De-Girlboss 1.0 Beta — Baldur's Gate 3

[swbgtoc]

Some reasonable stats rebalance maybe? Don't think it would be hard to do.

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

[Trickster]

Some reasonable stats rebalance maybe? Don't think it would be hard to do.

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

Maybe turn them into men and men into women instead.

[swbgtoc]

Some reasonable stats rebalance maybe? Don't think it would be hard to do.

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

Maybe turn them into men and men into women instead.

viewtopic.php?p=62159-better-companions ... r-s-gate-3
But I don't really like this mod personally so I just use https://www.nexusmods.com/baldursgate3/mods/899 + respec them into more fitting classes

[Demonic Fate]

Some reasonable stats rebalance maybe? Don't think it would be hard to do.

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

Strength is just a **** stat in most editions of D&D:

- anybody that isn't melee has zero use for it
- melee/caster hybrids have options to replace strength with their spellcasting ability, and they almost always do
- for everybody else, finesse weapons are just as good as strength weapons and by pumping DEX alone you get free AC, initiative and ranged attacks

And that's without touching the silliness that is strength elixirs.

There are mods that rebalance this to various degrees, but it's WAY out of scope for this mod.

[Brother Michael]

Some reasonable stats rebalance maybe? Don't think it would be hard to do.

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

Strength is just a **** stat in most editions of D&D:

- anybody that isn't melee has zero use for it
- melee/caster hybrids have options to replace strength with their spellcasting ability, and they almost always do
- for everybody else, finesse weapons are just as good as strength weapons and by pumping DEX alone you get free AC, initiative and ranged attacks

And that's without touching the silliness that is strength elixirs.

There are mods that rebalance this to various degrees, but it's WAY out of scope for this mod.

What are some of those mods?

[Demonic Fate]

That would make them worse than they already are. Just respec them.

Strength is just a **** stat in most editions of D&D:

- anybody that isn't melee has zero use for it
- melee/caster hybrids have options to replace strength with their spellcasting ability, and they almost always do
- for everybody else, finesse weapons are just as good as strength weapons and by pumping DEX alone you get free AC, initiative and ranged attacks

And that's without touching the silliness that is strength elixirs.

There are mods that rebalance this to various degrees, but it's WAY out of scope for this mod.

What are some of those mods?

Off the top of my head there are small gameplay mods to:

- Nerf strength elixirs (duh)
- Bring initiative back to a 1d20, so high DEX (and Alert) aren't a guarantee of going first
- Make longbows use STR, so STR users are on even ground in ranged combat
- Use STR for Intimidation checks
- Nerf the 'Exotic Material' armours (medium armours with unlimited DEX bonus to AC)

For bigger mods, Rules As Written stops you from switching between ranged and melee weapon sets for free (a big source of DEX power), while Home Brew makes STR essentially twice as powerful as DEX for the purpose of damage in addition to a bunch of other stuff, including most of the above list (it's a massive ruleset mod, it basically doesn't feel like D&D anymore (which is probably the only way you can make this **** balanced)).

[Lancaster]

Is The Absolute a he, she, or it? I imagine if something were to invade your thoughts, it'd be in the form as something demonic & terrifying.

If the idea is to change her feminine voice I think it's a waste of time. The Absolute is fine as it is. Illithids are like bugs, all males with one queen.

If The Absolute change gets released with the De-Girlboss pak, it'll be an optional download.

[Lubuu]

This is a necessary mod. Every important frontier guard we interact with, every local clan leader, circus owner, church director, investigation chief, Flaming Fist officers, and Harper scout commander turns out to be a woman. It does feel very forced. Thank you for taking care of this!

Here are some observations that I hope will be useful:

• Jaheira: She poses no issue for me. As mentioned earlier, she’s a loving mother, a woman capable of making decisions, but more importantly, she has the humility to let the player take the lead. She handles criticism well (Geraldus) and has a strong sense of humor. She is a real character, not an ideological product.

• Haruspia: Vicious, deceitful, manipulative, working under Dror Ragzlin. No ideological stereotype and works well as a character.

