D&D Edition Wars

[Rand]

Is right all the way through, but says something very correct at 4:49.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

[fkirenicus]

Actually, I'm torn between being sad and laughing.
Anyway, it is possible to use newer systems, but the good old campaign material instead of today's woke crap.
Using 3.5 system and 1e AD&D FR material for one campaign, and 3.5 system and 2e AD&D Greyhawk material for another.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Actually, I'm torn between being sad and laughing.
Anyway, it is possible to use newer systems, but the good old campaign material instead of today's woke crap.
Using 3.5 system and 1e AD&D FR material for one campaign, and 3.5 system and 2e AD&D Greyhawk material for another.

Wouldn’t that be a homebrew then?

[fkirenicus]

Wouldn’t that be a homebrew then?

Depends on how you define it. Using older material with newer systems alone, I would say "not as such". It does require some conversions, yes: NPC/monster stats from e.g., AD&D 2e to 3.x. WotC back in the day released a document detailing how to make such conversions, and mostly one only has to imagine what skills and feats would fit the creature.
Apart from that I simply ignore all events forward on from a certain period of time, such as e.g., the Time of Troubles in FR (my campaign there is set around 1330), by using the background material that does not contain the stuff I don't want to use. Hence, I use 1e FR campaign set rather than the book for 3e.
One can play D&D 5e in CY 576/Gary Gygax Greyhawk using the box set from 1983 as campaign background material. Just ignore dragonborn, aasimar, tieflings and so on... And make the necessary conversions for specific NPCs and monsters as required. For more "generic" monsters, simply use 5e stats as given in the MM.

But I am using some ("real") homebrew rules also; 3.5 stuff I have changed. Mostly more skill points for all classes since I treat languages as skills. Neither FR nor Oerth have extensive education systems. Barbarians are not alone in being illiterate. So, if you want to able to read and write, be prepared to spend time (and skill points) learning to do so.
And I've changed it so all spellcasters get 3 + (Ability mod) cantrips each day (no more, no less).

[WhiteShark]

Wouldn’t that be a homebrew then?

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who doesn't use at least a little homebrew or houserules. Probably the only people who run things 100% by the book are those running games for official play, such as convention tournaments or Adventurer's League, and even then they'll have to make rulings in the moment that other GMs might rule differently.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Wouldn’t that be a homebrew then?

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who doesn't use at least a little homebrew or houserules. Probably the only people who run things 100% by the book are those running games for official play, such as convention tournaments or Adventurer's League, and even then they'll have to make rulings in the moment that other GMs might rule differently.

What’s are convention tournaments and Adventurer's League?

[WhiteShark]

What’s are convention tournaments and Adventurer's League?

There used to be tournaments at conventions in which different groups of players would compete to clear the same dungeon the fastest and with the most loot recovered. The dungeons were effectively parallel worlds, so the parties wouldn't run into each other or interact. I've only read about them, and I don't know if they still do them.

Adventurer's League is an official WotC 5e system in which GMs run only official modules and you can bring your character from one adventure to another even under different GMs as long as he stays within the AL system. Again, I've never participated in it, but it seems to have been relatively popular in game stores.

[LemonDemonGirl]

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who doesn't use at least a little homebrew or houserules. Probably the only people who run things 100% by the book are those running games for official play, such as convention tournaments or Adventurer's League, and even then they'll have to make rulings in the moment that other GMs might rule differently.

What about the ones who refuse to use Homebrews and ***** about it?

[WhiteShark]

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who doesn't use at least a little homebrew or houserules. Probably the only people who run things 100% by the book are those running games for official play, such as convention tournaments or Adventurer's League, and even then they'll have to make rulings in the moment that other GMs might rule differently.

What about the ones who refuse to use Homebrews and ***** about it?

GMs don't want players bringing their own homebrew because it tends to be very poorly balanced and unthematic. GMs homebrew all the time to make stuff that fits the world.

[Tweed]

What about the ones who refuse to use Homebrews and ***** about it?

We didn't refuse to use homebrews.

We refused to use YOUR homebrews.

[Oyster Sauce]

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who doesn't use at least a little homebrew or houserules. Probably the only people who run things 100% by the book are those running games for official play, such as convention tournaments or Adventurer's League, and even then they'll have to make rulings in the moment that other GMs might rule differently.

