them with ease.


--

If games don't implement theft systems.. then.. the optimal lockpicking system should be instant picks with a single skill check. Don't make me sit around NWN-style waiting for a loading bar to close when it's just a time drain. Minigames / Timers should exist only when you can have a risk of being caught by NPC's and have to plan / time around that.

[maidenhaver]

I really think Thief 1-2 did it the best. No time stop so if there's patrols you are time constrained, the harder the lock the longer Garrett takes time to pick it. Small interactivity by having to switch between the two lockpicks every once in while, gives the lockpicking a more involved feeling. I feel minigames are stupid as you have to make it simple enough for everyone to understand anyway, so it doesn't really matter aside from the interactivity I guess, might as well make it Thief style automatic. Except if an RPG you can have skill levels to check if you can even open it.

So switching between multiple picks to add interactivity, skill checks and having to find different picks maybe if you make the game RPG style, and no time stop to add tension if there's patrols around. That would be my ideal lockpicking.

Oh right, best game with an actual minigame? No idea lol.

And if you need to run away, you'll return to the lock at whatever stage of picked you left it. The locks don't magically reset, which is nice.

[Tweed]

Do the riddle chests in Betrayal At Krondor count as lockpicking?

[BENEFACTOR]

Fallout 3 was cool for this.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Any that don't freeze time while you're doing them. The post-Morrowind Bethesda style where you can break as many lockpicks as you please in a busy street so long as you opened the screen in the half second window there were no eyes on you is very stupid.

IIRC not only did time not stop while lockpicking in Kingdom Come, but if you failed it would cause a noise that could be overheard by nearby NPCs. If you were trying to rob a house in the middle of a night and failed, you could wake up the inhabitants and either have to murder them or quickly leave the scene before you are found. Though KCD made it to easy to just sneak into people's houses, sneak up to them while asleep, and then just non-lethally knock them out by suffocating them in their beds, so you just do that whenever you enter a house so you don't have to worry when you're picking the locks of all the chests.

[Element]

Skyrim (And Fallout?) are the only games I can think of that have a trip wire that you can walk up to and interact with to cut it yourself. I wonder why more games don't do that..?

You mean in rpgs? Because iirc it was pretty common in actions and shooter games. Evil within, soldier of fortune 2, cultic off the top of my head. Think RE4 had them as well.

[Emphyrio]

I really like Skyrim's method for traps..
Where they have noticeable levers / trip wires / etc that you can abuse against enemies, or disarm & trip yourself. I think it should be expanded though which mods do quite well.

Skyrim (And Fallout?) are the only games I can think of that have a trip wire that you can walk up to and interact with to cut it yourself. I wonder why more games don't do that..?

EDIT
They even have hanging flammable urns over oil puddles you can shoot down with arrows by hitting the ****. It's kinda depressing no other games (including Beth titles) do this kinda stuff.

--

I really liked Kingdom Come Deliverance for lockpicking & pickpocketing.. the minigame is.. whatever - but:
- it doesn't freeze time and so you get this tense feeling of quickly jiggling a lock open before the home owner notices
- it significantly improves with higher skills, you can lock pick at any skill level but you'll have to struggle a lot to not be a noisy ******* who breaks their picks all the time and gets caught, with better skill investment you can basically crack them with ease.


--

If games don't implement theft systems.. then.. the optimal lockpicking system should be instant picks with a single skill check. Don't make me sit around NWN-style waiting for a loading bar to close when it's just a time drain. Minigames / Timers should exist only when you can have a risk of being caught by NPC's and have to plan / time around that.

Fallout 4's traps were even better than Skyrim's. Fallout 4's traps were often pretty clever and could actually do you serious harm. Traps in skyrim for some reason usually only tickled you.