• Minthara: Cruel, ambitious, evil—but literally an abused woman from a violent environment whom she adapted to, not to survive but to rule. She works under a hobgoblin, under Ketheric. The No Alphabets mod completely erases her backstory with Orin, which, in my opinion, makes the character more interesting: she’s a dominant woman because she reproduces the violence she has suffered and that her environment demands. Again, I see no ideological stereotype here, just logical consistency.

• Z’rell: This character should be male. She’s an orc who is meant to be sadistic, threatening, and imposing, including physically (and in fact, physically she is male). Her soft voice undermines the effect they were going for. Her threats and sexual innuendos would work better for a man using rape as a weapon for domination, intimidation, and control. A shame.

• The Warden: glorified Karen.

• Orin: Hilariously badly written, and I’m not cruel enough to ask anyone to fix it. One word: cringe. If I had to apply the term “girlboss” to anyone, it would probably be her.

• Lassandra: Very forced and utterly ridiculous. I think this character should be a priority.

• Mol… Orphaned kids, not to be taken seriously as far as I’m concerned. The main issue is that a little girl wants to make a pact with the devil and pretends to teach us life lessons when corrected, especially after the player saved her gang in Act 1—but this has nothing to do with her gender; it would be just as ridiculous if it were a little boy.
Finally, if I had to point to an NPC in this group who might be considered an ideological product, it would probably be Arabella: a little thief in Act 1, deified in Act 2, and a bandit slayer in the sewers in Act 3. Even then, changing her gender wouldn’t solve the problem; her development is unjustified and seems highlighted simply because she’s a little girl—but that’s my interpretation, as I don’t really understand what they were aiming for here (maybe a future replacement for Thaniel?).

• Keene Nine-Fingers: An established character, and I find her rather feminine in the way she manages her guild. The character’s homosexuality is annoying, though. I don’t think this needs to be changed.

• Characters like Florrick and Korilla don’t bother me.

The girlboss effect is amplified by the near absence of inspiring or interesting men:

• Wyll: A rather generic hero who could have worked, but he’s constantly held on a leash and humbled by Mizora.
• Gale: A simp.
• Astarion: Needs no comment.
• Halsin: The only male character who stands out (again, taking No Alphabets into account; otherwise, no comment).
• Minsc: Comic relief, though rather amusing.
• Duke Ravenguard: Nonexistent in terms of personality, even when freed from the Absolute.

In my opinion, the Flaming Fist officers and the Harpers are the biggest offenders, and the game would feel much more credible if there were roughly a 70/30 ratio in favor of men. The idea wouldn’t be to completely remove women either; in my view, it’s still fantasy, as long as no strange ideological agenda is being pushed. That’s my take on that.

[Lancaster]

This is a necessary mod. Every important frontier guard we interact with, every local clan leader, circus owner, church director, investigation chief, Flaming Fist officers, and Harper scout commander turns out to be a woman. It does feel very forced. Thank you for taking care of this!

Here are some observations that I hope will be useful:

• Jaheira: She poses no issue for me. As mentioned earlier, she’s a loving mother, a woman capable of making decisions, but more importantly, she has the humility to let the player take the lead. She handles criticism well (Geraldus) and has a strong sense of humor. She is a real character, not an ideological product.

• Haruspia: Vicious, deceitful, manipulative, working under Dror Ragzlin. No ideological stereotype and works well as a character.

• Minthara: Cruel, ambitious, evil—but literally an abused woman from a violent environment whom she adapted to, not to survive but to rule. She works under a hobgoblin, under Ketheric. The No Alphabets mod completely erases her backstory with Orin, which, in my opinion, makes the character more interesting: she’s a dominant woman because she reproduces the violence she has suffered and that her environment demands. Again, I see no ideological stereotype here, just logical consistency.

• Z’rell: This character should be male. She’s an orc who is meant to be sadistic, threatening, and imposing, including physically (and in fact, physically she is male). Her soft voice undermines the effect they were going for. Her threats and sexual innuendos would work better for a man using rape as a weapon for domination, intimidation, and control. A shame.

• The Warden: glorified Karen.

• Orin: Hilariously badly written, and I’m not cruel enough to ask anyone to fix it. One word: cringe. If I had to apply the term “girlboss” to anyone, it would probably be her.