What about the ones who refuse to use Homebrews and ***** about it?

your homebrew is just world of warcraft trolls because you have a fetish for them

[Rand]

[J1M]

Forgot to highlight the word "fantastic". It's literally right next to the other word.

Embarrassing.

[fkirenicus]

Any news on this? I am quite interested to hear if Kuntz can do something to rock the sinking WotC vessel at least a little. Their forewords and introductions of D&D 5e 2024 were utterly disgusting.

[Acrux]

Is Kuntz doing something with WotC? I haven't heard about that. I did see the other day that he's working with the group making "Knights of the Frontier Valley" as a creative consultant.

I also saw that he has a book coming out called "The Fourth Category" abiut how Gygax and Arneson created a new primary game category.

[fkirenicus]

Is Kuntz doing something with WotC? I haven't heard about that.

Well, he's not working WITH them as such... But there was this outburst. Might have been just that: only an outburst.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQzyaGcXAAA ... name=large

[WaterMage]

My opinion about edition wars. Everything not published by TSR is fanfic. 3.5e Eberron is good fanfic. Anything after it is bad fanfic. Simple as that.

[Jordy]

My opinion about edition wars. Everything not published by TSR is fanfic. 3.5e Eberron is good fanfic. Anything after it is bad fanfic. Simple as that.

All TTRPGs are the DM's fanfic really.

[UltraFan123]

My opinion about edition wars. Everything not published by TSR is fanfic. 3.5e Eberron is good fanfic. Anything after it is bad fanfic. Simple as that.

Eberron is the best setting that ever came out of 3.5 edition hands down.

The way it proudly recognized that "magic" in a fantasy setting is basically the same thing as its technology is what elevated it to me.

[WaterMage]

Sadly Eberron is the unique good setting that come out since WoTC come. All other settings, Dark Sun, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Planescape, Birthright, Mystara(...) sadly 5e become too focused in Sword Cost the most boring place in D&D verse imo.

[WaterMage]

Other thing about 3.5e.


Imo 3.5e and pf1e Casters(not only wizards) and Psions are probably the strongest in all tabletop games. Not only d&d. If we compare to 2e

• Mages require much more xp to lv up mainly at upper mid and high levels.
• no spells on lv up. If the dm don't want you to find a scroll of knock, you will not find it
• you also roll to learn spells.
• max +1 con mod
• enemy saves at high level are much better
• mr is a serious problem. Way less ways to deal with it than 3.5e Sr.
• much less spell slots
• (...)

But 2e also has its broken stuff. Is possible for a psion to learn disintegration at lv 3. Mages can only do it at lv 12 and takes the same xp to go from 1 to 11 than 11 to 12. The unique difference to the spell is the save vs death instead of vs spell. And that the psion has a backlash risk but ignores MR.

[J1M]

Other thing about 3.5e.


Imo 3.5e and pf1e Casters(not only wizards) and Psions are probably the strongest in all tabletop games. Not only d&d. If we compare to 2e

• Mages require much more xp to lv up mainly at upper mid and high levels.
• no spells on lv up. If the dm don't want you to find a scroll of knock, you will not find it
• you also roll to learn spells.
• max +1 con mod
• enemy saves at high level are much better
• mr is a serious problem. Way less ways to deal with it than 3.5e Sr.
• much less spell slots
• (...)

But 2e also has its broken stuff. Is possible for a psion to learn disintegration at lv 3. Mages can only do it at lv 12 and takes the same xp to go from 1 to 11 than 11 to 12. The unique difference to the spell is the save vs death instead of vs spell. And that the psion has a backlash risk but ignores MR.

All tabletop is quite the exaggeration.

[WaterMage]

All tabletop is quite the exaggeration.

Which tabletop has stronger wizards than 3.5e?

• GURPS? Only a God like Poseidon could for eg, in few seconds throw a tsunami into a city, summon Kraken in few seconds and go back to his divine pocket plane. Even a powerful archwizard would require hours to create a tsunami, if not days. Tsunami Is a spell which archwizards can cast multiple times per minute in pf1e.
• MtA? Spheres limits his versatility. And Paradox is a problem.
• Tremere in VtM? Again, stuff which D&D wizards can do in seconds, are complex long rituals. And disciplines can botch.
• Retroclones? Most of them are like 2E and many of them limit you to low and mid levels. Hyperborea lv cap is 12. LotFP is rarely played at mid(7+) levels. Machinations of the Space princess psion are too limited compared to 3.5e arcane/divine/psions.
• Ars Magicka? Maybe with a very generous DM
• Exalted? Maybe, only with a very generous DM

[ClosetWizard]

I respect 1 & 2E ,but have no interest in playing them. I do, however, regularly harvest lore, spells and items for my game.