• Lassandra: Very forced and utterly ridiculous. I think this character should be a priority.

• Mol… Orphaned kids, not to be taken seriously as far as I’m concerned. The main issue is that a little girl wants to make a pact with the devil and pretends to teach us life lessons when corrected, especially after the player saved her gang in Act 1—but this has nothing to do with her gender; it would be just as ridiculous if it were a little boy.
Finally, if I had to point to an NPC in this group who might be considered an ideological product, it would probably be Arabella: a little thief in Act 1, deified in Act 2, and a bandit slayer in the sewers in Act 3. Even then, changing her gender wouldn’t solve the problem; her development is unjustified and seems highlighted simply because she’s a little girl—but that’s my interpretation, as I don’t really understand what they were aiming for here (maybe a future replacement for Thaniel?).

• Keene Nine-Fingers: An established character, and I find her rather feminine in the way she manages her guild. The character’s homosexuality is annoying, though. I don’t think this needs to be changed.

• Characters like Florrick and Korilla don’t bother me.

The girlboss effect is amplified by the near absence of inspiring or interesting men:

• Wyll: A rather generic hero who could have worked, but he’s constantly held on a leash and humbled by Mizora.
• Gale: A simp.
• Astarion: Needs no comment.
• Halsin: The only male character who stands out (again, taking No Alphabets into account; otherwise, no comment).
• Minsc: Comic relief, though rather amusing.
• Duke Ravenguard: Nonexistent in terms of personality, even when freed from the Absolute.

In my opinion, the Flaming Fist officers and the Harpers are the biggest offenders, and the game would feel much more credible if there were roughly a 70/30 ratio in favor of men. The idea wouldn’t be to completely remove women either; in my view, it’s still fantasy, as long as no strange ideological agenda is being pushed. That’s my take on that.

The minor Fists will likely be the first ones addressed. Minimal pronoun changes, and they are infested with GB's.

[swbgtoc]

• Orin: Hilariously badly written, and I’m not cruel enough to ask anyone to fix it. One word: cringe. If I had to apply the term “girlboss” to anyone, it would probably be her.

Orin being a mentally ill ****** is kinda the point. Everyone hates her and wants the Dark Urge to kill her and reclaim his place as the Chosen of Bhaal.
She's not a girlboss at all, she's just a regular US woman under her average prescribed cocktail of drugs. Minus the obesity of course.

In my opinion, the Flaming Fist officers and the Harpers are the biggest offenders, and the game would feel much more credible if there were roughly a 70/30 ratio in favor of men. The idea wouldn’t be to completely remove women either; in my view, it’s still fantasy, as long as no strange ideological agenda is being pushed. That’s my take on that.

I can't take any woman in a military/police force seriously, they instantly break my immersion. I'd prefer seeing them removed completely personally.

[Tangerine]

70/30 ratio in favor of men

Even 70/30 is way too high. Women in the US military is under 20%, and drops below 10% if you don't include ******** jobs like admin, personnel, and finance.

[Demonic Fate]

70/30 ratio in favor of men

Even 70/30 is way too high. Women in the US military is under 20%, and drops below 10% if you don't include ******** jobs like admin, personnel, and finance.

Magic isn't a thing IRL, though. We have guns, but you still need strength to use them well, they're not magic wands.

Flaming Fist women soldiers are dumb, but the occasional female FF cleric or wizard is fine. In Act 3 you also meet a few desk jockeys who could easily be women (or gnomes for that matter, but that's an issue for RR).

[Xenich]

The novels of the "Seven Sisters" where the goddess of magic inhabited the body of a human woman to conceive children with a mortal man was Greenwood's barely disguised cuckquean fetish.
Just one of his many depraved kinks.

Elminster becoming a girl and sleeping around... Totally not a self-insert.

Drow was the dumping ground for a lot of the smut / fetish **** though. Matriarchal society of goth leather drow who have demon rape rituals and force males into sex change rituals.


Remember when Dungeon and Dragons was about swords and sorcery and bad guys being defeated up by hero's?

I never thought "this" type of gaming would become the standard, it was always a joke about some really "weird" types and sexual deviants, but here we are... /sigh

[Tangerine]

70/30 ratio in favor of men

Even 70/30 is way too high. Women in the US military is under 20%, and drops below 10% if you don't include ******** jobs like admin, personnel, and finance.

Magic isn't a thing IRL, though. We have guns, but you still need strength to use them well, they're not magic wands.

Flaming Fist women soldiers are dumb, but the occasional female FF cleric or wizard is fine. In Act 3 you also meet a few desk jockeys who could easily be women (or gnomes for that matter, but that's an issue for RR).

Magic isn't real, but women are real and women don't go into military service without significant benefits being afforded.

[swbgtoc]

but women are real

You got any studies to back that up?

[Tangerine]

but women are real

You got any studies to back that up?

Human history.

Edit: Alternatively

[Mortadela_Viva]

but women are real

You got any studies to back that up?

Fell for the Mossad propaganda

[Cipher]

This is a necessary mod. Every important frontier guard we interact with, every local clan leader, circus owner, church director, investigation chief, Flaming Fist officers, and Harper scout commander turns out to be a woman. It does feel very forced. Thank you for taking care of this!

Here are some observations that I hope will be useful:


• Orin: Hilariously badly written, and I’m not cruel enough to ask anyone to fix it. One word: cringe. If I had to apply the term “girlboss” to anyone, it would probably be her.

• Keene Nine-Fingers: An established character, and I find her rather feminine in the way she manages her guild. The character’s homosexuality is annoying, though. I don’t think this needs to be changed.

Orin: That's the point. She was groomed as a big shot but she is too unhinged and crazy to amount to anything if it wasn't for the cult.

Nine-fingers: See, THIS is an actual girl boss. Talks a big game but why? She is a rogue. Why would anyone respect her in the underworld? Why would thugs follow a scrawny hag with no magic or powers? She is also really stupid. If it wasn't for the plot armor granted to her by WotC she wouldn't be alive. An "established character" according to who? WotC? No. This is why you don't see women leading street gangs. It would be one thing if she was the widow of a very well established and respected crime lord. Then you could argue that they follow the old "donna" out of respect for their fallen leader. But how are we supposed to believe she just started from nothing and now has control over the underbelly of Baldur's Gate?

Basically, Nine-fingers is what Mol will be when she grows up, as presented by the writers. If she was a powerful sorceress or something at least one could argue she has a "bigger stick". As is, she is only an "established" crime boss because WotC said so. That's the definition of a girlboss character. A woman in a position of power she didn't earned and that has the respect of her underlings because the writers say so but with any amount of logic she would be removed from power in 5 seconds, nevermind the fact that she wouldn't even be there in the first place.

Compare to Orin, who actually has powers and even a "slayer" form. She could actually enforce obedience under the threat of bodily harm and death. She can shapeshift to catch you when you least expect it and teleport out of nowhere to flee if she is outfoxed. I am not going to bat and claim Orin is a well written character but at least she is a somewhat competent villainess with powers to match.

[Lubuu]

I think you guys have an interesting perspective regarding Orin, and it’s true I didn’t see it that way. Probably because being a competent chosen of Bhaal would imply having a certain degree of resistance against the darker urges. The issue is that, as the Dark Urge, we are constantly encouraged to give in compulsively – we are rewarded with artifacts and new powers. In the end, I don’t see much difference between a Dark Urge who embraces every impulse and Orin herself. Still, it’s an interesting angle to view her character that way.

As for Nine-Fingers, I would argue that in the context of BG3 her legitimacy comes from the way she protects her guild. She doesn’t have the raw power to enforce her will, but perhaps she has earned the respect of key members like Uktar? That could explain why she maintains control.

But I digress – I personally don’t see her as undermining the game’s credibility in the same way that the overrepresentation of female Flaming Fist or Harper officers does.
In general, I tend to avoid real-world analogies like quotas in the U.S. army or things like that, because I feel they are irrelevant in a fantasy setting.