3.5e is a system that definitely has the crunch I like, but I play via VTT and most VTTs make 3.5e paradoxically difficult to run because of automation making homebrewing a much more arduous task than it has to be. Again, I just steal what I want from here.

I have no opinion on 4e, it was dead before I got into the game and people generally ignore it anyway so it didn't come across my radar until a couple of years ago, and I've not read anything from it.


5e (the original 5e) is the system I'm most familiar with. It has a lot of flaws but the freedom at least means that it's the easiest to homebrew for. And over time, I've come to add so much stuff from 3/3.5e that I sometimes jokingly call my system 5.3.5. So there's that.


That's my tuppence.

EDIT: BTW, do we have any thread or anything on this site we can use for looking for games/players? because I feel like I'd appreciate having people like those on this site more than redditors to either join me in a game or, preferably, run a game so I can finally escape my ForeverDM curse.

[J1M]

I respect 1 & 2E ,but have no interest in playing them. I do, however, regularly harvest lore, spells and items for my game.

3.5e is a system that definitely has the crunch I like, but I play via VTT and most VTTs make 3.5e paradoxically difficult to run because of automation making homebrewing a much more arduous task than it has to be. Again, I just steal what I want from here.

I have no opinion on 4e, it was dead before I got into the game and people generally ignore it anyway so it didn't come across my radar until a couple of years ago, and I've not read anything from it.


5e (the original 5e) is the system I'm most familiar with. It has a lot of flaws but the freedom at least means that it's the easiest to homebrew for. And over time, I've come to add so much stuff from 3/3.5e that I sometimes jokingly call my system 5.3.5. So there's that.


That's my tuppence.

EDIT: BTW, do we have any thread or anything on this site we can use for looking for games/players? because I feel like I'd appreciate having people like those on this site more than redditors to either join me in a game or, preferably, run a game so I can finally escape my ForeverDM curse.

Look up Knights of Last Call for a community full of people who actually run games and have a DM surplus. You might have to play Pathfinder though.

[Cloharp7]

Here, if you have half an hour to spare.

[WaterMage]

Hyperborea’s 3rd Edition Player’s Manual = 250 pages
5e’s player handbook only = 320+ pages
5e fans : OSR is too complicated.

[WaterMage]

Did you guys saw that Dark Sun is probably coming back to D&D? https://media.dndbeyond.com/compendium- ... lasses.pdf

____________________



How I imagine : In the deserts of Athas, ruled and ruined by fascist sorcerer kings, you must join with a diverse cast of companions and fight fascist sorcerer kings or join a democratic progressivist city-state founded by a powerful strong woman female dwarf preserver. No half-elves because "half" is a problematic word, nor Muls. Fight for affirmative action, putting quotas for half giants in psionics schools and the Veiled Alliance. Fight for equality, where those who enforce equality are more equal than everyone else, and kill Borys, the dragon, in this level 1~6 adventure.

[Xenich]

Here, if you have half an hour to spare.

I have to say I pretty much agree with his take on it.

From the original 74 release on up to about 2nd edition, the game certainly felt the same, just minor adjustments and the like.

As he said, with 3rd edition, it was still a good game, but stopped being "D&D" in many ways, and I kind of agree. I liked 3rd, but it just didn't have that "feel" of the others and that isn't even getting into the technical arguments of their difference.

4th on, hehe... yeah... no thanks, garbage, not D&D, never was.

Like he said as well, there were a ton of games that are not D&D in name, but in their systems, yes... D&D (Castles and Crusades was one of the examples he gave and that yes, feels VERY D&D).

I also agree with this assessment about 1st being better than 2nd for similar reasons. I dislike how 2nd removed the focus on equipment management and encumbrance. It always felt stupid to play the game and people were pulling out a ton of equipment like they had a cart behind them.

"lets see... halfling thief is carrying 15 torches, a sack of grain for 4 weeks, a barrel of mead, a sack of caltrips and trap parts, 5 throwing daggers, two short swords, a crossbow and 30 bolts, 200 ft of ****, etc..." all while crawling through tight corridors in a dark dungeon... oh, and they can sneak in shadows, not making a sound, and are alert and ready to fight on any ambush...

Yep... sure... alright.