[swbgtoc]

I think you guys have an interesting perspective regarding Orin, and it’s true I didn’t see it that way. Probably because being a competent chosen of Bhaal would imply having a certain degree of resistance against the darker urges. The issue is that, as the Dark Urge, we are constantly encouraged to give in compulsively – we are rewarded with artifacts and new powers. In the end, I don’t see much difference between a Dark Urge who embraces every impulse and Orin herself. Still, it’s an interesting angle to view her character that way.

Unless you go full murderhobo I'd say Orin is still worse. But even then people respect you because they remember the Durge of before the amnesia. And it is said he was more reasonable, capable of cooperating and focused on efficient murders over artistic creations. To be honest I'm a bit surprised Bhaal prefers our way over Orin's but well.
I haven't tried going full murderhobo but I imagine this doesn't change Gortash or the cultists reaction to you.

[Lubuu]

I think you guys have an interesting perspective regarding Orin, and it’s true I didn’t see it that way. Probably because being a competent chosen of Bhaal would imply having a certain degree of resistance against the darker urges. The issue is that, as the Dark Urge, we are constantly encouraged to give in compulsively – we are rewarded with artifacts and new powers. In the end, I don’t see much difference between a Dark Urge who embraces every impulse and Orin herself. Still, it’s an interesting angle to view her character that way.

Unless you go full murderhobo I'd say Orin is still worse. But even then people respect you because they remember the Durge of before the amnesia. And it is said he was more reasonable, capable of cooperating and focused on efficient murders over artistic creations. To be honest I'm a bit surprised Bhaal prefers our way over Orin's but well.
I haven't tried going full murderhobo but I imagine this doesn't change Gortash or the cultists reaction to you.

No, unfortunately the NPCs react the same way. And the Evil Durge ending plays out exactly as you would expect for Orin — without spoiling anything.
The only ones who react quite negatively, to be honest, are the companions — they all prefer some degree of restraint, Minthara included.

[Spacekiddo]

They respected Dark Urge more because hes the real Mastermind imo. He came up with the plan for the plot literally. If it wasn't for that stupid ****** Orin he would have likely successed and killed/dominted all the girlbosses of the city.

He was also not always going murderhobo from what we can tell. He had alligeances with other evils such as Bane's followers. It really makes me wish we had gotten him as an Antagonist. He sounds way cooler as a character than those 3 tards with their netherstones.

[DecadeRiptide]

What does this mod actually do? Just replaces the voices of the characters or what?

[A-Kira]

Maybe late to the party but I saw you had a pretty lengthy discussion about gith girlbosses, I'd say don't waste your time on giths, none of them are a "girlboss" because not a single one of them is even a woman.

What I mean: very rare gith female have a potential to be able to lay eggs and they are selected early one, something akin to bees queens
Laezel and every other gith girl we see are a warrior kind. They can't have children, their body didn't really different from men in terms of physical performance and etc.

They are asexual race pretty much

[Lancaster]

What does this mod actually do? Just replaces the voices of the characters or what?

There is an excessive amount of women in positions of authority, and rolls such as guards. We are changing both voice and gender.

[orinEsque]

Maybe late to the party but I saw you had a pretty lengthy discussion about gith girlbosses, I'd say don't waste your time on giths, none of them are a "girlboss" because not a single one of them is even a woman.

What I mean: very rare gith female have a potential to be able to lay eggs and they are selected early one, something akin to bees queens
Laezel and every other gith girl we see are a warrior kind. They can't have children, their body didn't really different from men in terms of physical performance and etc.

They are asexual race pretty much

That's artificial though. And if there's no male female diff, there shouldn't be such a skew towards women. I would expect a 50-50 split.

[Lancaster]

WIP

[CheesusCrust]

WIP

finally..... men in the game

[orinEsque]

WIP

Isn't the woman shouting his name all shrill his lover? The one weeping at his grave? I can't remember. If so you might wanna keep her as is. Otherwise I'll have to make No alphabet DGB

[Lancaster]

WIP

Isn't the woman shouting his name all shrill his lover? The one weeping at his grave? I can't remember. If so you might wanna keep her as is. Otherwise I'll have to make No alphabet DGB

Originally, yes. I just felt their was a lack of same sex relationships in the BG3. JK, it has been addressed. This early work that has already been for the most part, scrapped. The voice will likely stay.